Friday, September 16, 2011

Fullbore Friday

Of course.


Defying orders and tempting fate, Marine Cpl. Dakota Meyer charged five times in a Humvee into heavy gunfire in the darkness of an Afghanistan valley to rescue comrades under attack from Taliban insurgents.

On Thursday, Meyer was presented with the Medal of Honor, the nation’s highest military award, by President Obama.

Meyer’s courage during the six-hour ambush and firefight saved the lives of 36 people, both Americans and Afghans. He killed at least eight Taliban insurgents. Firing from a gun turret on top of the Humvee driven by a fellow Marine, he provided cover for his team, allowing many to escape likely death.

He was defying orders from his commanders, who told him to stay back. The kill zone, they said, was too dangerous. But the young corporal, just 21 at the time, knew his friends were trapped that early morning in September 2009.

“In Sgt. Dakota Meyer, we see the best of a generation that has served with distinction through a decade of war,” Obama said during a ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

Meyer, later promoted to sergeant and now out of the Marines, is the third living recipient and the first Marine to be awarded the Medal of Honor for actions in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The modest, soft-spoken 23-year-old now lives in his home state of Kentucky, working construction in the tiny town of Greensburg.
Check in on Monday - I will have related thoughts; but for now - ponder.

134 comments:

Jerry Hendrix said...

I am so awed by this young man, and so grateful that other members of the MOH Society are reaching out to him now to help him deal with the events, the sense of guilt he feels, and the publicity that comes with the Blue Max.  Its good to know that our nation still produces humble greatness.

LT B said...

I first read about him in Bing West's book. Thoroughly impressed with him. The other part of the story is the captain out there may have not been awarded an award for valor as he blasted the chain of command for restrictive ROE. The Marines lost a good one when Dakota left active duty.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

If the American people could see those young Marines, and the courage they display daily, when they leave the wire to undertake their dangerous and deadly work, day after day, they would have an entirely new appreciation for our Armed Forces.  Dakota Meyer is a shining example of that selfless courage, toughness, and determination.  But he isn't as far from the mean as one might think. 

Small correction on the article.  Sgt Meyer is the first LIVING Marine to be awarded the Medal of Honor for Iraq and Afghanistan.  But he is not the first Marine to be awarded.  LCpl Jason Dunham was awarded posthumously for actions that took place in Al Anbar Province in April of 2004.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Old men, far from the front, must caveat any comment on the actions of younger folk in action against the enemy.  None the less, (and I could well have it wrong)...

The incident, from what I can determine, incorporated a disgraceful failure in command by higher and supporting commands, which deprived the officer in command at the scene of the tools he needed for proper tactical response to the situation on the ground.

Two very junior marine NCO's, to whom Semper Fidelis was simply how you walked through every day, saved what could be saved by courage, and skill, and complete disregard for the enemy threat, and at times, the orders of some of the officers present.

God may have helped them, for they could do no other. They chose to defend the right, and their comrades, and to dread naught.  They lived, and succeeded, more than the circumstances would seemingly possibly allow.

So absolutely, full bore..."of course".   

The sergeant (MOH) and his driver (Navy Cross) humble us all.

There is more to this...

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"If I were fierce and bald, and short of breath,
I would live with Scarlet Majors at the Base..."

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Actually, I live with a sharp tongued strong willed woman whom I value above rubies, far from the base, and I have almost all my hair.

Fierce and short of breath, guilty as charged.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Er, I do believe I meant those people to whom you refer that forbade the Sergeant from entering the kill zone.  And those who have consistently rejected what I do believe are recommendations to living service members for award of the Medal.  Particularly in Iraq, as that war was not "right" in the eyes of those currently in charge.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

But where do you get off having all your hair?  Mine fell out before I was 21. 

It spoiled my good looks.  8-)

DeltaBravo said...

May the rest of his life be one of true peace hope and love.

GBS said...

During the lead-in to the ceremony, I heard the Fox talking heads make passing reference to investigations and letters of reprimand connected with this incident.  Obvously, SGT Meyer isn't the target, but does anyone here know more about that?

DeltaBravo said...

Grass doesn't grow on a busy street, URR.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Or a bowling ball, either, DB.

Benjamin Walthrop said...

There is more to this story that may or may not come out.  Here is a link with additional background:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/09/military-ganjgal-medal-of-honor-will-swenson-case-alive-091511w/

cdrsalamander said...

<span>Check in Monday (front porch that goes for you too) - we'll talk about it then.  For now - lets focus on SGT Meyer.</span>

sid said...

Me thinks the last thing this guy wants is to have focus shined his way!

I hope he can cope with this fame.

Salty Gator said...

Sgt Meyer only accepted the honor so that he could memorialize his 4 brothers who died.  His condition to the President with accepting the honor was POTUS discussing the departed.

Sgt Meyer has also lobbied extensively for the army Captain to be similarly recognized.  The CPT resigned his commission soon after the incident, and was allowed to leave undecorated.

Salty Gator said...

Just goes to show you what a special man the good Sgt is.  Despite his comparatively junior rank, he took his responsibility as an NCO to heart, and as a fantastic leader of Marines, seized the initiative to do the right thing, largely without support.

I'm not a Marine, just a former Gator SWO, but, man.....Semper Fidelis, Sgt.

I hope that he gets to live whatever life he dreams of, and that his fellow Marines look out for him.  A lot of pressure is going to be riding on this young man's shoulders.

Salty Gator said...

DB, that explains some phenomena I encountered on liberty in Split, Croatia.

Andy said...

Where do we get such men...

cdrsalamander said...

BW,
Please read my direction and guidance below.  This is not the time to bring this up.  Come back Monday.

cdrsalamander said...

Does anyone read my D&G?

ewok40k said...

They do volunteer themselves... as heroes usually do.

virgil xenophon said...

Just a good ole boy from flyover country in Kentucky--you know--one of those "bitter people" who "cling to their guns and their religion."  No savage irony in witnessing the author of those words being forced to award the nations highest award for valor to somebody he otherwise actually congenitally scorns..

cdrsalamander said...

I just realized how many times I have heard OTHER people say that ......  O:-)

John said...

A true hero, and like most, he merely feels he was doing his job, and does not feel like he belongs on the pedastal.

However, he does, and I salute him with total awe and humility and gratitude for his wervice.

Even more prasieworthy than his bravery under fire is his loyalty to his comrades and placing their memory and recognition above his own.

Sgt. Meyer is a shining example of the greatness of our country that survives in many of its people, most often small town and rural America, despite the decay and demise of the political nd punditry classes.

He is a concrete worker now, and I bet that he puts just as much effort into getting that job done promply and properly as he has everything else.  These are the people who make us great.

And, I join him in saluting his fallen comrades.

Benjamin Walthrop said...

R. K.

Surfcaster said...

Somehow just clicking "like" rings both hollow and insufficient. Not a knock whatsoever, just not enough.

andrewdb said...

It somehow doesn't seem quit right that the sign-in page on AKO this morning showed Army SGT Petrey and his MOH award.

cdrsalamander said...

You don't read either.

Bubba said...

Guest,

Please don't post links that are behind paywalls.  


Don't waste my time by sending me to an article I can't read. It borders on spam.

Bubba said...

It only took three hours to turn a post about a man's valor under fire into a rant about Obama.  Nice.  I’m sure Dakota Meyer’s mom would be pleased that you chose this occasion to point out that the Kenyan Communist sleeper agent is a jerk.

Very classy, and right on point.  

UltimaRatioRegis said...

The rant was Candidate Obama's, Bubba. 

If you are uncomfortable with hearing BHO's own words turned back at him, give the guy a call and tell him not to insult law-abiding and taxpaying Americans when speaking to a national audience.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Words fail me convey my feelings about the actions of SGT Fanning.  WELL DONE, SGT FANNING!

C-dore 14 said...

Bing West's book, <span>The Wrong War</span>, includes an excellent account of the battle and Sgt Meyer's role in it.

Byron said...

It's pronounced, "Cane-tuck-ee"...that's if you can get get away from that rotgut Babancourt, you old drunk :)

Byron said...

Oh.My.God...DB, that was the sweetest knife in the guts I've ever seen performed by a lady! 8-)

Byron said...

Dakota Meyer understood something to his core: Loyalty to the King, Courage in battle, protect the innocent. The Warriors Creed. To the bone...to the bone. And yes, go back to your green hills and mountains of Kentucky, far from the sand and the snow and the blood and the horror. You've earned your rest now, Sergeant.

Steel City said...

Any chance that Navy can take a mulligan on the naming of LPD-26?  I hope in my lifetime that I get to see the commissioning of USS DAKOTA MEYER...in a ship starting with L and not followed by Charlie Sierra.

DeltaBravo said...

I wasn't trying to be mean, Byron!  :(   URR is a busy thinker.  You can tell.

That's not to say that gentlemen who have full heads of hair don't think. 

And me... I'm just partial to eyes myself.   Hair schmair.  Most military guys shave themselves pert near bald anyway.  Makes the eyes more stunning in my book.

And character is what counts most... the topic of this post.  Meyer is a beautiful man with USMC regulation cut or no.   That's what is most attractive of all... stellar character.

Just gonna go sit and sip my iced tea and hush up now.  Sigh.  

pk said...

well said byron, very very very well said.

C

Anonymous said...

"Loyalty to the King"?

All the rest that follows is alrigy, but loyalty to a "King" is not what this brave Marine exhibited (thank goodness).  He was loyal to his fellow soldiers be they American or Afghan.  There were a number of brave soldiers in the fight that day, and I'm pretty sure that none of them were thinking about loyalty to any sort of "King."  Meyer's own actions show that misplaced idea of loyalty to be false.  More to follow on Monday I presume.

Benjamin Walthrop said...

That was me.  Damn JS-Kit.  

The second sentence should read:

All the rest that follows is ALRIGHT, but loyal to a "King" is not what this brave Marine exhibited (thank goodness).

UltimaRatioRegis said...

She's right, you know, Byron.  Lots of thoughts spinning around in this busy head of mine. 

inhale.  Exhale.  Inhale again.  Blink your eyes.  Sometimes it gets so confusing.

Byron said...

Those words are ancient...but the point is the same. The "King" can be any head of state, and was not meant to be a jab at POTUS. All service members do take an oath, do they not? And the highest member in that chain of command is the NCA, who is also POTUS, correct?

Byron said...

Actually, I got that from an author I favor, John Ringo, who writes both action and military sci-fi. All of his books include the soldiers poet, Kipling. Ringo himself was Airborne, and knows about soldiering. In all of his books, the concept of courage and duty is a strong theme. Probably why I read everything he writes...

Benjamin Walthrop said...

My oath is to the Constitution which is a pact between the people of the United States that have chosen (of their own free will)  to be governed under those conditions.  The words may be ancient, and there is a very good reason for that.  I know of no one in the service in the United States that would believe loyalty to any king represent motivation behind the action of SGT Meyer's.  I get what you're saying, but words matter as the host of this space so frequently points out.  Ultimately I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that an oath to the Constitution transcends any individual commitment to any "King" regardless of political stripe (or rank for that matter).  It's an oath to the people of this great Nation.

Salty Gator said...

Bw...splitting hairs and sucking the oxygen out of a good post again.  Shipmate, everyone uses the phrase "King and Country".  It doesn't mean King George or even Queen Elizabeth.  It refers to "sovereign" and your countrymen.  In the case of a republic, the sovereign is the body politic--the polis--the citizenry.  In a monarchy, it is the monarch.  Sheesh.

Salty Gator said...

Bubba, the point is germane.  The president gave a very good speech and presided over a very reserved yet motivating ceremony.  But he needs to remember WHERE WE FIND MEN LIKE THESE.  They are not just morphed out of clay at Paris Island or MCRD San Diego.  Sure, Marines can do a lot with just anyone, but they can do MIRACLES with fantastic stock like Sgt Meyer.  And yeah, I am a little tired of POTUS and everyone else calling him Dakota...what, are you guys his drinkin buddies now?

bistromathematician said...

Oh horshsh@t. Nobody in this country joining the armed services has taken oath to a king. She proved her bonifides. Ignorance, toujours les ignorance. (affirmative action?, ignorance? sheer utter stupidity?) Your guess is as good as our host's.

bistromathematician said...

No Byron.  In so far as officers are concerned our oath is to the constitution and there is no mention whatsoever to the President. There's no king, no X, no president, no fuhrer.

DeltaBravo said...

You're just herding cats, you know.  Aren't you used to it yet?
*DONT_KNOW*

Scott said...

True bravey.  My only questions are: 1. Whay didn't the driver receive the medal also? 2. What the hell is up with the Marines standing by while their men get slaughtered?  Civilians casualties versus Marines and soldiers?  Something is wrong with the SITREP.  Thes men are brave, but what about those who stood by?  This bothers me.

Benjamin Walthrop said...

I'd love to hear Byron himself defend his own turn of phrase.  Meyer was defending no king.  He was defending his countrymen.  BZ to him.

bistromathematician said...

You assign malignant motives to those who serve with these who serve and banish the idea that comes with proportion. I'm  not a fan of proportion. Heroism kind of strikes out on it's own outside the US armed forces-within, it is like a blanket and most draw it close when they're on the field. Just how one apportions the blanket is politics and rather unfortuantely disgraceful leadership at the battalion and brigade level drives awards like this away.
In the other wars we lost more than a thousand soldiers/month/week. I'd say heroically. It must be hard for the pentaweenies to accept that men or women could be awarded the top national honor for such small war numbers. The bravery remains the same but,
yeah, I think regiment, brigade and division are fools. Toss in the Army commanders.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Proportionality? 

"Now, philanthropists may easily imagine there is a skilful method of disarming and overcoming an enemy without causing great bloodshed.... However plausible this may appear, still it is an error which must be extirpated; for in such dangerous things as war, the errors which proceed from a spirit of benevolence are just the worst. As the use of physical power to the utmost extent by no means excludes the co-operation of the intelligence, it follows that he who uses force unsparingly, must obtain a superiority if his adversary does not act likewise."

KvC

Byron said...

Sigh...you guys just suck all the life out of a descriptive phrase. Did I mean, "King" literally? Of course not. We don't have kings anymore. IF, on the other hand, you exchange "Constitution" or "United States" for "king", it ends up the same. The phrase is old...like, back to the days of chivalry. The sentiment, on the other hand, is the same. So loosen your belts, have a beer, and get a life. I was paying an honor to one hell of a warrior, NOT making any sort of political statement.

Benjamin Walthrop said...

That's a reasonable defense Byron.  Thanks.  Bistro, I can speak for myself as well.  Meyer's likely did what had to be done to save his fellow Marines and Afghan counterparts.  His valor is inspiring.  That said, words still matter, and I suspect he was doing it for his fellow soldiers (as he ignored his seniors orders). I've talked enough of things I don't truly understand.  Thanks for the Yuengling.

CWO3 (Ret) Mike Roach said...

His single-minded focus, certainly with little to no regard for his personal safety, in rounding up the warriors he thought he was responsible for speaks to the core of what the Marine Corps is all about. He deserves his spot in the USMC Hall of Fame. Unbelievable.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Sometimes I am obtuse for humorous effect.  The rest of the time it just comes natcherly. Like my low cholesterol reading.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Fortunately you retained your sweet boyish nature. Until your next birthday. Since then you've relied on raw charm.

Anonymous said...

For Fanning, please read Meyer.

pk said...

thats ok b. many of us are losing the silver plating on our tongues even though we have time now to reflect and rewrite.

C

LT B said...

I did that once too.  DOH!  Sorry SGT. 

LT B said...

Excellent book, sir!  I am a HUGE Bing West fan.  He can draw the tactical to the strategic in his books and has the professional chops to see the connections.  I wondered if West's accounting of the event and his connections in the Corps didn't help this engagement get the viewing from those that matter, vice being swept under the rug.

LT B said...

One thing that is lost, maybe is the "boy" that became the "man."  He was a boy, big heart, took care of others, but mischievous.  Played sports, didn't read poetry.  Men such as this are raised in an atmosphere where testosterone is not considered a poison.  Kids raised where there isn't a clutching of the pearls when mischief occurs, but right and wrong is taught, solid backing and teaching then sending them on their way into the world.  Men like this more and more are coming from the country, the south, and more so away from the touchy feely, dodgeball-banning cities/communities.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

It isn't lost, it is intentionally ignored, LT B.  The kind of rough and tumble kid who Sgt Meyer was, and probably was friends with, is abhorrent to the Femi-Nazis and the GLBT cabal on the far-left.  They are far too similar to the culture Patsy Schroeder vowed to "destroy"(and then used her position on DACOWITS to do just that). 

Today's ultimate young man is a dreadlocked, knitted-hat wearing skinny man-woman with shabby clothes, "Earth First", "Meat is Murder", peace sign, and Obama stickers all over his Prius.  I mean, watch the commercials, the TV shows for adolescents, magazine ads, Hollywood. 

These little asexual p*ssies make Maynard G. Krebs look like Charlton Heston.

Salty Gator said...

Bistro, si vous voudraissez un lecon en francais, je le vous peut donner.

Bistro, if you would like a lesson in french, I can give you one.

Anonymous said...

Easy, mates--

Google:  Bing West Wall Street Journal

Take the first link.  Not so hard, and worth your time.

cdrsalamander said...

... and worth all of you to read my D&G on the topic.

sid said...

Bubba...

Not defending him putting the link up...

But be advised that the WSJ "teases" with putting articles up for free, and I guess if there are enough hits showing demand, then they put it behind their paywall. 

Its happened to several I've linked in the past....

JAV said...

It wasn't the Marines standing by, their support was an Army unit that left them hanging. I'm sure CDR S will have the gory details on monday.

C-dore 14 said...

@ Guest, Thanks for the lead...it took me past the "paywall".

@ CDR S, I don't think that reading the WSJ article now will "steal the march" on your Monday post.  It gave me additional insight into Cpl Meyer's character and heroism.  To quote Bing West, "Men do not suddenly acquire unshakable determination to face almost certain death."

C-dore 14 said...

@ LT B, Bing West was OSD(ISA) during my first DC tour and was well respected by the Navy personnel who worked for and with him.  I've read all of his Iraq/AFG books and plan to read <span>The Village</span> the next time I go on a Vietnam "tear" (i'm reading WW I memoirs now).

C-dore 14 said...

@BW, Although there's more to it than that, you're right about <span>part</span> of the reason that Sgt Meyer did it, "...for the person to his right and his left."  Great quote by him on an ABC news interview the other night saying that he went back to rescue the Afghan troops because they were part of his platoon too.

pk said...

monday
monday
monday

C

pk said...

Surf:

i think that johns' words below starting with " A true hero,...."

might helppyour problem.

C

pk said...

where do we get them????

they come walking down the street of "clinger town" and step into the recruiting office on their way to glory one tuesday afternoon.

C

LT B said...

I am gearing up to deploy and the Villiage is on my list.  The VSO guy at work gave me a freaking list of books.  I need to get myNook/ Kindle pronto!  :)

Surfcaster said...

Oh, I whole heartedly agree. Not a problem, just that it is not and never is, enough.

Anonymous said...

Can't go a day without your infatuation with the gay.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Actually, guest, I never used the word "gay"

So I suppose infatuation is in the eye (or other places) of the beholder, innit?

cdrsalamander said...

For the love of Pete, all that is good and wholesome, honor, country, puppy kisses and kitty noses ..... can we have one post without commenting in some way on who someone prefers to spend quality time with or their private predilictions? 

This is a FbF - of all things. About a Marine MOH - of all things.

Please; context, place, and focus.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

The original string of discussion was about the kind of society raises such heroes as Sgt Meyer, and whether the intentional feminizing of the American male will make such men increasingly rare. 

I do believe my point to LT B was a valid one.  If you don't, then delete it.

cdrsalamander said...

No, I'm not deleting anyone.  You didn't lie, cheat, steal, or call the host a Nancy-boy - so all is well. 

It is just ... this is a FbF.  MOH. It's like talking about your vacation to Ibiza at a funeral.  Sure, you can do it .. but ... maybe it is just me.

C-dore 14 said...

@Scott, Read either of Bing West's accounts and you'll understand why the driver wasn't awarded the MOH.  He did, however, receive the Navy Cross.

pk said...

Lets see: Meyer LPD xx  now theres a ship name the marines will respect and the sailors will work with.

its got a large stern where they can write the name in letters large enough for low lifes to read easily kind of like the spruance the John Hancock (large across the stern in script and well cared for).

only thing better would be on the flat end of an LHA.

(but how would we ever be able to make a port call in Kentucky with the thing?)

C

pk said...

its an endorsement of the prayer

"God, don't let me f%^k up today." 

c

cdrsalamander said...

Well ... forget Monday's planned post, I just deleted it.  I'll do something else along the same lines.

LT B said...

Phib,
   Are you throwing a bit of a fit?  :)   

BTW, SGT Myer will be on Letterman this week.  I think Monday.

LT B said...

And 60 Minutes tonight.  I can tolerate their "reporting" to see his interview.

Anonymous said...

I guess you don't know what GLBT stands for then.  You shouldn't use abbreviations that you don't understand.

Salty Gator said...

I want to click like on B's fit comment, but don't want to seem disrespectful.  I understand Phib's desire to keep the conversation on PIM, and to that end I understand the constant usage of rhumb lines; HOWEVER, some good conversation comes out of our tangents.

Phib, the country is in a bad place right now.  It is hard to stand down from GQ...and even when we do, we stay at Condition II (BS), always ready to break signal W-T-F, even on a fullbore friday.

Sgt Meyer is a hero and a national treasure.  But if all you wanted was admiration for this incredible young man, perhaps you should have disabled comments.  nothing wrong with that.  Sometimes it is a good thing to just post a simple video of an incredible MoH ceremony and let the porch ponder in silence.  

Salty Gator said...

I say that one every day!

Salty Gator said...

CDR S,

I don't know, Sir.  URR, C-Dore 14, Grandpa Bluewater, B, DB, Badger, Pk......all weighed in at some point outside of your initial rhumb lines.  Not just a salty gator greasy-terd-on-the-desk thread-jacking, we're talking folks with actual porch credentials here.

Redeye80 said...

Don't do it. I'd like to hear you POV on it.

cdrsalamander said...

Get your own blog.

cdrsalamander said...

:-P

LT B said...

Can't afford the mortgage on the porch, and keeping the roof from leaking is a pain too.  Then there is rocking chair maintenance, etc.  Thank God that the Badger keeps running down and supplying the libations!

Bubba said...

Cdr,

I hope you rethink your idea to delete your post.

I would like to comment on the "king," comment, but, I do think this thread should be devoted to praise of of a young man who is but the latest in a long line of men, and women, of whom our nation should be proud. 

Bubba said...

I like links, it is links that ask me to pay money that I have a problem with. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Look at it this way:  I think the discussion is germane, and perfectly appropriate, guest's opportunistic labeling exercise notwithstanding. 

It is a discussion very similar to Churchill's very public voice of concerns in 1941-2 as to whether the "sons of democracy" had the toughness and courage it took to defeat the totalitarian enemies.  Except now, instead of a generation that admired but perhaps could not emulate (they could, in the end), we have one now who has been raised to believe that they are the center of the universe.  Service to country has been in many cases actively discouraged and disparaged, those who give life and limb are dupes, and the REAL selflessness is doing a half-day charity walk for some disease or disorder or other.

It is clear Sgt Meyer is not typical, even among Marines.  But how long will our culture continue to produce men like him and the Marines and Soldiers around him, when the "educated" and "enlightened" place so little value it it?  In how many secondary education classrooms will such feats of selfless courage be discussed?  My wager is not many.

Bubba said...

<span> </span>Read Good-Bye to All That.  Real men read poetry.  Real men write poetry.  Men who don’t read poetry are stupid. 

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, 
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, 
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs 
And towards our distant rest began to trudge. 
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots 
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; 
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots  
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

<span>Bubba,  
 
I take it that LT B's point is that, at the age Sgt Meyer entered the Marine Corps, he likely didn't have much exposure to the kind of poetry warriors gravitate toward.  Kipling, Shakespeare, Graves.  Sassoon.  Tennyson.  Which is part of the discussion.  He very likely didn't have any teachers that understood such works deeply enough to impart any particular insight or value that could not be found in Cliff Notes.   And the poetry that WAS covered in the schools likely didn't inspire him to read further. 
 
How many HS or JHS teachers today could explain the St Crispin's speech adequately?  Or Graves' masterpiece?  Heaven forfend they analyze "White Man's Burden".  The title alone would keep them from touching it with a ten-foot pole.  When in actuality, it is as applicable today as when it was written 110 years ago.   
 
I discovered Kipling wrote more than Just So Stories when I got a card from my Mother that had the poem "If" on it.  That card is still a treasured possession thirty years on.  But taught Kipling in school?  Not a chance.  And even less so, today.  So it was in adulthood that I discovered the most meaningful works.
</span>

Salty Gator said...

--gasp--suffocating--no oxygen left--can't--bring myself to respond--

cdrsalamander said...

No, post is already deleted - but a new one is in its place that you may find more interested.

As for "king" - as a strict small "r" republican - we don't care for monarchists 'round here ... but we fully understand the concept of "king and country" and support its broader use as an accurate and poetic description of duty.

leesea said...

I have saw Sgt Meyer interviewed on CBS and heard Bing West's comments.  This Marine is the epitome of the stoic hero. He HAD to go in to save his "brothers".  Of that there was no question in his mind nor order to stop him.
Semper Fi !

leesea said...

LT B. yes CBS seemed to emphasize the negatives of which there were many in this incident.  Bing West's comments were more about the troops involved and praise Sgt Meyer properly

leesea said...

the way it was explained tonight on CBS is the Army helos were turned away by dummies at TOC.  The advisor team was both Army and Marines

leesea said...

no more LPDs to be built TG

leesea said...

I wish I could remember where I saw Bing West interview about Sgt Meyer?  Perhaps ABC Sunday?

Bubba said...

The greatest day of the year is January 30th!  The modern world began when our republican forefathers first proved there is no divine right by removing an inbreed autocrat’s head from his body.  

Salty Gator said...

For those who may not understand Bubba Gump's reference, Oliver Cromwell signed the death warrant of Charles I on January 30th, 1649.  Cromwell was not a democrat, small 'd', nor a republican, small 'r.'  He appointed himself dictator for life, started multiple wars across Europe--including hostilities with Sal's beloved Dutch--and was guilty of a massive internal Stalinist purge.  Cromwell was ultimately poisoned, fitting, because that is what he did to the United Kingdom.

Bubba, you are showing your true colors.  "Anybody but Bush," right?  So you end up with an Obama.  "Anybody but Charles."  So you ended up with Cromwell.  You would probably consider that just, but it isn't.  Not only do the ends not justify the means, but the means are devoid of ethics.

Read YN2's post.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

<span>Oliver Cromwell as an icon of republicanism?  Huh.  Is that the same Cromwell who dissolved Parliament, and whose armies, with his full knowledge, massacred thousands of Irish civilians and Catholic clergy at Wexford and Drogheda?   
 
He was a Puritanical theocrat, whose brutally arbitrary and capricious methods are more comparable to Robespierre than Madison.</span>

DeltaBravo said...

Bubba, you are a literalist mucking about quite lost in metaphor country.  Pay attention to the map everyone keeps trying to hand you.

Bubba said...

<span> </span>This is not the post for this discussion, but, the trial and execution of Charles I is one of the watershed movements in human history.  The idea was that a king ruled by divine right, the people do not have, “a share in government that is pertaining to them,” was put to rest when Charles was tried, and executed.

<span> </span>The modern world began when Parliament, 59 members of Parliament, not Cromwell acting alone, signed the warrant for Charles’ execution.  The idea that a population could try, convict, and execute their sovereign was revolutionary and led directly to our system of government.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Louis XIV, XV, and XVI could not be reached for comment. 

Salty Gator said...

You are on crack cocaine.  That is like saying that the murder of Tsar Nicholas and his entire family during the Bolshevik revolution was the watershed moment of eastern european democracy.  The signing of the Magna Carta in 1215 was the watershed moment of Western Democracy.

Go back to school.

Salty Gator said...

And one other point, Bubba.  Such a typical liberal.  Start a food fight and then lecture everyone on proper table manners.

I may be a former officer, and depending on the country I step foot in, a gentleman by birth rite (get over it), but he who sticks his nose up at me has to worry about having it broken.

Bubba said...

Charles I was tried, and executed, in 1649.  Louis XIV, the Sun King, died of gangrene at Versailles on 1 September 1715, four days before his 77th birthday, and sixty-six years after the death of Charles I.  Louis XV died on 10 May 1774 of smallpox at the Palace of Versailles, one hundred and twenty-five years after Charles I.  Louis XVI was arrested as part of the insurrection of August 10, 1792, when the French finally gave one of their kings proper treatment, one hundred and forty-three years after the execution of Charles I.   

Magna Carta was a step, but only a small step.  It was the trial and execution of Charles I, by Parliament, that was the first step to a population governing itself.  All the revolutions that followed, from ours to the Arab Spring, are following the path first taken by the Parliamentarians. 

Remember that the very name “right wing” comes from this time.  The king’s men sat on the right, or favored, side of the chamber.  Then, apparently like now, the right wing favored the king’s exercise of arbitrary, absolute power.  "Kings are not bound to give an account of their actions but to God alone," said Charles.  That idea, the divine right of kings, started to die with the death of Charles.

For the first time in history, a group of elected representatives exercised political power; charging, trying, convicting and executing a king for treason.  Dust off your Declaration of Independence; God did not pick a king, God gave men certain “natural rights,” including the right to overthrow an oppressive government. 


Nutty right-wing king lovers. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Bubba,

The point was the Louis XIV, XV and XVI were western absolutists whom believed in the divine right of kings, the last being almost a century and a half after Charles I's demise. 

As for your "right wing king lovers" comment, grow up.  The accountability is in the Constitution.  Leaf through it from time to time.  And find me the part about mandating the purchase of health insurance, paying tax money to unions in a "bailout" package, or any reference therein to "hate crimes", "hate speech", or "diversity"-generated racial or gender quotas.

Bubba said...

I'm not talking about a "bailout" package, "hate crimes", "hate speech", or "diversity"-generated racial or gender quotas.  I’m talking ‘bout a revolution.  

Few Americans know anything about the English Civil Wars, as evidenced by the comments above.  It was the first revolution, the mother of all revolutions, fueled by an ideology of liberty and equality, that led directly to our revolution.  Sure, four hundred years later it is easy, for some of us, to express that the idea of a king is abhorrent and that a just government derives from the consent of the governed. In 1642 . . . 


BT

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>Then, apparently like now, the right wing favored the king’s exercise of arbitrary, absolute power."</span>

You don't know quite what you were talking about, do you?

The first revolution?  Not hardly.  Viewed as a waypoint on a continuum, the 1381 "Tyler's Rebellion" is much more significant.  As is Runnymede.

Salty Gator said...

You condescending son of a bitch.  Who the hell do you think pledged their lives, their treasure and their sacred honor?  It wasn't the frickin liberals.  Who defends liberty today? Who serves in the armed forces and not just to pay their school loans?  Who marches in the tea party and not for more welfare stamps?

You want to talk about revolution?  Storming the bastille was murder.  Plain and simple.  Had little to nothing to do with liberty.  Perhaps you also think that the reign of terror was a good idea too?  Off with their heads, right Robespierre?

Let me speak in as plain langauge as possible for your simple little mind.  If you try something like that today, you will last two seconds in the street.  Because unlike your baseball bat wielding anarchist buddies who attack inanimate objects and defenseless women / old people, patriots are armed.

Anonymous said...

Bubba, this is where the front porch comes to be condescending.  You shouldn't bother. It's like negotiating with terrorists.  

DeltaBravo said...

Wow.  Just wow.  Way to come here and crap all over a MOH post.  Negotiating with terrorists?  REALLY???!!!  All because Bubba is tone deaf to a good metaphor?

Anonymous said...

Yup, Terrorists can't respect the opinions of others, they have a closed society that self reinforces, and decries those that question them.  Thank you for being a good example.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>Yup, Terrorists can't respect the opinions of others, they have a closed society that self reinforces, and decries those that question them."</span>

HOLY CRAP!  I used to call those people "College Faculty"!!!

Salty Gator said...

CDR, I am sorry that I allowed myself to get suckered into this threadjack, and for losing my cool in a string of profanity not fit for the southern front porch of a friend. 

DeltaBravo said...

Trolljacks need to be kicked into the moat for the gators to play with.  (Poor Badger is tired of cleaning the stains on the porch.)

Anonymous said...

<span> </span>Is there anything more ironic than the tea party?  A bunch of selfish Torys dressing up in the costumes of their enemies and parading around carrying, "keep the government out of my social security" signs.  Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Thomas Paine were as liberal as they come, Thomas Jefferson is the textbook liberal.  Did you know he cut up his bible? Did you know he was the proponent of the wall that separates church from state?  Didn't think so.   

<span> </span>It is a bit scary that this group is so ignorant of history.  "Storming the bastille was murder.  Plain and simple.  Had little to nothing to do with liberty."  Really?  The French Revolution had "little to nothing to do with liberty." The. French. Revolution.   

<span> </span>You can take this stance, and if you want to you should, but, you can't take this stance and claim not to be a king lover.    

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Keeping the money I earn = selfish. 

Limiting the power of the Federal Government to Constitutional limits = ignorant of history. 

Separation of church and state = Government outlawing religion.

Got it.  Thanks for the history lesson.

Anonymous said...

<span> </span>Selfish as in take, and don’t give back.  You magical self-made rich supermen don't owe anything to the society that nurtured you because you have earned every dime of their fortunes all by yourselves without any help from the government. 

<span> </span>Let's take a well-known Galtian Overlord such as Steve Jobs, truly one of the most inventive CEOs of our generation. Contrary to what you may have heard, Jobs did not, in fact, teach himself how to read and do math. Rather, he attended a public high school, just like the vast majority of American children. The young Jobs was able to attend school in the first place because of government regulations that barred child labor and mandated schooling. Added to this, the young Jobs benefited from having publicly-funded police and fire departments that ensured that he survived until he was rich enough to afford his own private security detail. If Rick Perry had been governor of California and had dramatically slashed funds to first responders, then our budding young Galtian Overlord might have died in a wildfire instead of inventing the iPhone.

<span> </span>And of course there are other ways you tea-party boobs have has benefitted from the government, from a legal system that protects intellectual property to a military that prevents the Queen of England from coming into your home and bossing you around to a social safety net that insured that even if you aren’t a success, you will not die destitute in the street and unable to pay your medical bills in your old age. 

<span> </span>So yes, I would say you owe a lot to an American government that offers some of the lowest personal income tax rates in the industrialized world.  And, if there were any merit to the silly superstition you call religion, it could stand on its own without government help. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Guest,

Please tell me more about what I owe my society.  I am fascinated by your line of reasoning.  Please define what you think is service.  And please, tell me what I take.  And my obligation to "give back".  HOW I should give back, and who should mandate my legal obligation to do so. 

I think my favorite part of the sanctimonious far-left is when I get the lectures on service and sacrifice.  So please.  Go on.

Liz Warren said...

I hear all this, you know, “Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever.”—No!
There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.
You built a factory out there—good for you! But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.