Saturday, October 15, 2011

Humanitarian Imperialism Marches On

Shall I do one of my favorite things, quote myself? Sure.

From my post over at USNIBlog back in March of this year;
Is it in the American interest to have our children borrow money from the Chinese so we can send our armies though the earth searching for dragons to slay, to do the fighting for others who will not do it for themselves?
I guess the answer is to many, yes.
Two days ago President Obama authorized the deployment to Uganda of approximately 100 combat-equipped U.S. forces to help regional forces “remove from the battlefield” – meaning capture or kill – Lord’s Resistance Army leader Joseph Kony and senior leaders of the LRA.
The forces will deploy beginning with a small group and grow over the next month to 100. They will ultimately go to Uganda, South Sudan, the Central African Republic, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo, with the permission of those countries.
Where to next? Burma? Any dozen other nightmare African despot-laden backwaters?

R2P - take a number.

BT

I'm falling off the grid for a day or so. Byron, take the troll watch; I'll talk to you soon. The swamp is calling.

67 comments:

WCOG said...

To be fair, Joseph Kony is in need of mortality right quick. The guy is a real b@&tard.

ewok40k said...

I might say Burma is the least likely candidate, it is too close friend to China... Sigh.
Well, maybe France should have kept its budget tight and army at home in 1770s, it would save it a Great Terror and us such dilemmas as the British Empire would rule the world even today :P

LT B said...

The Gators have a home game and you are going?

BT

I have been expecting this for awhile.  And I've seen traffic that says the mil is not all that excited about doing this.  Of the groups in Africa that we need to crush, this is not the bigger ones, IMHO. 

Byron said...

Set the troll watch, aye, sir! Lt. Col. URR, alert the Marine Detachment, prepare to repel boarders.  Sid, wake that damn Badger up, tell him to get his butt out of that hole! Lt. B, I want a close eye kept on the weather, I expect heavy rolls while the Skipper is away.

That is all.


:)

UltimaRatioRegis said...

URR is Oscar Mike back to the People's Republic from Quanny-co for most of today, but will be on station at 0700 16 October. 

I will be reciting the Eleventh Commandment. 

"Thou shalt use thine turn signal while changing lanes upon the Jersey Turnpike."

LazyChop said...

WCOG, agreed. Kony needs to go, and I guess I really don't see the problem with this Op.

James said...

So....wars in africa are OK now? Why isnt a war in Iran OK now? Or a war in about 2 dozen more places around the world that need some US raid sprayed on em?

Why? WE DONT HAVE A BIG ENOUGH MILITARY!. So now we are cutting it and getting into more wars that makes sense.

xformed said...

Well....so are many.  Wy all of a sudden are we the not just the "World's Police Force" but the "world's Assination Squad?"  You'd think, after all the clamoring of the lefites over the years about wars for oil, they would be up in arms for the use of military force, especially when it's not trainers, but SF teams, told to us as armed...."but will only fight to defend themselves!"  (I know they will be armed, but a statement like that on day one is preparing us for the release that "a few hours ago, our courageous service mebers killed the leader of the LRA.")

At least in the "good old days," like it or not, you could see a reasonable connection to our national security/economic interests.  Now it's like wanting to stimulate the entire economy by sending millions of dollars directly to hand picked (union and green energy) jobs.  I'm sure there will be the need to send more foreign aid into a pit where it's pretty well proved they will do nothing but keep killing each other over what ever purpose.  And funny that....we aren't doing much of nothing about Dafur, isn't it...same place, similar situation, but a government is getting away with committing genocide, and it's Ho Hum to The WON!.

He sure knows how to pick allies, doesn't he...

xformed said...

Seems like The WON! is either repaying a favor, or lining up another major donor.  Sorry...cynic that I am....And to think we thought renting out the Lincoln Bedroom was a horrible stain on the Presidency.  I'll take Billy Clinton and his trnasgenedered wife any day after all of this.  Renting the military?  I hope this never shows up, but it seems kinda too spooky to not be true these days.

xformed said...

Come to FL.  They actually cut the turn signal wires in the car you buy.  It's how they ID "foreigners" to give tickets to....ever wondered why there's no state income tax?  LOL.  But if you borrow Byrons, 82 F-150, you'll be fine....

xformed said...

War with little p1$$ and enemies are just dandy.  Like any bully, you can look cool, and claim victory with little risk of failure (unless all the MANPADs disappear...gee...who with any experience didn't see the arsenal of the soon to be vanquished going on the black market?  And China, I hear, has some excess cash...), while taking on a genocidal nation results in many flag draped coffins....and riots in the streets, so you can't get elected to imeprious President again.

Byron said...

Snort...more like my 99 Escort LE stick that gets 36 mpg...the perfect shipyard car...Every now and then the wife allows me to drive her very nice 2010 Hyundai Elantra...for the proce, a very nice car that in my opinion is every bit as nice as the Camry for a few thousand less. And xformed, my turn signals work, and anyone who ignores them does so at their peril ;)

Largebill said...

I'll concur with those who say that Kony sounds like a seriously bad person (even by crazy African bad guy standards). However, that doesn't mean I'm on board with this decision for several reasons. First, I'm skeptical enough to questions whether reports from a dump like Uganda about a rabble rouser are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Second, I think we found out in the 1960's that sending a small group of "advisors" into someone elses civil war can end up growing into something you never intended. Lastly, and most importantly, we have no compelling national interest in Uganda. Bad idea and another example of amateur hour in DC.

xformed said...

I kept mine, too, but I often wonder if there's more truth in that concep than I'd like to really believe...

xformed said...

The WON!:  Short on history.  It's hard to pay attention to it when you think you are it....

Andy said...

CAS checking in, overhead at Angels One Eight, will advise if we need to bingo to the tanker to top off.

In RE: African deployment. Look at a map of where Kony has been operating, and then insert an AFRICOM presence at the point where so many of those borders come together.  IMHO, it's very little about the actual mission and all about geo-politics. We'll see.

ewok40k said...

Well, marines spent half of their between-world-wars period supporting United Fruit Company in the Carribean... so rent-a-military ain't new.

Largebill said...

The laughable part of this action being undertaken by this administration is the hypocrisy. As a Ill. state senator and during his very brief tenure as a U.S. Senator, Barack Obama repeatedly denounced military action taken by his predecessor for not being a vital interest of the country. One could argue whether Iraq was an immenent threat or whether the more time should have been spent negotiating/inspecting, etc. However, there is no way to argue that Iraq which was 1) training terrorists, 2) targeting our planes enforcing no-fly zones, 3) paying families of suicide bombers in Israel, 4) attempting to reconstitute their WMD program was less of a vital interest than Uganda. Uganda is of no importance to us whatsoever as far as I can tell. So this dishonest halfwit who called Bush and Cheney war criminals is engaging in foreign military action with a lot less justification.

xformed said...

Let's add a little more to the fire:  <span>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/earlyshow/main20120395.shtml?tag=pop;stories  It seems the Gunwalker fiasco included helping to make sure there were grenade components and a builder in this program, and they did get to the drug cartels.  Excuse me, but aren't we using drones to kill bomb makers across the ME, yet...the ATF is making sure someone can build them to kill us and Meixan (and Saudi Arabian) citizens?</span>
Time to tell the House it's time to impeach.  This gets worse by the day and note the story is from CBS....must bee getting bad for The WON! these days, even the MSM is outing his practices...

butch said...

There are lots of dirtbags who need and desrve killin'.  But why should the  US expend blood and treasure to do so if they are not threats to our national interest?

Is this one of those "It's okay because a Dem is in the WH" justifications?

xformed said...

Yes, but didn't we quit doing that? Unless, of course, it's meal on wheels, of chase and assinate....

Skippy-san said...

Very true. Same logic could be applied to Iraq as well.

And besides-Africom has to justify that big staff in Germany

LT B said...

VFR conditions due to my sunny disposition. 

Byron said...

One can only wonder where our fine friend Jay the Liberal who loves the Won like no other stands on this....

Byron said...

"<span>VFR conditions due to my sunny disposition." No doubt assisted by lazy afternoons on the deck behind the JAX NAS O Club eating a Dairy Queen Blizzard :) </span>

AW1 Tim said...

  I don't want to see a single US dollar spent on military action ANYWHERE until we secure our southern and Canadian borders with enough firepower to destroy anything trying to cross at anyplace other than where WE say they can cross.

  Once that is done, then I'll consider signing on to other ideas.

   I am all for building "Fortress America" and then interceding only on behalf of those who are willing to risk their own lives and treasure to secure their own freedoms.

   respects,

James said...

There is the other option. Throw tomahawks at it then when it is over dont replace them and leave the navy's arsenal even dryer than when you started....

People wonder why i rarely meet a person in the service at the time who says "Hey that clinton guy? He was so AWESOME!"

LT B said...

Or Breyer's.  i'm flexible.  For some, it's a cold beer, for me it's a good steak and some good ice cream. 

ewok40k said...

I am pretty sure the terrible hordes of Canadians are waiting to invade the US... And they still wear red coats!
Agree totally on the Mexican border, though.
As for those willing to risk their lives, how about some 3000+ Syrians lately?
As for US vital interests, how do a few thousands of Chinese building various infrastructure in Bahamas look?
It is never easy decision, when to intervene and when not.

ewok40k said...

As would be selling TOW-s to Iran, back in the day...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair
I wonder if a few  ended up hitting a Merkava or something...

James said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SDrqa-eTXU

Death to those maple leafed bastards!!!

Salty Gator said...

Primary Control Ship checking in.....ballasted down 4 feet at the sill, stand by for gators feet wet.  GREEN WELL!  Form up  at LOD Alpha and stand by to make your run on red beach.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Drunk wit power already.
Sheesh.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Now, now.  Clinton shot off all the THs and didn't replace them because we had an "acquisition holiday".  Why do you want to spoil someone's holiday?  Come on!

Byron said...

Hey, Grandpa, you got the next watch! I can't do OOD and CDO all freakin' day long! OSSN, get me some coffee and none of that damn mocha joka stuff!

Surprisedattheresponse said...

When I first heard the decision to fight the LRA I felt it was good policy.  They are a notorious gang that commits unspeakable acts of violence against young, old, men, women and children.  What took us so long? America has an interest here too.  Africa has the potential to engage in rapid development over the next century.   China is investing heavily on the continent...what better way to start building admiration and respect for the U.S. than by using our military expertise to help destroy a heavily armed criminal entreprise.  I would be proud to be among the hundred selected.  I thought this was one of the best decisions of a presidency that I have otherwise grown frustrated with. 

AW1 Tim said...

  Folks thought thatthe decision to send advisors to Vietnam was also a good idea. 

  Thing is, all those Special Forces advisors needed logistical support. That meant air bases for helos, and fuel depots and warehouses. That meant SeaBees and Army Engineers. That meant barracks and dining halls and recreational facilities. All of that meant support folks like admin types and paymasters and dispensaries and corpsmen, et al.

  of course, all of that needed to be guarded, so there were MP's galore.

  Then, of course, all of those expansions required further combat support, so a few battalions of legs were brought in, and then the Marines were sent in to seize areas along the coast.

  of course, Charlie wasn't just laying around watching. he was busy responding to all of this, so that meant fixed-wing air support. then there was a need for airal recon to assess strike packages, damage, etc.  then the Marines, of course, needed CAS, so a couple carriers parked off shore seemed like the thing to do. Of course, naval gunfire support was also called for, so there was that bit of escalation.....

  All this because some president decided to send a couple hundred SF adviors to help out a small country.

  10 years and 54,000 casualties later.......

  See where I'm going with this?

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

With Sal going away, and with Delta Bravo and I working down in the sub porch burrows to keep you all in food and drink topside, I want to take the time to thank Sal, who bought us two restored to new condition trucks, a 1949 GMC panel truck, and a 1956 Ford flatbed. Both in Salamander orange.  Delta, I am gonna take the Ford to the booze wholesalers, if you wana take the GMC, and go get stuff to cook on the Weber on the porch.  I think we may be out of Ketchup.  I will leave the keys to the GMC on the desk in your office in Burrow 3 West, Level 6, by the loading dock.  Could you please check, while you are down there, if I remembered to plug the forklift in? 

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

You can't trust Canukistan!

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

I'll send some up on the porch edge food and drink elevator.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

As Fr. Guido Sarducci once pointed out, Canada is closer to the United States than Manhattan is to Brooklyn!

DeltaBravo said...

No Ketchup.  BBQ sauce.  Gonna start a fight between thems that think BBQ should be pork and thems that think it should be beef.  And then we'll argue over wet and dry. 

(For those sick of arguing about Canada, I'll give you something new to argue about.)  Yay!  Truck! 

Byron said...

Chop, didn't I tell you I wanted gumbo on the menu today? We can eat BBQ anytime we want, and with the Captain gone, we don't have to eat those damn ducks him and his dogs keep bringing back! Gumbo, dammit, or everyone is on report!!! Where the hell is my ball bearings! Did anyone see Lt. Sid? I know he got my damn bearings!

Andy said...

Tim,
I do see where you're going with this, but while I appreciate your concerns let's look at some of the way this is NOT like Vietnam: There are no patron states sponsoring these thugs.  They have no state-sponsored safe havens, no major suppliers of weapons and munitions, and are operating extra-territorially.  The landscape is not unpenetratable jungle and there is no one, for the most part, who wants these guys around.  But I have to agree that while it's an "attractive" mission, why now?

Salty Gator said...

Sigh......as if enough ships aren't on the rocks already, we gave the keys to a ship builder...

DeltaBravo said...

If anyone notices Sal's palm tree got thrown overboard, go blame Byron.

(Just sayin'... wasn't me...)

Byron said...

Palm tree missing!! Oh my God! URR, roll out the ready squad! Mr. T, get the rest of your MAs out! I want the whole ship searched from stem to stern from keel to mizzen tops! Well, except for my stateroom that is, wouldn't want anyone to see traces of chlorophyl on my khakis.... Oops! Forget I said that last. YN2 Gauthier, strike that last part from the log!

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Pulver, huh?  How is it that I've never seen you, Pulver?

Bistro said...

well, laundry and morale sir.....

Byron said...

Pulver? Never heard the name before in my life. Hey, Chop, make sure you have plenty of strawberries for when the CO gets back, you know how he likes those damn strawberries!! Hey, you, the Laundry Officer, I thought I told you not to starch my khakis? Do it again and I'll raise the black flag and get the gangplank out! ARRGGG MATIES!

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>There are no patron states sponsoring these thugs.... </span><span>there is no one, for the most part, who wants these guys around."</span>

Au contraire.  The BP article outlines what has been estimated for some time now.

DeltaBravo said...

CO is back.  Seems when he "fell of the grid" he was talking about the physics matrix grid thingie we all adhere to.  LOL.

He returns to the usual porch fun.  (The porch seems to be listing heavily to starboard.)

Byron said...

CO is back? When? How come he didn't get gonged aboard? I want to see Master Chief Grandpa on the quarterdeck ASAP!


(Jeez, you guys could have at least given a guy a little warning!)

Surfcaster said...

Speaking of ShipShape (not the once marginally good TV show) I wonder if many of you have seen this one:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/2-5-million-chinese-yacht-goes-straight-down-161517593.html

DM05 said...

Here's hoping the swamping was good, clearly many things being taken care of on the porch by the crew, Byron being a taskmaster. Meanwhile our emperor fiddles and places boots on the ground again. Sadly.

James said...

Keep the Christains down lest they rise up and strike back for hundreds of years of slavery.

I remember one of my class mates in highschool was angered by what the 'white man" had done to blacks. He was a liberal person thought we deserved to pay for it (though not him of course-sense he was only Half white).

So i looked at him and asked a simple question. Who sold those evil white southerners those slaves? He said it was us who went in and took them. I laughed and told him nope....it was Arab muslims mainly with the help of some blacks and a few whites but mostly the other two.

If Blacks in this country or indead the world knew what arabs had been doing in africa for hundreds of years before any of us evil "imperialist" showed up they would be sick.

A little hint: Arab Muslims are told they cannot own slaves who are muslims as well as a number of other rules.......so the arabs get the biggest black children and castrate them. Then train them so that when they are big and strong when they tell the slave to Beat or hurt another muslim it is not breaking the laws of god-atleast in their eyes.

Apparently they also liked sudanese women they had bigger chest.....even at 12 or 13.

cdrsalamander said...

Where's the coffee?  Real Navy coffee?  Who the frack decided a wardroom needed all this flavored FOD?

D@mnit ... and its all decalf.  What in the wide world of sports is going on here?

cdrsalamander said...

<span>E40,  
If taking on the LRA is so important - then where is Poland's 100 troops on the ground?  OK, I'll tell you what.  We're take Uganda and Poland can take all the fistula producing nightmare gangs in Eastern Congo.  All yours.</span>

Byron said...

Crap...CHENG! Get some of the mud from CCS up to the COs stateroom right now! Ensign AR, I TOLD you to get that crap out of the wardroom!

Crap, there goes my eval.... :)

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Andy,

Didn't say pointed exclusively at Christians.  But that is what they get the Sudanese Arab $$ for. 

Nope, not our first go round with these animals.  Open question to our amateur-hour foreign policy team:  Why did you make this one public?  Was the publicity of "See me and my Administration doing SOMETHING!" more important than working out of sight to whack these turds?

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Master Chief? Never attained that honor. Them that has, says so.

Byron said...

Grandpa, I got a feeling you'd be a pretty damn good one, not withstanding your retired officer status (and I personally won't hold that against you ;)   )

SouthernAP said...

Sal,

It was the JOPA. They thought it would be a good idea to bring the flavored water onboard. The FCPOA tried to stop them while we were in the Sandbox, but they wouldn't listen. Something about you complaining the last round of coffee onloaded was too tart or too horrible even for your best of hated opponents; got to look good for the skipper in the wardoom they said to us.

SouthernAP said...

Rumor control according to some friends in the five-sided wind tunnel says this is pay back to Uganda for supporting anti-terror/anti-AQ ops in Somalia while part of the African Union mission earlier this past year. So they came hat in hand to the kids in Foggy Bottom basically saying, "Hey about that Somalia thing... You owe us and we don't want no Peace Corps" where as the kids in Foggy Bottom translated that into sending some Green Beenies into Uganada to help build up the anti-LRA militias in the region.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Truck, YAY!  I thought it was nice that he did have both switched to 12V systems, and had Blaupunkt stereos put in.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

You didn't hear the SALAMANDER ARRIVING over the 1MC?  There is a speaker on the porch.

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