Wednesday, December 21, 2011

More lipstick than butch ...


... no further comment required.
A Navy tradition caught up with the repeal of the U.S. military's "don't ask, don't tell" rule on Wednesday when two women sailors became the first to share the coveted "first kiss" on the dock after one of them returned from 80 days at sea.

Petty Officer 2nd Class Marissa Gaeta of Placerville, Calif., descended from the USS Oak Hill amphibious landing ship and shared a quick kiss with her partner, Petty Officer 3rd Class Citlalic Snell of Los Angeles. The crowd screamed and waved flags around them.

Both women, ages 22 and 23 respectively, are fire controlmen in the Navy. They met at training school and have been dating for two years.

Navy officials said it was the first time on record that a same-sex couple was chosen to kiss first upon a ship's return. Sailors and their loved ones bought $1 raffle tickets for the opportunity. Gaeta said she bought $50 of tickets. The Navy said the money would be used to host a Christmas party for the children of sailors.
I think Navy Relief missed an opportunity here ... but maybe I should stick to my "no further comment" above.

I just hope they didn't chip a tooth. OK, I need to stop right now.
UPDATE: OK, not the video a lot of you want to see - but let this put the Sailors in a bit more depth.

349 comments:

1 – 200 of 349   Newer›   Newest»
MCPO Airdale said...

I am so damned glad I'm retired.

WCOG said...

I see nothing wrong with this. I'm extremely glad to see that the Navy and the Armed Forces in general are moving into the post DADT era in an apparently seamless fashion. The Navy is responding to the commands of the American people, that's something everyone should be proud of, whether or not you agreed with the repeal  of the policy.

Back in the Day said...

To quote my old boot camp chief (a ww-ii sub vet) "when you kiss , your putting your mouth on the gaping open end of a 32 foot tube of s***".  I am very glad I am not in this Navy I don't hate them just can't understand them.

andrewdb said...

Progress! 

I'm proud at the entire lack of problems with implemenation of Repeal. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

The lack of any problems that will be allowed into the light of day, anyway. 

Why is it that the idea that this is "just how the raffle turned out" seems a bit far-fetched?  After all, Navy leadership has never given us reason to doubt the sincerity or the truthfulness of their words and actions.

WCOG said...

The raffle turned out that way because the FCs spent like $100 on raffle tickets. Which was allowed. So no secret plot to shove their odious gayness down our collective throat (man, that's a terrible coice of idiom but I'm sticking with it), just a clever couple gaming the system.

Anonymous said...

Amen..Chief

andrewdb said...

Oh you're so cynical (and this from me - trust me, I know for cynical).

Actually I am basing the lack of problems on the lack of issues reported not official by the Navy or other service channels, but my contacts in the "Repeal community" and my personal discussions with friends who are relatively high-er ranks (E-9s and O-6s).  Everyone has been extremely professional - I would have expected a couple of issues, but so far nothing. 

AW1 Tim said...

  By "<span> ...responding to the commands of the American people..."  You mean "being forced to accept this abnormal behaviour in ordere\ to further force this social agenda down the throats of the American public through the appearance of normal", then you might be on to something.</span>

  Our military should NEVER be used a a social engineering petri dish by anyone. Being 'gay" isn't like being born male or female, or black or white, or anything else. This is an acquired lifestyle, a chosen preference.It has never been a civil rights issue, and to make it one is to cheapen the sacrifices of those who actually fought, suffered and, in too many cases, died for actual civil rights.

Byron said...

All things being equal, I'm glad it wasn't a couple of guys... :-[

WCOG said...

No, I mean following orders from the Congress and the President. Which is all that need concern the Navy, when you get down to it.
Homosexuality is not an "acquired lifestyle", the main working theory right now is that it's the result of biological factors in-utero, though there are some other theories. One thing I assure you of is that sexual orientation is not voluntary.
There's much to find objectionable in "gay culture" of the sort that you'd find in major urban centers, but if a gay servicemember fits in with Navy or Marine Corps culture then why not welcome them, even if the thought of what they do in their spare time gives you the willies (which it does me, I'll admit). I'm sure these two sailors are fine Fire Controlmen; what more should we ask of them? In the "old navy" people are talking about, did we ostracize sailors for commiting any number of unspeakable acts with prostitutes in Subic Bay or wherever?

Anonymous said...

So are we.

Anonymous said...

Yup, the fear mongers said the world would fall apart and people would leave the service in droves.  Doesn't seem to be the case.  Bigots lack the courage of their convictions.

QSPN said...

Guest--is that why you sign on anonymously--the courage of your convictions?

Jay said...

BZ for them and the USS OAK HILL!

Anonymous said...

Just as couragous as any anonomous blogger, I just have integrity about it.  Would you respect me more if I had a pseudonym?  If you would, what does that say about your critical thinking skills?

SouthernAP said...

Of course it has only been about 6 months since the rules have changed with regards to DADT. Howver, some of the laws with regards to UCMJ haven't changed and what is being reported via open source is that it has been smoother then a baby's bum. What is the reality behind the Potemkin village is the question that needs to be asked by the media.

Anonymous said...

At my command a reporter was able to talk to some very junior personnel who apparently spoke their minds about the repeal. The reporter ran the story the next day - a story that completely contradicted the official "all is well" spin the PAs had provided just a day before.  All hell broke loose. An investigation was conducted and heads rolled for allowing the reporter access to people not parroting the approved talking points.

As to people lacking the courage of their convictions, sometimes it takes time to bail. I know several folks leaving over DADT whose seperations are in process. Of course, wether or not these are officially attributed to DADT is another story.

Anonymous said...

I should note that I'm not the same "guest" that posted below. 

Mike M. said...

"Commands of the American people?"  Bunk!  This was a poke in the eye of the military, delivered by a Congress that had just been utterly repudiated by the American people six weeks before.

And if I were homosexual, I would have regarded it as a disaster.  Because the policy is poisoned by the method in which it was inflicted.

Wharf Rat said...

Lack of problems - sure.  I absolutely believe that people who object are mature people.  They're not going to call names or treat people with anything but the right way.

Andrew - i'm actually offended that you would think there would be problems.  People like me are all over the place.  We absolutely object to homosexuality.  We also would never treat anyone poorly because that's not how you win arguments.  Just because we object doesn't mean we're going to call someone 'fags' or 'dikes'.  That's immaturity.  I work with homosexuals each day.  I know there are great people who are that way.  I still would never endorse it if they asked.

All that said - two women kissing on the dock in front of families is NOT progress.  It's bullshit.  It's basically telling anyone who might be offended that it doesn't matter.  No respect for people who might object.  That's offensive. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>Bigots lack the courage of their convictions."</span>

They do?  Then why do they dominate the Left's arguments all the time?

WCOG said...

Now I'm basically going to tell you that it doesn't matter that you are offended. Learn to deal with it, man, because this is here to stay. There's way more objectionable stuff that goes on "in front of families" anyway. Holy crap, they're cute even. This isn't going to corrupt anyone's morals any more than a straight kiss from the first sailor off the boat would. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

And here I thought the first two gays to kiss would be you and Mike Mullen.

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

Agreed.  I thought "Tres Jeigh" and "Light Loafters" Mullen were going to be all over it.

Wharf Rat said...

Guest - your argument about 'fear mongers' is specious at best.  The simple fact is that it was never about fear mongers.  It was about people who had courage in their convictions that do not believe that two men kissing are the same as women and a man kissing, and I'm keeping it G rated here.

You libs always throw out the word 'fear mongers' like we are some small minded thinkers, and those who accept everything that the left states are true thinkers, and opened minded.

Let's just list out the left positions:

1.  Abortion - 50 million abortions since 1973 (feeling good about that?)
2.  Catestrophic increases in sexuality transmitted diseases.  Why?  Because the left threw out that any value system was close minded - do what feels good.
3.  How about that growth in the welfare industry?  Right now that 'great society' program is larger than any time in our nations history - more people on government dependency.
4.  How about that real estate market?  Yes, lets give to people who can't afford it, so it destroys the value of the homes of those that can afford it
5.  How about the fact that 50% of the population do not pay federal income taxes, and punish the successful that do?
6.  How about taxing the rich?  Yeah - right now the rich pay 75% of all federal income taxes, and according to you - it still ain't enough!
7.  How about that $15 trillion debt?  You gotta love that.  Let's screw the future of America instead of actually working for what we need.
8.  Let's not forget that there's been a catestrophic increase of babies out of wedlock since 1973, which meant people went to work, didn't go to college, and billions in future earning potential was wasted because the value was, go ahead, have sex before you're married, values don't matter any more.

Yeah - I'm definitly the closed minded thinker.  Conservatism doesn't work.  Values don't work.  Liberalism - that's for opened minded people.  Yeah, $15 trillion in debt tells me all I need to know about liberalism.

Wharf Rat said...

so - if I'm on that pier, and I'm pissed that my 14 year old daughter had to see that, then I'm a bigot?  Really? 

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

Focking lame.  Almost as lame as the press coverage when two male corporals were introduced to thh CMC's wife at the Marine Corps Birthday Ball--and then she was pressed for comment.  What did you think she was going to say?  What can she say?

If you just want to be sailors and Marines, then go be sailors and Marines.  But making this crap front page news......tell me, are we covering every ship's arrival into home port, or just the ones where homosexuals are necking on the pier?

I'm not knocking these sailors.  It's not my place...and I don't think they deserve it.  But once again, diversity industry wins.  It's not going to be folded into diversity?  Bullshit.  If it helps sustain the diversity industry, you better believe it will be.

And you know what, don't tell me that there isn't a family dynamic here.  There is.  Homosexuality is not normal.  It is abnormal.  Should people be miserable and forced to live normal lifestyles that are incompatible with who they are?  That is between them and God.  But please, for the love of Christ.......don't force the car ride home to be about the two boys necking on the pier when it should be about "Mommy / Daddy we missed you!!!"

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

And don't try to quote the APA latest guidance on me either about homosexuality not being "abnormal."  From DSM-1 through DSM-IV, it was.  only in DSM-IV TR and beyond was it not considered "abnormal."  And that was all politics.

Wharf Rat said...

So basically - I just need to shut up and let it happen.  How many times has that happened in history?  What's the next value to fall that I should just shut up and let it happen?  The next after that?

You libs said welfare in the 60's, then abortion in the 70's, then gay rights in the 80's, then heck, the real estate market in the 90's, and now domestic spending beyond what this country can remotely pay off.  Let's not forget energy - we can't drill here domestically, our unions have pushed industry to Asia.  It's goes on and on. 

WCOG - your argument is 100% bullshit.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

So if it doesn't matter if Wharf Rat is offended, why does it matter so much when a ghey is offended? 

Or are we all now to nod in agreement with your assessment of what corrupts morals?  Is that required, too?  

Please, enlighten more about what my core beliefs should be.  In the name of freedom, of course.

WCOG said...

The Navy needs to shut up and let it happen. Becuase that's how it works. As a individual, Wharf Rat, you are free to be as hateful as you like, it is a free country after all ;) .
And don't pretend you know s#!t about my politics, because you don't. I'm a libertarian, and in response to your assertions I would point out that both liberal and conservative administrations and congresses have presided over these unpleasant cultural and fiscal changes since world war two. You are all failures. Congratulations.

FOD said...

Old Navy - Sailor has a girl in every port.
New Navy - Sailor has a girl in every port.

andrewdb said...

The APA acted in 1974.  Homosexuality was removed from the DSM-II, 7th printing.  See here: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders#Seventh_printing_of_the_DSM-II.2C_1974

You can raise your kids how you want, but the kids will eventually see something you don't like, somewhere, some time.   Pretending gay folks don't exist doesn't really work very well. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

No, no problems.  I wanna do the women's PFT.  Why?  I am having trouble "gender identifying".  Next promotion board, can I submit as a female and up my chances?    This is what is coming, bet on it. 

"The controversy began when Felisha Archuleta protested against a Denver troop's decision to not initially allow her transgender daughter, Bobby Montoya, to join the group. "I believe he was born in the wrong body," Archuleta, who also confessed to having difficulty switching from male to female pronouns when discussing her child, told ABC. "But the Girl Scout leader told us he can't join because he has 'boy parts.'... But no one would know he's a boy unless they pulled his pants down."
The Girl Scouts of Colorado subsequently released a statement through the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) in support of Archuleta and her excluded daughter, noting, "If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout."
Added Rachelle Trujillo, vice president for communications of the Colorado Girl Scouts: "If a child is living as a girl, that's good enough for us. We don't require any proof of gender."

WCOG said...

URR, this is about equality under the law, I honestly don't give a f@(k if any gays are offended. If one group of people is allowed, then so must everyone else be.  I believe that this is a core tenet of Western civilization and what sets us apart from the barbarians.
It is my personal belief that nothing corrupts morals, that they are intrinsic to each man or woman. What, just because your daughter saw two women kiss, she's suddenly going to be sexually attracted to women? It doesn't work that way.

cdrsalamander said...

Guest,
It would be helpful if you picked a name so it is easier to comment back.  Try Nomufftootuff.   

Ungh .... I need to stop .....

(and BTW, before any drama mama's get the vapors, click the DADT tag)

WCOG said...

Exactly.

andrewdb said...

<span>Core beliefs?  Freedom, liberty and the Constitution would be a good start.</span>

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Yep, Wharf Rat, you are a bigot.  If you think you have any right to instill a system of values in your children that is not approved by MSNBC, Mike Mullen, and the GLBT alliance, then you are worse than a bigot.  You are an extremist, and probably a violent one.   And we thought Major Hasan was a threat.....   keeping an eye on you, mister.

andrewdb said...

Nice straw man you have there, but the transgender issue is covered by the medical regs, and that hasn't changed with Repeal.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Equality, is it?  I am white, male, straight, Christian, and under 65.  I am in the only category of adult in this country who does not have a specific set of laws championing my rights over someone else. 

Diversity.  Hate crime laws.  DACOWITS.   The Congressional Black Caucus.  

If you think this is about equality under the law, then you probably own a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge.

andrewdb said...

<span><span>I don't think Repeal will be the major problem with retention and the size of the military - see our hosts previous posts about coming funding levels for more on what will be the real problem.</span></span>

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Would that be freedom to disagree and the liberty to teach my children the values I hold dear? 

Just checking.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Oh, no, I am sure it never will.  As DoD would never collapse to the pressure of an activist special interest group in an attempt to curry political favor. 

Nope, not possible.

cdrsalamander said...

I thought more people would be having fun with this.  For the record, I have young teen aged girls. They see more than this on ABC (disfunctional family), MTV, SyFy, or any network that is.  Even if you don't have them on at home, their friends have them. It is part of life - if nothing else it is a chance to explain part of life to them. It is what it is.  In any event - the parts of the world where homosexuals cower in fear are on average not the places I would want my children to grow up.  The Netherlands or Iran?  

Easy call.  

Maybe I'm weird - but I simply do not believe that it is a funciton of a free society to limit free people from showing affection to those they love as long as it is done in an appropriate venue and everyone is of age. If it doesn't harm or threaten you - then who cares? Is it my lifestyle? No. Is it a lifestyle I wish for my daughters? No.

Did this couple do this to get a rise out of people?  Maybe. Should that shock anyone? No.

Maybe its just me.  Anyway, this is good ghey. (you can make funny about this, no?)

WCOG said...

No, you can't play the non-race card! These people weren't unfairly chosen to make a political statement, they won a raffle. That's a huge difference.  I'm right there with Sal  when he does his diversity thursday posts because I agree that discrimination of all stripes is bad, whether in attempt to humiliate minorities or as "affirmative action". I don't see anything like that here besides two young sailors making a statement on their own dollar in their own time. I applaud their wit. I rejoice that I and most of the people I know my age (engineering students, conservative in all other respects) see nothing remarkable in this.
We need to move past the 1970s, but not just in terms of racialistic and sexualistic social welfare policies.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

I was wondering why it was a story at all, if it is just the same as a man and woman kissing.  Right?

Or is this and the two male Lance Corporals headlines because they push the agenda further?  They stick it in the eye of anyone who deigned to disagree with that spineless simp Mullen?

Yeah, this is the good ghey.  The front page kind.  Otherwise, it wouldn't matter, would it?

Anonymous said...

no problem for me, 'mander..they good FT's

DM05 said...

Whan I saw this, first, it was the little voice that tells says "gay pride rigged ship with pride month, special menu, and lotsa personnel difficulties " coming soon to a port near you...Then the other little voice that says "Don't ask, don't care" kicked in. I'm at peace, it's the law now, and not in the canoe club no' more...At least they're cute, so better the first time than two manly BM3's slipping toungues at the pier; it's all evolutionary and that's next folks.

What strikes me as odd, is the Navy parrotted this as a story in advance; is Mullen onboard or is this worth some A-holes 5/5 on the diversity FITREP box?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>No, you can't play the non-race card!"</span>

Oh, I can't?  Thanks for the bulletin.   That gays become yet another politically protected and affirmed special interest group that will become a part of the Diversity Machine has no bearing here? 

Not hardly.  andrew's assertion about no problems, so far, rings false in what we know to be a politically charged environment.  Those who disagree with repeal will be to blame each and every time.  But wait until it becomes the activists' show.  Just like DACOWITS, someone like Barney Frank (not him, apparently) will come along and state the goal of "destroying the culture".  And they will, with the same unfair, ruthless, politically driven witch hunt as they did in 1991.

WCOG said...

Okay, so now I'll take a break from my regularly scheduled seriousness to act like a 22 year old again: "lol, this is  pretty hot".



Sal, thanks for being the cool one, yet again.

The horror....the horror...

WCOG said...

Not 100% but I think the ladies alerted the norfolk times to the story and the Navy just ran with the ball...

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Maybe the Jacobs' Ladder over the side of the next ship can be crocheted with teal-and-lavender line....

Stu said...

<span>The Netherlands or Iran?    </span>
---------
That's like saying I would rather careen off the right side of the road in a ditch instead of the left side.

cdrsalamander said...

Stu,
You need to visit The Netherlands.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Perhaps Stu doesn't visit the Netherlands because there are things there he doesn't want to see everywhere he looks. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

There is a difference between having your kids see something you don't want them to see, and having those things have the stamp of official sanction on them. 

Anonymous said...

Just wait until the first CO is found to be a cross-dresser.  LMAO

Wharf Rat said...

URR - yeah, I'm a trouble maker.  All I do is go to work each day, work hard to be the best sales rep. I can be, send my daughter to the Sea Cadets, volunteer with my youth program, have two son's with jobs, my wife's a teacher and (whisper here), I'm part of a US Navy Commissioning Committee.  You better keep an eye on me. 

You see - there's truth in what a lot of people say here - and I've shut my mouth for years as I know there are people who believe different, and act different than me.  But when it gets right down to brass tacks - don't tell me I'm a bigot because I disagree with you.  Why aren't you a bigot for disagreeing with me??

And I have ghey friends, have had them for years.  In fact I just hugged one as she got rehired after a layoff and recovery from cancer.  I don't shame anyone, but that doesn't believe I accept it either.

WCOG said...

It's the Netherlands, not Las Vegas. You have to look for the stuff you don't want to see before you can find it. Not a lot of effort, mind you, just some ;) (unless the stuff you don't aprove of is Calvinist churches or flowers).

Andrew said...

Between the body language and the rings we know which one wears the pants, so to speak. I have to admit these are fun pictures.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

WR,

The activists and advocates always leverage tolerance and manners into acceptance and official policy. 

Why aren't they bigots for disagreeing with you?  Because they are open and accepting, provided you believe every last thing they do, and nothing they don't.   That is how modern liberalism works.

Wharf Rat said...

WCOG - There it comes out!!  Yes!  If you object, you are HATEFUL!  Hilarious!  The most specious argument out there.  That's beautiful.  Didn't you say you're a liberterian?  That's what liberals say all the time.  Love to have to you pick up their language.

Now - now I can have fun with this.  Hateful - wow is that funny.  Values, having them, are hateful.  I thought liberalism and diversity really meant being open minded to all positions, unless of course, you object to them.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Skipper of USS J Edgar Hoover perhaps?

Wharf Rat said...

Ah - but what about groups that like to steal?  They could easily say they're born with it.  What about groups that like, I don't know, speeding - the foot can gentically be lead.  What about any number of people who can create identities that may want to change a value in 10 years, 20 years? 

Remember, "if one group is allowed, then so must everyone else be."

Wharf Rat said...

Exactly.

Anonymous said...

Calling them members of the military "ghey"... great leadership!  Lets laugh and make fun of those serving because of their families.

WCOG said...

As long as it holds the harbor pilot when he's trying to come aboard...

Anonymous said...

How many people that threatened to leave, left?  Empty threats...  Fear mongering.  I guess the truth hit close to home.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

It is spelled that way because blogs that have the word spelled correctly enough times wind up getting all sorts of somewhat unwelcome traffic, and often more than a few unwelcome comments. 

Wharf Rat said...

Sad thing is - I could have fun with this per Sal's comments, but when someone says they're 'suprised' that there weren't problems, that just got to me.  I live that professonalism every day at my company.  There's a certain job description that draws lady's that hit on the same team, and the bottom line is - I don't care.  We're team members, and I treat them with the respect they deserve.

Satire is sooo much more fun.  In fact, I had Sailors in from a certain PCU this last weekend in town for PR purposes, and all we did was laugh.  Two wore their uniforms downtown - didn't pay for a drink the entire night. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Right.  And as long as the hull has watertight integrity, a big pink triangle on the side is okay, too.

Anonymous said...

I had one, you blocked it.  You didn't like it when I responded in kind to the name calling from your porch.  I no longer feel the need to use one, its easier and lets the weak minded self identify by challenging me for not choosing a name rather than analyze the thoughts.

WCOG said...

Oh, I don't know, it would strike fear in the hearts of Al-Shebab when they saw it coming over the horizon...

cdrsalamander said...

G,
1. Welcome to the interwebs.
2. Lighten up Francis.
3. Don't visit here often, do you? Maybe you should click the DADT tag a bit.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Why?  The Global Force for Good tries so hard not to actually KILL anybody... 

And if you painted it on LCS, they would be paddling out from Provincetown to join the cruise.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Yeah, guest.  That must be it. 

WCOG said...

Hey, we're looking for a few good men, right?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

YOU might be looking for that kind.   

I?TFP said...

After years of bosses (most married) making passes and your peers trying to take you on dates then this picture is GLORIOUS!  Pile in the gays...I'd be the first chic to sign up to cruise on an all-gay ship (seriously).  It will be clean, stylish and always happy.  Drop the soap, go ahead, I don't care...just sing show-tunes and go shopping with me!  We can hit up great dining spots in port and I will never have to hold your hand to medical for a shot and 4 pills.  I LOVE it!!!

UltimaRatioRegis said...

If that ain't the Navy's definition of "battlemindedness", I dunno what is....

Anonymous said...

You missed the point.  Gay men and women don't deserve respect, they deserve to be called "ghey" and laughed at for being different.  How could we possibly expect more from senior leadership?

Wharf Rat said...

Hey guest - seriously, thanks for challenging my convictions - 'iron sharpens iron'.

I do hope you have the greatest Christmas ever.  Read Luke 2 - if that doesn't put 'dust' in your eye, nothing will.  Merry Christmas to all on the blog.  That's more important that anything I've written here.

James said...

No they pointed to the problems that this is going to cause in the service. You havn't seen shit yet.

Most of the problems that you will see are so small most outside of the military or most likely even the Unit wont notice. That is until the units start to slip.

So how many more officers will we lose now ontop of the already high rate for fraternazation.

James said...

"...lets the weak minded self identify by challenging me for not choosing a name rather than analyze the thoughts."
Sounds to me like your a self rightous arrogant little prick.Hint: when someone's argument is "those that dont agree with me are some how stupid or not as good as me" that person in turn shows they have no wish for actucal debate. Instead it simply shows that they dont want debate only obedience.I disagree with some people here on their choice in supporting Paul for president but that doesn't mean they are stupid or weak minded it means they have a difference of opinion. Now i will argue with them till the cows come how but that doesnt mean i think they should just shut up, be silent and obey mearly that i disagree.....of course most lefties have a problem with this..................... Maybe thats why there governments seem to end up like the Nazies or the Communist.

Anonymous said...

James, thanks for proving the point!

cdrsalamander said...

URR,
Like tall athletic, beautiful women who have beautiful skin, who speak English better than I do, can handle their drink, and love American men?  Like a safe, clean place where young kids can walk downtown late at night with no worries? Huge public parties during Carnival where there are no police in sight, but everyone from 9-90 is drinking, dancing, and having a good time without a fight? I don't care for their gun laws or taxes - but seriously - he really needs to visit there.  Denmark too with a little run by Slovenia for good measure.  Croatia as well.

Anonymous said...

Got a link to the story? I haven't seen one like that.

I?TFP said...

Oh gosh, they're just exchanging hugs and kisses.  You're worried about the chance to explain something to your children first, before they are exposed to a much more lewd version??? Good thing I was taught what a pedophile was when I was a child so no one was able to tell me that it was acceptable behavior.  And if you want another interesting car ride home, take your kids to the zoo in the springtime.

James said...

Proving your point how. YOU said that those who dont agree are bigots or weak minded.

I and MANY others here and elsewhere are willing to debate this YOU on the other hand pull out the "shut up bigots your to stupid to know what is right let me a better who KNOWS what is supposed to be said talk be silent".

You used one word.

You argue like a child.

BTW i'm for gay civil unions and even gay marriages (if the appropriate laws are put into effect safe guarding a persons right to refuse to marry a couple THAT is their right their personel right). After all if its OK for a slut who has cheated on her husband dozens of times and acts like a whore to be married why couldn't the women their be married if they would be faithful and loving? Same for men.

SO please enlighten us on your reasons Why the military shouldn't just force throught gays in the military. That provided you remember any of their reason Guest.

Good night.

AW1 Tim said...

Main working theory? Social engineers of the leftist persuasion have been trying to find something that sticks for years, all to no avail. Not one single scientific study, NOT ONE, has found a "gay gene" or any proof that homosexuality is anything other than an acquired lifestyle, a choice no diffent than Goth, or Punk or whatever.

The Albert Einstein School of Medicine conducted a study of some 10,000 self-identified homosexual men. In that study, not one case was shown to be anything more than an acquired lifestyle.

V/R

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Global Force For Good makes me once again think how far we have come from Halsey's Tulagi billboards.  Global Force For Good just isn't as intimidating as KILL! KILL! KILL!
Perhaps KILL! KILL! KILL! in rainbow colored letters?

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Every day, I find myself thinking it's getting close to the time to just go into my Burrow, close the blast doors, and not come out until the fighting and bickering is over.  This level of meaness and discontent is hard on a creature as peaceful and cuddley as a Badger. 

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

You would think the collective experiences of all militaries over a period of several thousand years would be taken into account before this sort of thing is forced upon them.  Of course, the Left are far birghter than the collective military minds of all time.

Anonymous said...

Husband returns from deployment - wins first kiss lottery - wife and newborn child show up on the pier - they kiss, father meets child for the first time. Historic. A main event.

Two young girls kissing - after alerting the press (media wh@res) - historic?? -  No - a carnival side show - yes. But they will be on the "View" and the other media side-shows, and probably hand selected for STA-21.

FCC(SW) said...

It certainly takes a little of the sting off of my ERB bad news.

Systems Adict said...

Am I just being stooopid, but c'mon, could they not think of better names for the two ladies ??

I hate to say it, real or not those names look like the usual tabliod / gutter press shenanigans.

For example.....
Here, "Vaginal Fllange (29)", meets her partner "Rusty McNugget-Burger (27), for the 1st time since the ship deployed 21 days ago.....

If the Navy wants to use this as PR, then BOY, they got some lernin to doo....

Former 3364 said...

Hey, at least you won't have to worry about them getting pregnent just before a WestPac...

Stu said...

I'm VERY familiar with the Netherlands.

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

I stand corrected.

I?TFP said...

That's another great reason!...the CODs won't have to fly a plane of chicks off of the boat right off the bat

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Didn't say I wouldn't go. 

Hedonism is my thing.  ;)

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Oh gosh.  And then it is two men doing a bit more than that.  And oh, gosh, someone raising a child wishes not to see something like that, especially not with the US Navy in the role of official sponsor and advocate.

"If you don't agree with it, Daddy, how come the Navy let's 'em do it and make a big deal out of it?"

Wonder what Patsy Schroeder would say about a lottery that ended with a sailor meeting an appropriately-clad Filipino prostitute, whom he fastens a dog collar to and leads to his car.

Anonymous said...

It probably is not actually legal to hold this type of event in the name of a MWR raffle (even though every ship does it for homecomings). Big Navy Inspector General needs to get involved.

LT B said...

So, I heard we had a DADT incident at the Chief's mess.  Not one of my chiefs, but one of them in our community was at the club having a beer.  A rather fem male chief walks in and orders something (apple tini?) to drink.  Chief looks at him, lets it be.  Then the fem chief has a date walk in.  A man wearing a scarf, frilly affectations and two gold loops hanging from his ear lobes.  Chief looks at fem chief and says, "You have to check your girlfriend in." 

Upon hearing that, the scarf is ripped off by the owner, and his ear rings wiggled as he stood up and said, "I am a Navy Chief!" 

The Chief said, "Maybe you should Chief up, Butch up, and follow the regulations!"  I am quite certain there were other unsavory, but rather Chiefly words thrown in.  I did not hear that it went to blows (no pun intended) but there was quite a shouting match that had to be broken up.

There's your new Navy.  Yep, no issues at all.  Not all are as happy go lucky w/ this as Big Navy and the MSM would like to portray.  And their are those of the DADT persuasion that want to flaunt it, thus making it about them.  Follow the UCMJ, enforce the UCMJ, set the standard, force all to meet the standard and you can tell the diversity industry to shove it where the sun don't shine (and some would enjoy that).  Thank you, I am here all week!

Old Nuke said...

Okay, some state married these two young ladies.  Now, as I understand it, married folks cannot be assigned to the same ship (and these two are not).

Mrs Old Nuke wants to know what bureaucracy in the Navy is going to track the marriage status of gay Sailors to make sure they do not accidentily live together.

Who is going to track the proverbial PAGE TWO entries?

Since the federal government must stand behind the Defense of Marriage Act (until repealed) ... what is stopping a gay (married) couple from serving together since the 'marriage' would not be official sanctioned?

Funny the things that pop into Mrs ON's mind after being a 20-year Navy wife.

LT B said...

Had to give a typhoon brief to a skipper wearing one of those PJ gowns even w/ the silly cap.  I looked at him, he looked at me and said, "What's the matter, never seen a captain in a dress before?" 

"Yes, sir, but she is my boss."  Then I went on w/ my forecast.  I wish I could remember the ship and his name.  No clue though.

LT B said...

Had to give a typhoon brief to a skipper wearing one of those PJ gowns even w/ the silly cap.  I looked at him, he looked at me and said, "What's the matter, never seen a captain in a dress before?" 

"Yes, sir, but she is my boss."  Then I went on w/ my forecast.  I wish I could remember the ship and his name.  No clue though.

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

<span>troll.</span>

LT B said...

Honey Badgers don't give a $h1t! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

Anonymous said...

Still laughing at the image of you self identifying as a female and trying to do their PT. 

Delta Bravo said...

JS-kit is useless.  That was me.  DB.

Old Nuke said...

oops....'<span>accidentily serve together', 'not </span><span>accidentily live together'</span>

Guest said...

And if the American people change their mind, I guess that would be okay with you too?  And, does anyone have a right to convince them to change their mind without being accused of bigotry?

Steel City said...

In all honesty, WGAF.  Way too many other issues/concerns within the Navy to worry about this.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

An indicator.  Not the disease, but a symptom of the disease.  Ignore the symptoms at your peril.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"That chick probably doesn't date much, but she is hell on that bench press!!!"

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

Hey, URR:  "they want you!  they want you!  they want you to join their crew!"

Anonymous said...

All of this hoopla after an "arduous" 80 day deployment (booze cruise) to Central America!

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Or, with apologies to the South Wales Borderers,

"Men of Harlech, watch your a**es,
We're now in the protected classes,
We wanna dress like fetching lasses,
And shag some Harlech men!"

Grandpa Bluewater said...

I think you forgot some folks.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

There's some of that, too.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

The only true test is combat. The Navy has seen little in recent decades. This measure was imposed without discernable concern that combat performance might be affected. No real way to test it.  The old way worked. Now we sail deeper into unknown seas.

We shall see.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Behold the advocates and activists. 

The military is not yet "ghey friendly" enough.  Stand by for further guidance as to how we are to be accepting of a man who is married with children and has a homosexual relationship. 

Oh, and "gay coffee hours".  Good thing there is not going to be any chance of homosexuals receiving special treatment and benefits a la the rest of the Diversity cabal.

Kristen said...

I'm not going to watch the video.  The picture saddens me enough.  Contrary to the sneering comments posted below, there are indeed servicemembers who have reluctantly begun the process of separation because they cannot be true to their religious and moral beliefs while being members of the new military.  The documents won't indicate that, of course.  It would be contrary to the official dogma that everyone is happy and all is well to put the real reason down.

Sooner rather than later, the Chaplain Corps is going to come under the same enormous pressure to abandon normative Christian sexual teaching.  Will our cowardly congressmen and senior officers stand up for them?  I sincerely doubt it.  Will the services be better off for these changes?  It's hard to to see how.

Jay said...

125 comments! Lol... Well, we are now a year into repeal. Haven't seen any of the dire consequences some of you were predicting (albeit, with a healthy dose of imagination, rather than reason...). Retention? Still at an all time high. Heck, even before the looming budget cuts, we need to shed folks! Same sex couples at the USMC Balls or other Services' celebrations? Happened...and...Yawn... Chaplains *forced* to marry same-sex couples against their religious beliefs? Didn't happen. Gays will be the new "protected class"! Ummmm...nope. WHAT WILL WE TELL THE CHILDREN!?!? How about the truth? Children handle it surprisingly well. Overall, this has been a great, big....non-story. As it should be. I'm proud of how our troops responded. I predict by next year there won't be many stories like the OAK HILL's on the news anymore, because it won't be new, or news. And even repeal opponents - like GEN Amos - have realized their fears were largely for naught.

Jay said...

Actually, it's pretty easy to see how - if you want your personal religious views to be followed by those who don't share your religion, then you are invited to find another profession. The Armed Services are better off without religious bigots.

Jay said...

Lol...because gay troops always get served top shelf coffee at the Green Bean kiosk, while the straight troops suffer and only get Maxwell House...absurd, as always, URR...

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Jhey,

You are one of the true architects of the Potemkin Village.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Jhey, you would be the first to throw a hissy if there were "straight coffee hours". 

WCOG said...

It wouldn't be okay with me but it would be the law. If you launch a campaign to reinstate the law then I would, indeed, accuse you of bigotry. But it would only be me insulting you, which I'm sure you're man enough to handle without help.

cdrsalamander said...

125+ comments ... yea ... we're having a ghey old time.

cdrsalamander said...

Jay,
Be nice to the ladies. She isn't a bigot. You don't help anyone by going to hyperbole.

We all need to work together on this, and in any event; remember the best marriage advice I ever received - he who yells last loses.

Spade said...

So the fact that the one lady is attracted to the other lady is going to adversly impact her ability to press a button or stand around somewhere?

andrewdb said...

I'm disappointed we haven't gotten those dating ads on the sidebar yet.

andrewdb said...

You have identified one of the biggest problems with the Defense of Marriage Act.  Their state-law marriage is not recognized by the Federal government, so it isn't a problem that can be addressed.  I agree that is an absurd result, but it _is_ the current state of the law.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Heh.  Sal always loves those  :-P

Did my IA said...

Hey Grandpa Bluewater,

What do you mean "true test is combat"?  

What about the 10's of thousands of us Officers and Sailors who have served on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan in the past 8 years?

This is not an unknown sea, we have been serving side by side with gay sailors since the first Navy ship went to sea.  

UltimaRatioRegis said...

There are 325,000 sailors, give or take. 

Excluding SEALs, how many rate combat action ribbons?

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

I love the mental image I get of the Media and the Liberal community infarcting right in front of our eyes after that!

Byron said...

You know, Jay, I'm going to come back later tonight and read this again. Maybe I'll be calm enough by then to respond in a manner befitting a civlized and well-mannered man of the South. Right now I'm mad enough for it to be unhealthy .

Next time, try telling a young lady like Kristen, "Excuse me, but I disagree". That's how a REAL officer and a gentleman would behave. For now, Jay, I ain't got Jack shit for you. You're a piece of crap that lives to muck rake and you decided to pick on someone who doesn't deserve your depradations or abuse.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Consequences that the Government is willing to accept having happened.

MR T's Haircut said...

<span>I appear to have caused a party foul as all of my posts on this subject were deleted.   Can one of the porch regulars please enlightened me as to what transpired?  Grazie...</span>

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Watch your mouth, Jay.  Byron isn't the only one where who will stand up for Kristen, she is a good young lady, and she deserves more respect than you are showing her.

DeltaBravo said...

Jay doesn't understand the dog in the manger attitude will affect lots of people.  Since he wants to FORCE those who preach and teach the Gospel to change it to suit him, he doesn't understand the many religious leaders/priests/orthodox rabbis who will be forced to resign their chaplancies rather than be forced to contradict their faiths.  That will deprive many many tens of thousands of military personnel of things like last rites, Communion, sacraments and counselling when they are too far to attend civilian ceremonies.  But far be it from Jay to care if anyone suffers so his freedom to rewrite scripture is not abridged.  There's a word for that.

DeltaBravo said...

Parentheses?  Sailor has a "girl" in every port....

;)

cdrsalamander said...

It was nothing I did.  I haven't deleted anyone's comments here.  The only way that could have happened would have been if you replied to a comment that the person later deleted.  As your comment was connected to it - it went away as well.  

Nothing I did though.  Anyway, with you shipmate - I'd stab you in the forehead; not the back. :)

cdrsalamander said...

What's wrong with Maxwell House?

Warrant Diver said...

<span>Spade, IA: Naval combat: mines blowing holes in enginerooms and cold water filling spaces no longer watertight; cruise missles punching holes in unarmored side plate and the solid rocket motors continuing to burn for 30 seconds, burning steel and melting aluminum; torpedoes blowing off the stern and popping shaft seals wide open to sea.   </span>
<span> </span>
<span>That's what Grandpa B is talking about. Will gheys do ok? Sure they will, because like "Did my IA" (congrats for you, welcome back) says they've been here the whole time. Straight/ghey doesn't matter when it comes to hauling the P-250 four decks up and down and dragging shoring the length of the ship.   </span>
<span> </span>
<span>But weighing 110 lbs soaking wet, that's a different story.</span>

Kristen said...

Thanks, guys.  I wish I could reach through the computer screen and give each of you a hug.

DB, exactly.

James said...

A knife that could get through Mr T's forehead? Better use a sword. :)

I pitty the fool........

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

If the gays are drinking all the expensive coffee, that leaves more Dad's Root Beer for me!

OutlawMike said...

Yup. That's it about. I've seen it happen. Here in Europe.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Badgers defend those they like. ( Actually, Badgers just like biting things, and will look for excuses.)

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Well said, Sir!

James said...

SERIOUSLY? Out of all the people here you pick on kristen?!

Thats like going walkingf into a room seeing a bunch of mean as hell pits, bulldogs,mastiffs and other assorted fighters then looking over seeing the nice lab in the corner looking sad. Then walking over and kicking it.....Kristen is like the most civilized nice person here..............

FOR GOD SAKES Sal puts warnings up for kristen on pages with violent or nasty content.

IF SHE IS A BIGOT GOD HELP US ALL.

Anonymous said...

The article says they met and were roomates at a training command.  So, was it just a case of luck that of the 10% of the popultion that is gay (that was a figure thrown around for quite a while, I don't know what the current PC number is) they happened to be roomates -or- did they room together for the first time young and away from home and helped each other through the tough times and learned the behavior.  Things that make you go hhhmmmm.  Were they gay in high school?  That would be an interesting fact to know.

Also, every other Navy that has integrated homosexuals has actually ended up with sexual preference segragrated barracks.  Not on purpose, but Timmy wants to room with Joey, what's the harm.  Susie wants to room with Julie, what's the harm.  But Timmy and Joey and Susie and Julie are all gay.  So, it's ok to room with your gay friend but not OK to room with a member of the opposite sex.

Jay said...

156! (157? Now? Lol...)

Anonymous said...

Who the hell got Maxwell House? All we ever got was lowest bidder crap in a 15 lb. green can with a NSN... 

At least we got Cadbury hot chocolate when we were in the 'loch...

Former 3364 said...

last guest post was me, sorry...

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Cadbury hot chocolate sounds wonderful!

Jay said...

You're almost there, DB...almost...any minister, chaplains of all demoninations, etc. can and should preach and teach - to those who voluntarily attend/participate in said minister's services. Being a Chaplain is a special charge - going above and beyond your particular faith's tenets, and acting in an ecumenical fashion, especially in remote areas. Not a surprise, I haven't heard of many (any?) Chaplains resigning over this issue. Perhaps that special charge dawned on them? Or perhaps they weren't as dedicated to the misuse of religion as the underpinnings of anti-gay attitudes all along? I'll assume it is evolution working here, not hypocrisy, in the true spirit of the Holiday Season...

SouthernAP said...

I have a question for anyone, what does it matter that one does with another person in the confines of thier bedroom? Also, why is this news? The questions that should be asked by the PhbRon commander, the base CO and even Fleet Forces is who in thier right mind with in the PAO offices, allowed this thing to become national news? Most of the time when a ship/squadron/unit comes home it doesn't go much further then the broadcast range of the strongest radio antenna. If we were honest about this being seemless transition and being a non-issue; then this would have been a local news thing or even a non-news thing.

Also, I am suprised CDR this came out on Wednesday and you usually don't have this much discussion about a diversity issue until Thursday. What are you trying to get ahead for the holidays and just hit the eggnog early?

Jay said...

Sal, ummmm...the work is done, it was done last December, well, it was done before them, but the vote needed to happen. The kids have moved out and moved on...

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Forced changes against the will of the changee is not evolution, it's  tyranny.

Anonymous said...

I've never had sex ed taught by a Chaplain.  If you don't want to work with gay people, good luck, we won't miss you.  Very same thing was said about integration.  Oh, everyone will leave.  I'm sorry but if you can only value someone's religion, color, or sexual orientation the military doesn't need you.  Why does the photo of two people that love each other sadden you?

Anonymous said...

We'll accept a man that cheats with a guy, the same way we accept the guys that cheat on their wives in Thailand, Singapore, and Hawaii.

Anonymous said...

The Federal Government doesn't recognize the marriages of gay people.

Anonymous said...

I don't see how this act between two people affect what you may teach to your children.  Please connect the dots.

Anonymous said...

You proved the point most eloquently by quoting what I said you'd do, then doing it.  It was pretty awesome:
<span>**"...lets the weak minded self identify by challenging me for not choosing a name rather than analyze the thoughts."  
Sounds to me like your a self rightous arrogant little prick.**</span>

Someday you'll get beyond the insults, today wasn't that day.

Anonymous said...

"<span>Why the military shouldn't just force throught gays in the military."</span>
-Can you tell me what that is asking? I don't understand it.

Anonymous said...

Any officer that gets booted for frat is no loss at all.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Nope, you don't see.  Question is why?

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

You don't seem to see beyond a person's sexual tastes. As long as they are gay, that is all that is required of them? Have you read Animal Farm? When were the homosexuals elected the pigs of the world?

There has been a societal discomfort with homosexuality for thousands of years, for such a discomfort to last that long, there has to be a valid reason for it's existance.  Your being made to feel all warm and fuzzy because you are so open minded is not a good enough reason for the destruction of the combat effectiveness of the US Military.

Theodore Roosevelt one said that one must have an open mind, but it should not be so open that geese roam freely through it. People like you, who fall automatically on the " you disapprove of something I like, so you are an evil racist/bigot/homophobe " argument, are people that all I can hear is the honking when you speak. You can do whatever you want, with whomever you want, if it doesn't effect me, but when it lowers my national security, it effects us all, and your fuzzy feeling counts for nothing in comparison.

If we are going to have small female sailors on combat ships of the USN, we are going to accept that next time, FRANKLIN, LAFFEY, BUNKER HILL, HAZELWOOD, and BIRMINGHAM won't be coming home.

Whether a sailor is homosexual or not is immaterial, until you start locking people up on ships, where you will soon have the same problems that you will have on co-ed ships. You will soon have people forming relationships that have no place on  man of war, with fueds and tensions effecting the efficent running of the ship.  We see it all the time on shore in the civilian sector. As a cop, I spend far to much of my time on domestic disputes. The isolation inherent in the closed society of a ship can only make things worse, and this is just as applicable to heterosexual crews on co-ed ships. Just ask anyone who has served on one. Paint lockers aren't just for paint any more. 

So do me a favor, and stop the nonsense about those of us who put the good of the Fleet above people being able to do things on thier terms, rather than those of the Navy, because you are wrong.  At least I can make a better argument than, " You are a bigot, because you don't believe what I do".  

UltimaRatioRegis said...

A bedroom is not a barracks room.  Or a berthing space. 

DeltaBravo said...

Jay, the repeal is not a year old.... the implementation is a bit newer than that.  Give it time for those with an agenda to move to the next level.  First comes forced acceptance.  Then comes the part where they silence those who don't approve.   Just because you've never had sex ed taught by a chaplain leads me to believe you've never heard a priest in a sermon at Mass discuss sexual morality.  I'm waiting for someone to listen in and then run like a little yeller dog to the powers that be and stir up trouble.  The job of the chaplain isn't to kowtow to the party line, it's to help the service members save their immortal souls in the manner in which their faith teaches. None of which has anything to do with valuing people as persons but everything to do with discussing actions that some creeds still teach are sinful.  (And yes, they teach that cheating on your spouse on liberty in Hong Kong is sinful too.)

andrewdb said...

Kristen, I would suggest the First Amendment will protect the free exercise of religion by Chaplains.  Recall that the UUs, UCC and MCC have ordained gay folks for many years, but they haven't been allowed to serve as Chaplains until Repeal.

The bigger problem with the Chaplain Corps is the extraordinary number of evangelical chaplains, many of whom have come from Liberty University's on-line seminary (40% is a number I recall, but can't find a link for it - compared to something like ).  If they are willing to support all of their troops (including the non-christian ones) that's OK.  The problem is when the chaplain sees his job as converting the troops to his specific brand of religion.  I believe you are Roman Catholic (the largest single denomination in the services).  This should concern you as much as it does me, an active Mainline Protestant.

Byron said...

Jay, I think I've heard you say that you were an 0-5/0-6...and if that is the case, you have to be a seriously shitty officer. God help anyone under your orders, they are so screwed. The only reason why you show up here and at USNI is to take a contrarian position. The only reason why you do that is to give yourself relevance. Sad to hear that, that they only way you can get yourself to feel good is to stir a pot of crap up so people will go back and forth with you. That being the case (and after nearly 18 years of message boards, IRC chat and running a mailing list for discussions, I know whereof I speak) from this point on I will no longer engage in any manner of conversation with or about you. I strongly suggest that everyone follow my example as it is the only way to get that stinking troll back under the bridge where he belongs. BE GONE, FOUL TROLL!

The Usual Suspect said...

Away, away, away we go with the fife and drum,
And up we come all full of rum,
Looking for women to peddle their buns,
In the North Atlantic Squadron.

The cabin boy, the cabin boy was quite a little nipper,
He lined his ass,
With broken glass,
And circumcised the skipper.

DeltaBravo said...

Andrew you touch on something here.... the large number of Catholics in the service.  The Catholic Church's stance on the active practice of homosexuality (as opposed to orientation, which is different) is not a secret.  If Catholic chaplains are forced out, there are many who will have to evaluate a career that keeps them from key practices of their religion for long periods of time, sometimes years.  There is already a shortage of Catholic chaplains.  Do the politically correct leaders really want to make it worse?  (Yeah... I know.  It was just a rhetorical question.)

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Do you regret ever having posted this, Sal?

LT B said...

For example...  We have two females we can not send out to sea together as they were former lovers and on one trip, the VERY butch one drove the other lesbian's head into the bulkhead.  Hmmmm, did they fire her for assault?  Another dude hit another dude and he got fired.  And as per the pic/video.  I really don't care, I like libstick lez's, but the fact they called the press for this is what is at issue in my view.

WCOG said...

Man alive, it got real after I logged off last night. No parting shots from me, I think everything has been said. :-[

cdrsalamander said...

No. A free society require a venue for people to freely express their opinions.  If not here, where? People don't have to agree - but they need to hear the other side.

URR and I are on opposite sides of this issue, and I can understand his position - in a fashion. Like I said about DADT years ago - good people can disagree on this topic. 

You can never deal with something you don't talk about. So ... let people at it.  More heat than light? Perhaps.  Do I regret the post? No.

Anonymous said...

Ahh yes, the name calling from Regis.  Good explanation about how this affects what you teach your children.  I think it has nothing to do with you and your family.  Would it be appropriate for them to decide what you teach your children?  No.  So why do you feel the need to pass judgement on them?

Anonymous said...

How do you manage to get along in a professional world if you can't value people, and value their contribution to the team? "That's the way it's always been" is a poor excuse for critical thinking.

cdrsalamander said...

I do not consider homosexual issues inside the Diversity lifelines.  The Diversity Industry would like it to be so they can have another scab to pick at so it won't heal and therefore they can get another paycheck - but I won't play their game or accept their premise.

From a strictly physical attraction POV: I have a thing for two types of women; those with naturally dark curly hair, and alabaster skinned red-heads. That is my type of personality-neutral physical attraction. If they are tall on top of it - then my brain is close to useless until I shake off the initial shock of seeing them. Don't hate; I'm a mammal.  

If instead I was attracted instinctively to women of sub-Saharan African extraction or fell in love with one of the same - 50 years ago that would have been illegal in many parts of the USA - and to openly be seen with such a women would have killed my career.

I see it in that light.  What makes your skin flush or who you prefer to spend your weekends with should not matter in any way shape or form between consenting adults in a free society. The comparison is inexact - but I have seen same-sex couples with healthier relationships and closer bonds than heterosexual couples. Good for them - life is too short to live full of regret and self-loathing. I can't take from another human being something I have been blessed with for well over two decades with Mrs. Salamander. Without her I would be lost, hollow, and less of a man. 

Anyone or anything that tried to keep me away from her would bring out in me such anger and disgust that not only would I never support that entity - I would actively strive to destroy that which was out to destroy me.

Your mileage may differ.

Anonymous said...

OMG how do Chaplains deal with those that eat red meat on Fridays, or have sex out of wedlock?  Given the amount of premarital sex in the military, one would think all the Catholics that were absolutists would have left long ago.  How dare people use condoms?  I don't recall them drawing the line anywhere else, just another excuse to complain.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

The explanation is there, yet you choose not to acknowledge it. 

Instead, you tell me what does and does not have to do with my family.  And try to couch it by telling me that teaching my values to my children is somehow inappropriate "passing of judgment".

But I think you do see.  And have nothing to counter the fundamental point, so you start with the smoke and accusations.

Stu said...

Human desires, no matter how strong, in themselves do not demonstrate that such a desire is either healthy or good for society.  All such arguments that simply rely on "what does it hurt" or "they seem to be getting along better than the norm" completely sidestep the latter.  

Largebill said...

Same here, brother.
When I joined being queer was expressly forbidden.
Then it became sort of okay, but hey keep that nonsense to yourself.
Now, it's okay to flaunt your perversions and anyone who says the word fag or queer is going straight to mast.
Let's be glad we retired before it becomes mandatory.

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

Bull.  They have already incorporated it into their mags.  Whether or not you want it to be there is your own personal politics, in my humble opinion.  You can't pick and choose what the diversity industry is going to ramp up about...they do.  And they have chosen this issue.  So why didn't we see this picture on DivThurs?

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

Ok children, gather round.  Daddy is going to tell you a story about Bobby and Jimmy, two of daddy's coworkers, who happen to be dating.  No, we do not believe in this.  Why?  Because of our religion and morals.  No, I know that isn't what Mrs. Folmer taught you in school.  Why are they kissing when daddy came home?  Because they won a Navy contest.  No, they won't have babies like mommy and daddy.  They'll go to the government and get their kid.  No, they won't get married in a church.  They'll go to the government to get their wedding.  Yes, the government sure does do a lot of things for them that they can't otherwise do themselves.

Stu said...

Give Jay credit.  He is true to the movement here. It has never, ever been about tolerance.  It's about forced acceptance.  No doubt about it.  

Watch this video about Frank Turek (who incidentally is a former Naval Officer)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5QOVtxFBpY

Yes, it happened in the civilian world but it's coming to a military venue near you.  Bank on it.

YOU. MUST. ACCEPT.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>I do not consider homosexual issues inside the Diversity lifelines."</span>

All due respect, O Host of Porch, but it matters not a lick what you think.  It matters what the activists and advocates think, and just what the Diversity zampolits sees they can gain from yet another politically protected victim group, namely perpetuation of a whole lot of jobs and $$$$ that, despite being irrelevant and counter productive for forty years, remain firmly entrenched and growing in influence.  

It doesn't matter what gay service members think.  It matters what the activists (GLBT Alliance, GLAAD, etc.) think, and how quickly they can get a spineless DoD leadership to dance to their tune.

It has never been about serving quietly and honorably to those people.  And will never be.  Were it such, it would be "Don't Ask, Don't Care".   But they will WANT you to care.  If they are not in your face with pushing the agenda farther and farther, they are the worst of all things, irrelevant.  So they do.  As they had planned to do from the beginning.  Mullen was too stupid to know it or too afraid to oppose it.

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

You know, I'm sure that all the men who object should just quit the military.  Then the fabulous ones can defend us.  I'm sure we can go up to Dupont circle and find enough of them to do the job.  

I laugh everytime Jhey and others try to quote the movie tombstone "well bye" when folks want to leave because of the DADT repeal.  Not enough homosexuals in San Francisco to defend our country.  We still depend on midwestern and southern white christian men to do the majority of the heavy lifting.   That is a fact, uncomfortable as it may be to some of you.  Deal with it.

Stu said...

Transgender rules will change.  If everybody can serve...then everybody can serve.  

Adversus Omnes Dissident said...

You got an AFG or IRQ campaign ribbon.  Not the same thing as a CAR.  If you have one, God Bless You and thank you for braving the bullets for our country.  If not, don't mix metaphors again.

Stu said...

URR is absolutely correct.  Diversity protection is coming.  Let's not kid ourselves.  

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