Sunday, August 07, 2011

Sal, what type of evangelical are you again?

Ah, one of my favorite questions. I often confuse people who get to know me when I tell them I am an evangelical - especially when they know my libertarian instincts and Dutchesque view of getting in other peoples' business.

Well - via Pyromaniacs, I found a quote that I like; a lot. Ponder.
Pharisaical legalists are not content to live life in the power of the Spirit, cultivate discernment, and avoid things that are clearly profane or immoral; they make lists of rules that prohibit Christians from practically everything but church activities. It's not enough to avoid gambling; they insist that good Christians will avoid card-playing altogether. They're not content with doing things in moderation and with self-control, they make rules that call for strict abstinence from everything doubtful—and they try to impose those rules on other Christians—saddling people with a yoke that they imagine exists somewhere in the white spaces of Scripture.

You want rules? Here's a good one to start with: When it comes to the question of spiritual duties, where Scripture stops speaking, we should, too.
Verily, the Church of the Salamander is a quirky place; we'll hug your neck, dunk 'ya, give you a beer, a New American Standard study Bible, and send you on your way with an invite to Wednesday Bible study.

37 comments:

Campbell said...

Amen.

eric said...

Well said.
thanks

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

I are an Evengelical Lutheran Church in America Badger. ELCAB, if you will.

Wharf Rat said...

Wharf Rat says - AMEN.

Hey - today, I am hosting the PCO/XO and two enlisted Sailors, at my home - of PCU MINNESOTA SSN 783, an official Navy League Twin Cities Council event.

Tomorrow at the Twins/Red Sox game a promo video will be played on the big screen.  Go to PCU MINNESOTA's (all caps) FB page and view the .30 second spot.  It will also hit navy.mil tomorrow.  The 3 day schedule is at www.ussminnesota.org If you're from MN - come find us.

Wharf Rat said...

Scott - sounds like the WI State Fair is a peaceful location::(((.

Love all the stories that whitewashed who was guilty of the 'activities'.

Wharf Rat said...

Okay - forgot to mention that they're in two to promote the USS MINNESOTA Logo Contest, an effort I'm chairing as VP of the local Navy League council.

DeltaBravo said...

Well, don't bring that New American Standard Bible anywhere near the USAF.   Now they're scrapping the Just War Theory Ethics class at Vandenburg because it (gasp!  choke!)  QUOTES THE BIBLE.

They called it right wing funamentalist Christianity.  Which I think would amuse Thomas Aquinas to have that label, but that's just my conjecture.

So the new rules are:  If you're a Christian, keep it to yourself.  But the non-Christians can "spread their particular brand of joy" everywhere with free abandon and grown men will cower like schoolgirls under their desks.  Let the nihilists with their weapons of political correctness storm another school.

They had a group of turds like that marching down the street in Austin yesterday because Gov. Perry dared pray for our country, for rain, for wisdom...   how dare he exercise his freedom of religion and invite free people to join him in prayer. 

God bless America, indeed.

(PS.  to you USAF types who may have to push the button, you won't be allowed to study why what you're doing can be considered moral, just know that if the time and the order comes, you don't get to whine that you just can't do it anymore.)

Salty Gator said...

Well said, Ms. Delta.  "God Bless America" is nothing more than empty words coming from politicians who would strip us of our Christo-Judaic identity or fail to acknowledge our rights as being God-Given, not simply codified on parchment paper with Late 18th and early 19th century ink. Like the person who will thank you on the street for your military service, but at cocktail parties laments the 4% GDP that goes into National Defense instead of his favorite wealth resdistribution program.  

Empty.  Words.

CDR Salamander said...

... not Missouri Synod Lutheran? 8-)

Byron said...

I'm a simple believer. There is a God and He is all powerful. He gave us the Ten Commandments and I figure he meant them to be all we needed to have to live the way he wanted us to. That's the way I take it and that's the way I live it.

Oh...and I figure the Lord is a guy with a sense of humor, too... He made us, didn't he?

(Full disclosure: I'm a lapsed Roman Catholic who'd probably still be in the church and a full member of the Knights of Columbus as I once was, but for the fact I was told that if I didn't hound my state reprensitives to vote against the abortion bill I'd burn in hell for a mortal sin. I don't belive in it...but it's not my place to force those not of my faith to share mine. Kiss my ass, go away, and you're not going to get my tithe anymore).

DM05 said...

Luteran. Saved at baptism, generally flexible, lead a good life, and grace, not law. Like Byron, bad experience with someone 'in my face' at an early age. 'Nuff said 'bout religion, it's a personal thing IMHO.

Kristen said...

Just this morning at Mass while I was standing to recite the Creed, I was swept with a feeling of joy at being a member of my Church.  I was born into the Faith and there are times when I take it for granted.  Today, I had a reminder of what a great and undeserved blessing it is in my life to be a believer.

Heather said...

Ooh! A pyro reader! :)

Reformed Baptist here.

Rod said...

I became an inactive church member for the same reason. Trying to pressure a change in the law to force others to follow my religious beliefs is too closely aligned to Taliban thinking for me!

LT Rusty said...

Interesting thing about Pharisees ... the portrayal they get from the verifiable historical record, including a massive collection of still-extant writings, doesn't really match up that closely with the portrayal that they get in Christianity.  Oddly, the greatest likelihood is that Jesus himself was a Pharisee.  His teachings are very much in line with the general trend of Pharisaical thought, and his identity as an itinerant rabbi ministering to the poor fits with this as well.  Paul, on the other hand ... very little about his portrayal resonates with anything from history, at face value.  His use of language, word choice, grammar, evident level of education, philosophical positions, etc., do not fit.

Campbell said...

Hmmmm.  came back to see.  appreciate everyones' input.
might as well kick in an intro on me then, too
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Retired Now said...

Servants have less to say than Kings .....

Christ was a servant who stooped to conquor.


...........small Independent Baptist Church here.

Sean said...

My college classmates that went into the Air Force to be missileers told me about the classes/training they had on the morality of shooting nuclear weapons at people....they then asked me what my classes were like in the Navy?  I said "what classes"?!!?

It may have changed now but I can tell you that in the late 80's and early 90's it was assumed that you did not have a problem shooting nuclear weapons at the other side if you were involved with Navy nukes onboard submarines.

Only when properly instructed, of course...

andrewdb said...

NAS?  Well there's the problem.  If it was good enough for Jesus, the KJV is good enough for me (now if I can just convince my Episcopalian Cathedral to go back to it ....)

We are in full communion with the ELCA

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

'Taint sayin'.  Christian, protestant, believer. More than that, 'taint sayin'.

Salty Gator said...

The CO of my NROTC unit brought in a reserve Captain Chaplain to lecture us in our L&M course on the morality of warfare.  It was not a "requried" class, but everyone showed.  Two civvies who were taking the class as an elective tried to ask about "separation of Church and state..." we promptly dismissed them.

Salty Gator said...

How old are you now?  How old are you now?  How old are you Byron...How old are you now?

:)

Andrew said...

Seems to be a lot of Lutherans represented amongst your readers, CDR. I'll happily add to the numbers as yet another member of the ELCA. I find that many evangelicals get a bad rap because of the small percentage who like to think that it's a necessity t o prove their faith by rubbing others' faces in their one, true version of Christianity. Sounds like another group of religious fanatics. . .

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Doesn't sound like Lutherans were the culprits, though.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Ah, yes, the tendency of Lutherans to split whenever possible.   They say that if you get three Lutherans together, you will soon have 4 Synods.

dc said...

Growing up in the old American Lutheran Church in the 70's, they lived up to the old creed of "Wherever Four shall congregate; There will usually be a Fifth."

Grumpy Old Ham said...

<span>Well, don't bring that New American Standard Bible anywhere near the USAF.   Now they're scrapping the Just War Theory Ethics class at Vandenburg because it (gasp!  choke!)  QUOTES THE BIBLE.  
 
They called it right wing funamentalist Christianity.  Which I think would amuse Thomas Aquinas to have that label, but that's just my conjecture.
  </span>

Ah yes, the (over)reaction to the so-called "Fundamentalist Christian" problem at USAFA...the gift that keeps on giving...

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Come on, Scott.  Dem white people had it comin'.  I am sure Eric Holder, he of the lecture about being cowards about race, will investigate and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law those responsible. 

Reverse the colors of the perps and the victims, and the Organizer and Bigot in Chief would already have made an address to the Nation to rail about evil whitey, and would already have pushed legislation championing the rights of what Holder describes as "my people" over, well, those not his people. 

So why do we think "economic justice" is any less of a ploy to persecute one group to benefit the other?

LT B said...

They recite the Sailor's Creed at your church?  AWESOME!  :)

Actus Rhesus said...

heathen papist here, who has absolutley ZERO hesitation in including Aquinas alongside Clausewitz in all the Law of War seminars I teach.

shooters need to understand the concept of jus in bello. the brass need to understand jus ad bellum.

Full stop.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

No, no, no, AR.  Moral guideposts are so, well, Judeo-Christian!  And if there is anything we will not stand for in the Obama post-American (well, post-American prosperity, anyway) world, it is Judeo-Christian values. 

Everything should be defined and decided by argument, counter-argument, and decision before the bench.  No pesky objective guidposts like religious tenets (unless they are Islam's), or the Constitution, should be allowed to cloud the genius of our bold new age.  They get in the way of the moral relativism that makes our enemies who murder the innocent intentionally the equivalent of our servicemen who risk their lives to save them, if there is a single innocent life lost due to US action. 

Going back to my Ramadan fasting, because eating during daylight hours this month is offensive to those who would put me to death....

DeltaBravo said...

Liking this twice.  (That's ST. THOMAS AQUINAS for some of us... with a mind great enough to humbly understand its own limitations.)

Actus Rhesus said...

meh.  I will continue to operate under the belief that, despite the fact that the man who first coined the phrase was Cannonized by the Catholic Church, the notions of the "just cause" and "just conduct" are secular and universal.  Of course I am also 6 months behind on my diversity GMTs...so my opinion is pretty well moot.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Well, AR, they are somewhat secular.  In that the values are not necessarily religiously based any longer, but are held by those who embrace the values of Western society irrespective of faith.  But they are far from universal.  And there's the rub.  If we decry those values, and the origin of them in Western society, then we have little by way of a societal moral compass. 

Which lends itself nicely to moral relativism, and the paradigm described above with no moral guideposts.

Robbo said...

Long time reader/lurker here.
I grew up Catholic, but I don't believe in any gods anymore.

Byron said...

Sorry to hear that. Just because I quit attending Catholic church, does not mean that I stopped believing in God.

Robbo said...

Thanks, but no reason to feel sorry as far as I'm concerned. I'm quite happy not dealing with the church.