Monday, August 08, 2011

USS EMORY S. LAND's (AS-39) buoy "issues"

If you don't know the background, click here, but that must have been one heck of a buoy.

Check out the damage. This was taken in the dry dock in Bahrain on 01 AUG.


Hat tip Salamander Underground.

43 comments:

Byron said...

I expect the shaft and shaft bearings are farked up too.

James said...

Acording to the post on the page the ship was lame anyways and under tow AND being guided by a civilian pilot.

So what was the reason for the firing if he had no control over it.

And how come no one has fired any of the admirals that so justly desirve it?

Old Farter said...

If they were being towed, I assume the shaft was not turning. (Just 1 ding on the screw, but it looks like it broke the tip of the blade. Hmmmm)  That's some serious growth on there. Do all those barnacles make screws brittle?

Charley A. said...

Read the Facebook comments appended to the Navy Times article.  Very interesting take on the Navy's propensity to fire CO's.   The (current?) policy of holding CO's to a perfect standard is a double edged sword: it makes CO's ultimately accountable, yet at the same time might mute their initiative - a quality we value in American (naval) officers.   What I find ironic is that in a speech to graduating midshipmen, ADM Mullen admitted to some sort of navigational incident - with a bouy or channel marker if I remember correctly - early his career during, but he was retained.  Different times, or different leadership?

Anonymous said...

1) LAND didn't just bump the buoy. LAND ran over and sank the buoy. Those are big buoys on chains.

2) Look at the other blade tips, chipped or scraped.

3) Barnacles don't make the blades brittle, but they really ruin fuel economy. It's quite obvious LAND has skipped more than one screw scrubbing.

4) I wonder where NAVSUP located a replacement screw? A lot of that material was scrapped in the drawdown.

Salty Gator said...

Wait...the Emory S Land still gets underway?

Am I the only person surprised to hear that?

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

Both.

TBR said...

How else to provide flexible forward TLAM replenishment for the SSN's and SSGN's than with a tender?

If anything it's astonishing how far the USN has neglected the CLF, both in acquisition and in organisation (gradual shift to mixed mil/civmar crewing). On the one hand you concentrate on your shooters in sparse budget times, on the other worldwide deployability and mission capability needs robust logistics...

With no replacement for the tenders in sight the time is near when a SSN will have to reload in a homeport or like secured "quasi-homeport" of an ally whose infrastructure and security comes at a higher price than a tender (and is farther from the action, posing more strain on sub numbers).

There are experiments in "non-tender SSN support" underway, granted, but if you look at full cost/performance at the full level of capability (which these experiments IIRC do not offer) I'm doubtful of their advantage over tenders to say the least, especially if you took a modern tender with less crewing requirement as the comparative measure.

sid said...

That's some serious growth on there. Do all those barnacles make screws brittle?

"Dezincification" certainly can ...Where the zinc is leached out of the bronze alloy by stray current leakage.

It a problem on pleasure boats that gotten worse over the years because so many more boats are plugged in and continuously running ac components like air conditioners, and alot of that current gets leaked into the water.

Marinas are one big cathodic battery these days...Or you should treat them that way at least.

Thats one reeeleeey crusty screw...And given the -inexcuseable- cathodic protection fail on LCS-2...Its something to ponder.

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

This should be a classic case of wait for the investigation to find out the facts.  Instead, once again, "ready; fire; aim".

I have no problem with firing 40 CO's a year, or none, once a full and complete investigation of the FACTS is complete.  The ISIC, or higher than higher, by the by, may not understand the contributing factors of a special case.  In terms of Piloting SOP and chain of command, this was a special case.

Accountability is made a mockery when decisions are made in the absence of the facts. Especially, to ruin any one's career.

That said, the CO can (and sometimes must) tell a civilian pilot to go stand in the corner and take the conn himself.  Sole exception is the Panama Canal.

sid said...

While we're talking double standards...

How come the Freedom's skipper wasn't canned for this little incident?

Three men stranded on Pilot Island by Freedom ship

<span>8/11 - Washington Island, WI - Three Washington Island men were stranded on nearby Pilot Island, Sunday, when their small boat was put on the rocks, cracking her hull, by the wake from the USS Freedom.
Eric Greenfeldt, Mike Carr and Butch Jess, members of the Friends of Plum and Pilot Island, were on Pilot Island checking the buildings Sunday, when the new USS Freedom went by on her sea trials. The 22-foot boat that the men had used to reach the island, broke three lines that had held the small boat fast, and the boat was washed up on the rocky shore by the wake created by the new vessel.
Fortunately the owner, who was aboard, was unharmed, although shaken up. The boat was later removed and taken to Washington Island, where it is believed to be a total loss. The men had a cell phone and were able to contact someone to come pick them up.
Washington Island residents have reported a wake as high as eight-feet when the vessel passes. One other story circulating on Washington Island is that several fisherman have been swamped off Rock Island by the same wake.
The USS Freedom, which was built in Marinette, has been conducting sea trials in Lake Michigan, and steaming through the Door to get there. </span>

Somebody would've been buying me a modest boat like this one...And the wherewithall to enjoy a multi-year jaunt about the Caribbean if that had happened to me.

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

Use of the screw with tugs made up is not uncommon.  The tug can act as a brake,  aid to the rudder, additional rudder, or additional thruster.  

Tugs and pilots in that part of the world, mmm, vary, a lot.  The winds can be strong and sudden.  Tenders have a huge "sail" factor, and steam tender can have lag in engine response.

He may have screwed up in the moment, he may have not put command attention on training the sailors and mariners  together, a lot of things could go wrong.  It may be justified, it may not.

Hopefully the investigation will tell. 

Not publishing it defeats the purpose of the investigation, in terms of it's value to the Navy.

chief torpedoman said...

...Washington Island residents have reported a wake as high as eight-feet when the vessel passes...

Score one for Galhran. I guess the LCS wake is effective against small boat swarms; at least for a swarm of one! :-)

Salty Gator said...

Interesting.  Maybe in the cold war that makes sense.  But personally, I'd much rather see us figure a way to re-load USN surface combatants VLS cells

LT B said...

Yes, but were all his bridge team up to date on their DADT, sexual harassment/assault, and diversity training?  A Navy MUST have standards. 

Warrant Diver said...

The growth on the screw is unrelated to cathodic protection...CP just stops metal loss due to dissimiliar metal corrosion and stray voltage issues. Marine fouling is prevented on the hull only by antifouling paint, and on the unpainted surfaces (like the screw) by cleaning by Divers. And she has her own Divers. Wonder what they're doing?

pk said...

salty:

in the 80's the snow job was that any crane that could reach the vertical centerline of the vls cell could reload it.

am i missing something??

C  

pk said...

i notice that the zincs are pretty well gone,

C

Warrant Diver said...

I've seen hundreds of screws in my career and this screw doesn't look any different than dozens of tender or amphib screws I've seen. Tenders/amphibs would always go to sea with dog-eared and broken blades because the warships got the attention. There is some evidence of shiny metal there around the damaged areas, which may indicate the buoy or its cable dragging over the bronze and cleaning off the barnacles. But with the massive fouling elsewhere, I wonder if the running gear had been getting any attention at all, and if the screw was not already damaged. Would not be the first time.

hundycougar said...

Hmmm.. the new Taliban weapon of choice could be buoy based!

Andy Rowan said...

Where are we keeping the CO's again?  I personally think this is the way we justify making cuts in the Navy bands.  No change of command, no need to pay for a band.

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

The cobbler's children are the worst shod in town.

sid said...

<span>The growth on the screw is unrelated to cathodic protection...CP just stops metal loss due to dissimiliar metal corrosion and stray voltage issues</span>
<span></span>
<span>That growth suggests wholesale neglect Warrant.</span>
<span></span>
<span>I can tell you that when you see a heavily fould pleasure boat prop like that...you generally find metal rot as part and parcel of said same neglect....</span>
<span></span>
<span>So...not saying thatg was a problem on the Land...But I'd be real curious about what that screw looks like underneath all that growth.</span>
<span></span>
<span></span>

sid said...

Better example...

Cupojoe said...

Naval architecture is not my strong suit, but isn't it odd that the trailing edge of the screw was damaged?  Did they back into the buoy? 

chief torpedoman said...

Here is a pic of the Frank Cable's screw in drydock. Quite a difference.

http://lugitaherwani.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/uss-frank-cable.jpg

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

Possibly.  Ship could have been backing with headway still present.

Best to wait until the investigation comes out.

The Usual Suspect said...

Let's go back and haul him before a board...there's no satute of limitations; anyway, the passage of time doesn't matter.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Harvey can set aside any and all administrative or disciplinary action taken at the time, and really hammer him. 

Wouldn't that be beautiful?

LT Rusty said...

Yeah, the reloading crane on VLS modules on DDG-79 and follow.  That's what's missing.  No underway replenishment on VLS cells.

pk said...

cavitation more generally happens downstream of the center line of the blade and so does dezinificatioooooon.

also the taendancy when getting afoul of things is to BACK DOWN FULL which has a tendancy to "ratbite" the trailing edges of the screw.

C

pk said...

yes, just where are her divers?

C

pk said...

as an ex tender sailor i will tell you that we were not "bolted to the pier", no one of the guys in the machine shop devised a super clevis that allowed us to set sail withought any torch work on the lines......

in actuality we went to sea at least 12 days (by definition) per year in order to keep our seapay.

this outfit probably observed that regulation also.

remember a tender is at her best with ships along side either at the pier or anchored out, not sailing around showing the flag.

C

pk said...

<span>seems as though underweigh reloading in anything but a flat sea might be a bit on the "hairy" side.  
 
C</span>

pk said...

just what is that off of?

C

sid said...

A trimaran...

Thats an eaten up saildrive(they go quick!).

Note in the background, that there is a hatch on the inboard side of the stbd hull just above the waterline... 

Can you say L-E-A-K!

Looks like something NAVSEA would come up with.

sid said...

And all that crud on the screw meant an even greater than already too much lag in response for that big 'ole slab sided, single screwed beast...

(i can relate to copious freeboard at the mercy of the wind, undergutted single shaft maneuvering...)

pk said...

B:

probably not. remember that the shafting and bearings are built a lot heavier than the propellor blades.

this outfit just might have a spare propellor on deck just for this contingency otherwise spcc can fly one out to them. yes fly, we were flying props from the phillipines to the west coast for std overhaul use in the late seventies.

keep in mind that the stern tube and strut bearings are probably at the maximum clearance so that will forgive a certain amount of bend in those shafts.

i would also speculate that when she gets back under weigh the line shaft bearing tempuratures will be about the same as before and the vibration will probably be better.

cable and chain damage to propellers is not that unusual. there was one floating around in the refit inventory that had about 3 feet of inch and a half steel cable inbedded in the root of the blade and they were dodging fixing it as the class it was for was going out of commission in a few years anyway.

C

pk said...

if you place the tender to close to the "front" then it becomes a very soft target.

there are a lot of things on a tender that hamper self defense (like a third of it being an ammunition ship, some of it being a missle magazine, some of it being a tanker, some of it having instruments a bit on the delicate side for surviving ships own guns).

the only time the tender i was on fired its 5" one time and wrecked the calibration of the electronic standards in the electronics shop (about 50 feet aft of the gun), had a big fight over it.......... Master Chief ET almost threw the firing pin over the side.........

heard in the chowline.

C

chief torpedoman said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leesea said...

I hear a lot of comments here by persons who perhaps did not conn single screw ships?  hey just saying~

Grandpa Bluewater. said...

Had the same thought.

sid said...

<span>Don't really see any comments here that are slathering blame over the quality of shiphandling, so much as the material condition of the ship...  
 
CTF 74/54 is the one with the heartburn on that score.</span>