Bitter laughter is my main response to the events of the past week. You are surprised by what has happened? Why?A friend of mine from Scotland and I had a little message back-and-forth on FB about this. She asked if this could happen in the USA. "Sure." I said, "Happens after every NBA final."
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The mass criminality in the big cities is merely a speeded-up and concentrated version of life on most large estates – fear, intimidation, cruelty, injustice, savagery towards the vulnerable and the different, a cold sneer turned towards any plea for pity, the awful realisation that when you call for help from the authorities, none will come.
Snarking aside, I got more serious and I told her that it has and probably will happen again in LA, Chicago, maybe DC or other Northern cities - but this will not happen in any major Southern city outside of perhaps Atlanta or New Orleans.
"Why?" She asked. Simple, I replied - like the Korean shop owners acted during the Rodney King riots; in most of the South ya'll gets you'se-self shot.
I think, in time, we'll have a chance to see. Like I have said before, economically we are just 5 years behind everyone in Europe.
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There's a story told to me by old school law enforcement that during the time when all the race riots were buring in cities like LA and Detroit, that one of the more vocal rabble rousers announced he was coming to Jacksonville to make a speech in Hemming Plaza (back then the core of the city revolved around this plaza) The day this individual shows up at the old Imeson Field, the sherriff of Duval County met him and invited him for refreshments in a private room of the airport. He walked and and that's when Dale Carson tells him that while he is welcome to exercise his freedom of speech, that the second he started to incite the black community to riot and burn like other cities that a sharpshooter on one of the buildings would put a .30 ought 6 right between his eyes. He then welcomed him to Jacksonville and wished him a good stay in the city.
Was a most sedate speech that in some ways puzzled the crowd who came out to see him...
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2011/08/16/Human-rights-lacking-in-Britain-Iran-says/UPI-26551313488980/ - electric bugaloo...
Sharia law has cutting the hand for thieves, right?
I think the most difference is between small business owners and masses employed by corporations. Defending a shop - mine or my family's - is natural. Risking health or life for Nike or WalMart? Are you serious?
After all said and done, big business together with politicians from both sides have dug themselves (and us) into this mess. Exporting industry abroad? check. Outsourcing everything to sub-sub-sub contractors employing part-time cheap labor? check. Feeding the masses with handouts instead of creating stable lifetime workplaces? check. Spreading "greed is good" consumerism and "get rich quickly or die trying" lifestyles? check. Role models: Paris Hilton and gangsta rappers. check. People are following the lead of those above them. If MPs are embezzling funds, millionaires are using backdoors in tax system to transfer wealth to Bahamas, why should ordinary people feel more obliged to follow the law?
We are failing generations. We are failing our kids. We are failing generations generationally.
We are not going to get a Mulligan on 4 decades of complacency. Just becuase we have righted the ship in the past doesn't mean it will happen this time. I have hope, but hope is not a strategy.
We all know the REAL reason riots primarily happen in these cities in the US... though no one wants to be the one to say it...
No. It meant what Dale Carson told him: that we, the whites and the blacks will work this out PEACEFULLY. Even an old cracker like Dale knew the times had changed and truth be told, didn't really care. What he DID care about, was keeping the peace and protecting property. That WAS his job, and in my opinion, he did what he had to do to protect ALL the citizens of the city and county.
Remember, Mr. Spek-jumps-to-conclusions, the people who suffer the worst impacts of riots are usually the ones that can least afford it...the minorities themselves.
Jacksonville has always found a peaceful solution to solve our racial differences and inequities. That's something I'm proud of, and I'll always be glad to have known Dale Carson as a Sheriff: he did his job.
BTW...Jacksonville's newest Mayor:
http://www.news4jax.com/video/28189799/index.html
I will admit that I didn't vote for him. But so far, seems like a decent person who's trying to do a good job in tough times. If he does well by the city, I'll vote for him next time around.
Checked in by e-mail with some friends in London during the recent troubles. Every one of them said they were fine (stiff upper lip, you know). Each of them went on to add soemthing to the effect of "some things are going to have to change" - which I took to mean the hands-off policing, multiculturalism, etc. has about run its course out there.
i stand corrected. i didn't realize that all the issues with Bull Conner and Orval Fabus could have been solved with just a peaceful "sit down", and some tea...and some snipers.
The real reason is we are not effective in making the upcoming generation stay out of jail, have pride, a good education, and a good job. We repeat the failures of the previous generation and we have done so for decades. We jump on and parade the success of a handul of kids that get out and fail the other 95% who want to be the next rap star, sports star, or have fun all day long getting stoned or drunk. WE. DON'T. STOP. THE. CYCLE. These kids are more interested in establishing their street cred than getting a good education.
Yes I am speaking in generalities but some kid from the projects, err, inner-city disadvantaged youth, does not see a whole other world out there and has no concrete way to know how to achieve it.
By the time they are in 8th grade they've likely done drugs, run booze, and have parents that have skipped out. Get a good education? That doesn't help in the survival of here and now. On that street. That 2 or 4 or 5 block area. Stick your neck out it gets cut off. Try to do good, you get hammered down or or at best picked on. It is an alternate reality. Even the boys & girls clubs & local Ys are a dog eat dog world - and they are the safe place.
So now your 18-19, don't have a job but you do have a record. Now you have a kid on your own. Kids having kids. Cycle continues. Generation FAIL.
We - the American people AND our government are failing these kids. We will never fix things if he keep allowing 85% of the kids to fail in life.
Agree with most of that, however, we shouldn't have to MAKE people stay out of jail. I also dont think that people should be in and out of jail 10 times in their lives. 2 felonies... then the death penalty. Stop wasting my tax dollars supporting these kids/adults that should have been swallowed.
i saw both LA riots from pretty close.
the first one from a shore patrol jeep patroling the streets of LA with a 12 ga pump with the plugs out.
that one ended when LAPD and the military police started shooting back. I can say with truth that i got shot at more in los angeles than i did in viet nam.
the second one's southern most evidence was a barbecue chicken joint that was set afire about a half mile from the house. it must have been all grease as it burned with heavy black smoke for three days.
the second riot had a little s%^t in the game. the first thing was that the mayor of los angeles got on tv LIVE and came about one word short of the legal definition of incitement to riot. then they took off. in the evening news one station showed a long shot of LA and every building more than two stories, and some of them, was on fire.
they mobilized the national guard. the national guard said that "we aren't comming without our guns" (novel idea that). guns were locked up somewhere in the sacramento area. so they got the guns. then the national guard insisted on ammunition for the guns. that was locked up somewhere between LA and Sacramento and they couldn't find the guy with the key.
well when the NG finally got out among them they started setting up traffic stops and intersection posts.
the first evening some of the locals tried a drive by shooting on one of the intersections and within thirty seconds look like swiss cheese with blood running out of it.
grusome pictures on the 11:00 news.
the riot was over by dawn.
C
seriously?
you realize not all felonies are violent, right?
I am for shooting bad guys. As for the south, CDR, St. Pete had a sizable race riot circa 1997. It lasted a week or so. But, once again, was confined to the Black side of town. If it moves into my neighborhood, I am engaging as they make the turn onto the street and will continue to engage until they move on or over run my position. Typically, you take out the vanguard in a bloody, violent end, the tide turns VERY quickly. Historically, the riots have ruined the home areas of the rioters. Shoot early or let it run its course after the boundaries are set to keep it locked into that area?
Oh, and one more thing. The Freiking CANADIANS rioted for 2 days when my beloved Black & Gold took Lord Stanley's Wonderous Cup back east when the sun was staying in high lattitude.
SC:
we are failing our kids.
for your edification: in the last <span>Scientific American</span> there was an article by some academics at HARVARD that delved into the reasons for the drop in crime in the city of New York.
after a couple of pages of who, who did, what, where, not this, not that, not the other thing they finally said in the last paragraph that the real results came from the beat cops hardassing <span>15-25 year old males on the street. </span>
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i don't know about where you live but in Los Angeles there has been a concentrated political effort to hamstring, disarm, paralyze....... LAPD as it goes about its daily business.
we see many many indications that incarcerating individuals stops them from committing crimes while they are in jail. yet the first place the polititians try to cut in the proposed reforms (this comes up on a yearly basis) is the jails and prisons.
in actuality the biggest insane asylum in the state (possibly in the country) is the los angeles county jail. (they run about 12,500 for dinner every saturday night).
the last bastions of hardnosed law enforcement in california appear to be the county sherrifs. but wait, the politicians are trying to fit them up with hobbles too.
they seem to be having trouble though as the judges are very well aware that its the deputies that protect the courts from the "poor misunderstood young souls".
there is a slowly growing feeling though that lawyer tags should be included in the state fishing liscences along with deer tags, elk tags, and other assorted varmint permits.........
Rant, Rant, RAve, Rave.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRgh.
C
Yes. I also realize that felons are parasites on society's back. Seriously... its really not hard to NOT break laws. There are reasons that felonies are felonies and misdemeanors are misdemeanors.
Spek, don't be an ass. This city was well on it's way towards the goal of equality of the races. Hell, we were there! I graduated high school in 69 and the senior prom king was as black as the ace of spades and the queen was like Snow White. Both were the most popular and both got the most votes. Had to tell the teacher to piss off, it's our money, but we didn't care.
What this city didn't need in the time of Bobby Kennedy getting killed, MLK getting killed was some asshole who doesn't live here to incite people to start burning things and killing Whitey. Not only would they suffered much more than the whites did, it would have made things even harder to build bridges. Damn right Dale made sure his city stayed safe. That was his job.
for the non violent felonies the specter of the judicial system impoverishing someone before they are out of it is a pretty good deterrant.
case in point.
that guy that was the dictator of Panama was turned over to the judicial system and by the time he was out of jail (before he got into the civil courts) he was completely broke.
and the family vultures were pi%%ed as he had spent his money before they could polish him off.
"We are failing our kids" - No, respectfully, there is no "we".. I am not failing my child.. I am teaching him things he will need to know to survive in the future...
Phib,
closer than 5 years I suspect. When the republic is strained at the seems as she is now and the have nots have even less and receive less when Austerity truly takes hold, we will see it even worse.. I predict Obama's loss in the polls in 2012 will be the start of it...
the big difference, our LEO wont dither on plastic bullets and water cannons and like you said, invade my castle, stand by...
<span>We repeat the failures of the previous generation and we have done so for decades.</span>
<span> Thanks, "Great Society" and "War on Poverty"...the gifts from LBJ that just keep on giving...</span>
That was then. These days, said rabble rouser would have a video of the "threat" on AlGore's Amazing Internet before the meeting was concluded...
We can't death penalty an entire generation of kids. RF, by your standards in my yute I was one or two interventions away from the felonies necessary to for your death penalty, well, not violent felonies perhaps as I didn't want to kill / hurt anyone, much ;) . And I do support the death penalty, just not your quick shortcut to it.
Product of your environment in your developing years. Cause - Effect. Right - wrong. Discipline -v- beating & abuse.
But what we are doing now and not doing now is not working.
BTW - I think Randolph Duke was right and Mortimer, wrong. Somehow break the cycle, somehow break the negative environment.
You're correct. We created an environment of making it easier for people NOT to need to do things for themselves and their family. The work ethic, as well as the stability of the family, is gone for far too many people. How do we break that cycle?
The next big elephant in the room is that now the Government has more people hooked on the opiate of assistance, the bigger the withdrawls will be when unhooked. When those checks stop coming, you bet there will be more riots.
St Pete aint the South, friend.
Sight picture, sight alignment, gentle squeeze. :)
Not black or white. Same thing has happened in the Irish neighborhoods of Boston, Latino streets of Texas, and the Italian neighborhoods of the Bronx. A black man IMO is just as good as a white man as a hispanic as a "Asian/Pacific" as an "other". It is the socio-economic-doohickey-monkey people can't get off their backs.
See past the skin color.
Geographically yes, mentally, no. A huge portion of the FL coast is very much nawthern. Move inland a bit and you have hit the south. Cattle and citrus farmers abound.
I agree, cops should be hardest on the kids at that age. Fear of the cops at that age was one of my interventions. Kids are the most vulnerable at that age. But the pansies on the left and the community organizers get in the way of it. Brutality they call it. When a kid isn't getting discipline at home and the only right and wrong they get is on the street from the cops, nueter that and you spiral faster.
Hey, can we talk about LCS more? I need to calm down and go to a happy place. I'm turning into an angry middle-aged white male.
Surfcaster, you also need to see past color. As Holder said, quite astutely even if it weren't his intention, "we are a nation of cowards when it comes to the conversation of race." If there is a large problem with out of work young black folks targeting white folks, which from all indicators there is, then you call out the problem for what it is. You do not need to say "well, we have seen similar things in the past from this or that, and its not really an issue of race." Bull$hit. It is an issue of race. Call it what it is. in the scientific method, you cannot analyze a problem until you correctly identify it.
The most fungible commodity is not gold. It is ammunition.
@guest, I guess you have to move further geographic north to get further cultural south? Symantics........
Here's the bottom line from a Salty Gator: I have never done a damn thing to anyone based on their race. I judge folks by character alone. I have never attacked, slighted, hurt, defamed or denied anyone on race, gender, color, creed, what have you. In short, I have nothing to atone for. I will not, therefore, allow myself to be victimized by folks who have a chip on their shoulder and a feeling that they are owed something because their great great great grandfather (or NOT) was a slave.
Kiss off. This is America. We don't do hereditary titles here. You are as good as your last FITREP / review / report card. Period. Anyone can go from Rags to Riches in this country. ANYONE. I'm tired of hearing about someone growing up in the projects not being able to make something of themselves. TWO OF MY CAPTAINS HAVE GROWN UP IN THE PROJECTS. THEY DID JUST FINE. DO NOT TELL ME THAT IT CANNOT BE DONE.
SG - I did see past the color - due to the weird set of circumstance of parents divoring at a fairly young age I have lived both in the Swamp Yankee Projects of the Northeast, semi-squalor of suburban Balt'more, and middle class suburbia. All places where race and class and socio-economic crap occurred. I also, through a twist of fate, went to High School as a pseudo-brat in the 80s at a DODS school in Germany (Patch, where so few have been led by so many). While some classism existed, Officer -v- Enlisted and Officer family -v- Enlisted family, there was surprisingly little race and most all the kids were good kids, far superior to those of places I lived before. The advantage was, partly, because a better class of parents, professionals, and environment - plus the drilled down fear of screwing up being at least embarassing and at worst, a career limiting event for your sponsor.
We had black teens, white teens, latino teens, Japanese, a few Korean, lots of "Pacific Islander" (The Guam kids kicked a$$ on the football field). We had a great group of kids. We had structure, parents, good environments, fantastic schools, and the second largest beer fest in the world.
The goombas on Federal Hill in PVD aren't black. The theft, drugs, and theivery in Charlestown or Southie aren't by majority black.
Its not the race. It is the economics, disipline, and family. In my experience it is our environment and structure will go along way.
Now does the higher percentage of blacks living in poverty do it?
Many of the rioters, especially in the subsequent riots, were white.
It can be done and it is done it just isn't done enough. How many get out and really excel, 5-10%? The exceptions to the rule? Get out and stay out - 40% ? Really don't know the numbers. Problem is a lot of the people who grew up in the projects find their way to stay in the projects. A lot easier to blame the "Man" for your problems than working hard to get out.
Thats the thing. Everyone see's force or punishment as bad. Its something that goes from every herd or pack animal past or present. Someone HAS to make the law and lay it down. When you dont..............london, LA, Etc.
Guest, the yobs in Britain are not the question here. We are referring to America. But agreed, the trash comes in all forms.
Caster, one of my captains is now an Admiral. A lot of us in our office wish that he would write a book about his journey from the projects to the admiralty. He doesn't want to do it because he feels that "the folks who need to read it won't." I wish he would. While all Americans have a stake in the advancement of all Americans, if the "black community" wants to continuously self identify and segregate itself, perhaps this is a "black issue" that needs to be resolved at its own grass roots level. And stop freaking out when "one of its own" like Bill Cosby, Mayor Nutter or to a much lesser extent President Obama calls folks out on abdicating their responsibilities.
oh GAWD you are a Bostonian? Sigh........you guys beat my beloved Flyers.
Not beat them.... crushed them like the bugs that they were.
Cousins all over my a** last year when the B's lost four straight after leading 3-0. This year, they got a nice helping of humble pie....
A large part is blacks --->BUT<---
Its not a race thing. Its a cultural thing. A culture of greed, thieft, violence, and hatred against....well everyone and everything. Its what is causing the problems in england or atleast a good bit of it.
These problems are everywhere But they are multiplied in the area's like LA, ATLANTA, NY etc. In rural area's which lack the "enlightened" touch of our betters it can be handled. In the cities its put in one area and then our "betters" tell them "its OK its their fault.........But if you vote for us we can Change this!"
Yes but take that "blacks living in poverty".........now look at how many whites grow up in poverty in say the appalachians or such. Many of these people dont even have airconditioning or running water.
Yet in many ways they are ignored more than any and treated the worst. They have No one to speak for them.
Coulter got the message here. THE SUN NEVER SETS ON THE BRITISH WELFARE SYSTEM
http://goo.gl/L2hZf
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So i have to pay tons to the government for them to spend tons on a group of individuals who are adults yet cant be treated like adults because they were poor.......
We are not to blame for the underperformance in inner city ghettos or anywhere else. You know what the ghetto's need? Round the clock security and the ability to hold the people there responsible.
Only they can help themselves in the end. Its up to them to stop making excuses.
Rural & Urban are WAY different
Exactly its the culture of the beast not the race.
Amen on the "no hereditary titles"....when did we decide to accord permanent titular status to people in public service? Last night I saw Bolton on tv answering questions about some issue and the tagline below his image was "AMB Bolton"...WTF? He is NOT an ambassador to ANYTHING !! He is a former ambassador... The job of ambassador does not grant permant status - ala some patent of nobility. Or did I miss where we voted to change this ??!!??
Likewise, Governor Huckabee, Palin, Romney and anyone else who is no longer a SITTING governor should not be referred to as GOV "XXXX"... The are former governors.
To paraphrase a comic from many years ago....I worked during my youth as a cook in a restaurant....that does not mean that I go around asking people to call me CHEF for the rest of my life!
We fought a war over many things, one of them the conept of titles of nobility.
Good grief...
Real men wear Black
There's several dividing lines in Florida. Gainesville to Miami is more or less South Jersey. Miami itself is North Cuba. Orlando and the vicinity is South Massachussetts. Ocala north is South Georgia, except for the panhandle, which is Lower Alabama. That only leaves out Key West which is South San Francisco.
Guest- It is a traditional mark of respect and courtesy to address former holders of senior elected or appointed positions by that title, even if they are no longer practicing.
That also applies to "Reverands" All Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, President Bill Clinton, and Vice President Al Gore, Mayor Guiliani, etc.
If you donlt want to be courteous and respectful, you are free to disregard such conventions, but please be consistent in your use or non use of former titles.
Seriously calm the hell down.
Well I was going to tell you all to relax! I'd sent one of my favorite Bostonian's, Bill Bratton over there. It was all gonna be fine. Bratton is a civilian Petraeus. He knows there is no one answer & it won't be over with a quick fix. He's wicked smart my Billy is!
However the British Home Secretary has decided that this situation require a Brit.
No matter, let it burn, London was never all that popular with Bostonians.
I could look NNW out across the Straights of Georgia and see the mayhem your Bruins caused in Vancouver. It was the perfect end to the Canuck's season.
Invest in precious metals - brass, copper, lead, & liberal amounts of primers and powder. Multipurpose investments.
One thing: compare Japan: quake, tsunami, radioactive conatinment (slight but real) and nobody's looting, nor even panicking...
And there is no overbearing military/police presence needed either.
Ask yourselves why is that possible,there, and not in UK or US?
I've got a pet theory, but it is so un-PC i wont even post it.
And Jacksonville across to P'cola is the South...as is the cattle country below it.
That the Japanese are kinda strange and are of a culture as close to alien in this world as you can get. Cool in many ways but always.....off.
Think about it. One has a basic tennet of Social shame, and collectivism, Not communist collectivism but you being responsible as a part of society.
The other. ME, ME, ME, ME! Its never your fault always someone elses. You deserve to be happy no matter WHAT may fall. I am the most important thing in society.
Here is the thing. ANY form of true collectivism requires alot of its people. It requires sacrifice of its members. And constant vigilence. Without those things....its just another form of tyranny or some bs oligarchy.
And you see that in britain where it has been pushed but not the part of sacrificing. Its a empty system.
There was a hurricane that came through Louisiana in the around 2002 and of course, the Weather Channel was there. The intrepid reporter found two old guys outside a WalMart in S.E. Lousiana, aka, Cajun country just sitting in the bed of their old pickup. He figured this had to be a story so he stopped to ask them why weren't they taking shelter? They told the reporter, "Well, dis is our Wally Marty and we kind of like it, us, so we saw dem people looting stuff down dere in Mah-ami and decided we oughta come over here and wait to see if we could get us some of dem looters"
Cajuns...always looking to exceed the bag limit :)
Not long after the cup was over: Reported on NESN Vancouver Canucks goalie Roberto Luongo attempted suicide this morning???? WTF man???? Reports are he stepped in front of a bus off a busy city sidewalk but fortunately for him the bus went right through his legs!!
Should this be a hate crime?
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/new-video-shows-philly-teen-attack-081711
This crap needs to be stamped out and stamped out hard. Violent flash mob? Answer with muzzle flash.
Hereditary = passed down through blood lines, ala "the Kennedys and 'camelot'," or generations on welfare at the other extreme. Folks who earn certain titles get to keep them for life. Such as General Colin Powell, Ambassador Bolton, Presidents Clinton and Bush, Governors Ventura and Huckabee. The list goes on. And yes, Congressman Weiner.
My point was that just because your parents were on welfare for life does not damn you to welfare for life as well. Without additional government intervention, one is capable of breaking the cycle SIMPLY by taking advantage of existing opportunities.
Whatever. All I know is that we'll probably be playing the Yankees again in the world series, and the Eagles will be playing Pittsburg in the superbowl.
Keep in mind the old truism:
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Muzzle Flash Mob anyone? MFM in text spreak.
I wonder where he got that idea. <span>"I've got a pet theory, but it is so un-PC i wont even post it."</span>
Kind of says it all about here.
you forgot antimony.
c
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