Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Mayport; The next Charleston?


As the plans for the Fleet keep getting smaller and smaller, jobs and money will get scarcer - and people will start to fight for it.

Talk is already there of the Virginia long-knives coming for Mayport - but I am an optimist. I just don't think that our nation, even in the financial stress that we will be under, would be so foolish as to trap its entire Atlantic Fleet in one port.

Let's go with the idea that Mayport won't go the way of NS Charleston, that we keep it. That does not remove some of the coming challenges.

As outlined by some of the Salamander underground; here are some thoughts:
1. The airfield and the helo squadrons are scheduled to be moved to JAX NAS; in its place will be UAV units.
2. The buildings that the contractors use on Supply St. will be leveled and in their place will be the building to handle nuclear material and the shops to work on the CVN that may show in 2016.
3. By then, there may be but a half dozen ships left at Mayport. Unless LCS show early in numbers (which isn't expected), there won’t be a lot to work to keep industry busy enough to stay in business due cyclic nature of ops. Those jobs won't wait. How many companies will actually stick around? How much will you lose when you have to bring them back or take your ships elsewhere for the work that used to be done on-site.

From a Strategic POV - having at least one CVN at Mayport is good - from an industrial capacity POV - a little more diversity and number of ship types would be useful.

Use it or lose it.

25 comments:

ewok40k said...

one port, entire ocean fleet, where did i see it?

LCDR Black said...

They are building new houses at NAS Jax.  There is a whole bunch of new housing down from the senior officer housing.  They may be making space for the air wing?

LT B said...

Yeah, hopefully Phib can delete that before anybody loads a trojan.

MR T's Haircut said...

Coasties should share with the Navy.. at least they have actual warships...

Steel City said...

Instead of a CVN and all of the issues associated with the N piece of the equation why not homeport 1-2 ARGs instead similar to the arrangement in Sasebo?  Many of the humanitarian missions that supposedly would be better served by L-ships anyhow occur in that geographical area of the world anyhow.  I'm having a hard time on the down-side to this proposal especially considering the reduced cost to make Mayport N capable.  Sure it's a little further from Mayport to Jax, NC than from Norfolk but not so much so that it makes this undoable.

Byron said...

Ah...we've been saying this ever since that stupid Senator of ours started this mess. I mean, why spend the ungodly amount of money it would take to make Mayport nuke capable for one lousy carrier...

KEEP THE DAMN CARRIERS!

e ringer said...

rip mayport mafia. 

leesea said...

Byron add the local representative to the stupid is as stupid does list~!

The new problem with bringing in an ARG, is that there may be fewer of them (see Sal's other thread on (ALT POM BOMB).

But I do suppor the ARG plus escorts idea.  And I want to see the wharf at BIC expanded to 1000 ft to help the Marines work.

leesea said...

nice strategic thinking, now how about thinking about the economy and more particularly the Navy budget hits which ARE coming.

leesea said...

check out where the Marines logistic base is in GA, follow the rail lines down to Blount Island. check out the Marine base and command there.  Only USMC base in CONUS with its own wharf.

Keep Macdonald Field at Mayport for Marine helos to come into, then be loaded.  Ecer seen how cumbersome that is at NOB or LCRK?

I have NOT seen much strategic thinking of the logisitic type concerning the USMC and Mayport.

MR T's Haircut said...

Yea that Stupid Sen Nelson is a total empty suit.. idiot.. I am doing all I can to see he doesnt get reelected.. douchery

Scott Brim, USAF Partisan said...

Naval blockade, Hampton Roads, Virginia, 1862  -- plus associated nastiness.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h59000/h59214.jpg

Retired Now said...

So, in just a few more years, you say that NAVSTA Mayport will only have a half dozen or so ships left ? And then it makes no economical sense (like that's the only way to think now), to keep that medium sized base open any longer ??

Well, Florida and Navy will n-e-v-e-r (ever) close Naval Air Station Pensacola. Which BTW, has beautiful, modern, spacious, very deep piers that can easily dock/serve 6 or more DDG or FFG sized USN ships.

So..... If the goal is simply to do whatever BEAN-COUNTERS say.... Then.......

Hey, at least some Navy warships can remain home-ported in beautiful Florida !

.

FOG said...

Probably getting ready for the P-8A/BAMS invasion . . . . . .

Byron said...

And in case none of you picked up on this, gutting or worse yet closing Mayport will have a huge negative impact on the economy of Jacksonville, especially the Beaches and East Arlington. One hell of a lot of people who are in the Navy and live there or work directly for the Navy and live there or supply goods and services who live there. When it goes away, one hell of a lot of people will be without a job...including yours truly who still planned to work a few more years and really needed to. These actions are going to put one brutal hit on our economy. Peoples lives and dreams and hard work will go up in smoke, all to satisfy the vain lies of politicians who can't see the pork they vote for and instead focus on the military...those who stand in the way of the dark hordes.

And I sincerely hope that Jesse Jacksons idea for giving all unemployed people 45,000 bucks comes through. I might need it. Hell, the 200 people  work with, and the 1000 more at Mayport might need it.

Also, in the "stupid is as stupid does" category, Mayport and the Navy is getting ready to completely rebuild the base gym. They also just finished tearing down half the older homes in on-base housing and buidling nice two story duplexes. And why? Why are we still spending a butt ton of money on plans for a nuke carrier? (and it's a lot of money they're spending right now).

This crap just pisses me off.

Anonymous said...

byron:

if your area has a new set of liberal congress critters, or no politicians that are in office long enough to swing a lot of weight in the committees then start looking for real estate back in the boonies.

go down and have a really long hard talk with the local newspaper and media types, cause if they don't support you you're toast.

been there done that.

when long beach closed we lost ~6,000 civilian jobs in the yard, ~4,000 unform paychecks for those on board the ships in the yard, 1300 civilian paychecks at the naval station and 15,000 military paychecks at the naval station. the local townsfolk said that that was ok as we had Douglas (now Boeing). but thats' going to be gone when the C-17 finishes and that, in the heydays, was 120,000 folks walking in and out the gates of two plants.  

watch for them litrally destroying the facilities and putting container yards for asian shipping companies in their place.

C

MR T's Haircut said...

you wont take anyones money no matter who the Jackson is giving it away.  I know that..

MR T's Haircut said...

Retired, Navy came close to shuttering the doors after Ivan.... Never ever say "never, ever"..

Boat School Grad said...

Wow...

I did a Midshipman Summer cruise in Mayport in 1980 on an old FF and the ships were tied up three deep on the sea wall.  The CO of my ship was junior so we had to walk out to the third ship.  Not fun when hung over. 

ewok40k said...

given 8 carrier navy from a few posts up makes for nothing to disperse...

Anonymous said...

It's a long standing Navy tradition to build a bunch of new stuff right bfore a base closes, we used to say that new hospital (back when we did our own health care rather than CHAMPUS) was the kiss of death for a base.

AKA Shadow

leesea said...

they are building new housing on Mayport under a partnership contract.  They has already started dreging the St Johns.  The carrier wharf needs much work and there are some small MILCON jobs in process. 

Remember the MILCON funding is some of the most contenscious and highly political which the Hill critters deal with.  A source of much earmarking and that goes back to which delegation is most powerful.

leesea said...

from the Navy Times: CNO: Navy to reconsider Mayport carrier move - extract:
“Within the context of the ongoing Department of Defense strategic and budget reviews, the size of the fiscal adjustments compels us to take a comprehensive strategic review, <span>examining every program element, including the funding required to homeport a CVN in Mayport</span>,” Greenert wrote in his response to Forbes’ Sept. 23 letter. A copy of Greenert’s letter was posted online by Forbes’ office.
Forbes’ letter said the cost of making Mayport a nuclear-capable home port — estimated at $500 million to $1 billion, can’t be justified while the Navy struggles to keep its ships fit to fight and works toward the long-term goal of sustaining a 313-ship fleet.

LT B said...

move the gators then. FL is too important politically and srategically it makes sense to have the ships down there.

Byron said...

And we've been saying that ever since that asshole senator of ours came up with the hairbrained scheme to get a CVN here! Give us a couple of gators and a few more escorts and we'll not only give some new sailors and Marines a great place to live but give them that quality Mayport service and work!