San Diego triple header. Nice.
Hat tip Andrew.
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Tuesday, October 12, 2010
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I'm going to be spending some quality time with the list of Southern cocktails from Garden & Gun through the new year.
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79 comments:
And none at Mayport...sigh. Oh well, give us some amphibs and we'll be happy.
I need educatin' : are those 3 aircraft carriers? My poor mid is gonna be sooo embarrassed :-[ .
Traffic on the bridge is probably a mess.
Why would they go to Mayport? BTW, I hate to break it to you, but carriers don't move based on your happiness.
Why would they move to Mayport...and perhaps other places? To disperse the fleet so two A-bombs in containers wouldn't take out 1 third to half of the fleet.
Also put some 2 dollar bills in circulation to increase the general appreciation of bluejackets.
(That latter has kind of been nixed by direct deposit though).
Nice trick. I would like to see it done about 4 more times (simultaneously) in various USN homeports around the country. 15 bird farms, just about the right number.
This might explain why the bars were so packed last Friday. We are happy for the money, but fleet dispersion was the first thing I thought of.
andrewdb
Pssst...hate to break it to you, but the rank and file out here really don't want a nuke. What we'd like is a couple of amphibs.
Heheheh...every bar around has an ATM right inside the door or will take your card at the bar ;)
Yes, that's the Vinson (70), the Reagan (76) and the Nimitz (68).
andrewdb
Ships in port, wasted steel.
Bird Farm Web Cam - of these carriers: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/webcams/marina/
And for free, from me - a fourth bird farm is in this picture as well - that's right, the ex-USS Midway CV 41.
Regardless of the simple fact she isn't in commission, it's pretty cool that there are four carriers in this picture. 8-)
What you have here is proof of the success of American Industry. 8-)
GB, (while I'm fanticizing) place two of them in Alameda and one in Quonset Point. Even one for Byron in Mayport. The airbase and CV-pier real estate is still in place.
But it will never happen with this gummint in place and the costs of building CVs.
yes, and another tidbit for free - click on the picture, drag a box around a carrier, and it zooms in. You can pick the numbers from the islands.
I'll be the Chinese like these web cams.
And another freebiee: there are other web cams on this site that zooms you down to the piers on the other side of the bridge, so you can see the big deck amphibs. Harder to pick out numbers though - but not impossible.
Question: What's the sailing time up to the Marine base on the east coast from Mayport, versus the sailing time from Little Creek and Norfolk to that same Marine base.
Byron might have a point..........a couple big deck ampibs disbursed might be a good thing. Better if it's a CVN.
At the very least, capitol ships would be disbursed.
Yes, those are three Targets :-P
Traffic is a mess, period. With 3 birdfarms inport - That is a traffic nightmare in SD.
The Intracoastal Waterway runs from way down in Texas, up the East Coast, right past the Norfolk Navsta, and then up the Chesapeake Bay, thru the Dover Canal and continues Northward into the vast unknown somewhere up towards the Liberal New England area.
All commercial and private traffic, including some large barges full of___ ?? who knows ?? (nothing is inspected), all pass within a football field of all the Nuclear carriers (and LPD, LHD, DDG, CG, SSN) that are docked at Navsta Norva at any one time. Especially at Christmastime.
Do you think a 27 foot long fiberglass Navy Police Security boat could stop a fully loaded barge, full of _____? (loaded down in Texas last month) from pushing up right in between 2 CVN's and being set off ?
Time to get quite a few warships moved out of Norfolk as soon as possible since a Navy Harbor Security Patrol boat will never stop the momentum of an articulated tug and its 500 ton barge, passing within a 100 yards of the CVN's all lined up at Navsta Norva. Mass times Velocity = Momentum. I'm surprized Tom Clancy hasn't written a book about this yet.
From the looks of the aerial photos on Google, these ships are all past the Coronado Bay Bridge. A few pounds of explosive in the right place keeps them in port for quite a while. Norfolk has a similar problem, I believe.
Try to wrap you head around being USN. Your job isn't to snark about how easy they are to kill but rather to eliminate the hazards they face. How hard is that? OOOOOOHHHHH I'm a silent but deadly platform and I HUNT MY OWN NAVY SHIPS?
you probably still ride a skateboard.
Old Soldier, Not the case. The NAS North Island CV pier where these ships are moored is seaward of the Coronado Bridge. The ships at 32nd Street on the other hand...
Talked about this with girlfriend recently.................Never did I not feel loved or not wanted in Mayport/Jacksonville. I never once felt loved or wanted in Norfolk. For those sailors who liked Norfolk.......I always asked how many years they had been in Norfolk and subtracted ten IQ points for every year they were stationed there. Norfolk is a dirty, rotten, nasty town with nothing good for the Navy. I say close it down and move ships to Mayport, Charlestown and Newport. Newport and Mayport could handle the Carriers and big deck Amphibs and Charlestown the small boys.
Designers thought this problem through...Coronado Bridge is designed to float...won't obstruct channel for long.
Norfolk has a clear channel to sea, thanks to the Hampton Bridge(and)Tunnel and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge(and)Tunnel.
As a plus you can take your car to 150' while traveling to the (Destroyer and) Submarine Piers via I64, which on summer fridays is vastly more obstructed than the channel it passes under.
Zoltan, Have heard this for years but never sure if it was true or not. Same is said to be the case of the Jamestown Bridge between that island and Newport.
This has always been a Navy town and we have always gone out of our way to make our sailors feel wanted. Anyone who thinks otherwise will be shown the county line in a hurry. Of course, there was that time in the early 50's when the hustlers outside the gate at JAX NAS finally got the base CO PO'd. He got a lot of new movies for the base theatre, stocked the hell out of the commisary and exchange, and then closed the base off. It two weeks before the county geeked and put the wood to the hock shops, stip bars and used car lots on Roosevelt Blvd. Nary a problem since.
They are NOT that easy to kill, when sailing with their escorts, including the submarine(s). It can be done, but it's risky. Very risky for neophytes, It was even riskier when they had S-3's and SH-3's with a dipping sonar embarked. Back then it could be right sporty.
The US Submarine Force makes it look easy. The Pros from Dover usually do.
Stay on your toes when sneaking up on a bird farm. Goddamn airdales, given half a chance, will eat your lunch and steal your scalp. Not to mention the Surface force escorts. A pain in the tookus, those skimmers.
We hunt each other to hone our skills. For the day we hunt for real...together.
Back to your playpen "guest", this a game for the grown ups.
Good to see this has been thought out.
ShawnP, Although I spent a lot of time in the Tidewater area attending schools and embarking in ships to head out for operations I was never stationed there...a fact for which I'm eternally grateful. Lots of Navy in San Diego too but you never feel overwhelmed by it like you do in Norfolk.
whossname,
They're toast to a Mk 48. The SSN in direct support damned well better be there to counter the SS and you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Happy now?
With all due respect, Granpa, given the lack of War Hoovers and the sad state of ASW in the fleet today, my money is on the skunk. Given the CSGs speed, it'd be hard for an SS to get a shot in the ocean unless lucky. An SSN and a skilled crew? No bets.
Guest, thanks for letting us know for sure that you're a believer in reasoned discourse. Grandpa is a pretty damn smart man and only a fool with disrespect him.
Guest: You talkin to me?
I spent two years in prison there..........errr was it stationed there on a big deck amphib. Did all east coast ports plus San Diego and would put Mayport number one by a larggggggggggeeeee margain, San Diego number 2 and Norfolk last place by a largeeeeeeee margain.
Thank you, Byron, for para 2. Kinda agree with para 1, although a good SS skipper tends to make his own luck, I've seen it. Our nukes are either superb or far from it, tactically. Retired too long to have a valid opinion of percentage of either group.
Sooo. Any single encounter, no bets, either way. Too long since last time.
By the way, last time out, long time ago, the pros from Dover, (about) 1.6 %(or was it 16% - damn old man's swiss cheese memory) of the Navy, lost 1/5 of their own boats and sank half the warships & way more than half the merchant marine of the Japanese. Rough league, old chap. The Krauts, no slouches, lost more like 4/5 or so of their boats. Never laid a glove on a USN CV. I'll let somebody else look up the exact numbers.
Over a campaign, put all my chips on the square marked USN.
The USN did fight that Cornoado bridge for many years...
The other urban legend is that if the channel was blocked by the bridge, they would blast through The Strand to the sea. I find that less believable.
I enjoyed being stationed in Norfolk. I was there for four years and before that I grew up over in VA Beach in the early 80's. The biggest thing I loved about the place was all the history all with in a day's trip of Norfolk. On top of that DC, OuterBanks, Tabacco Road, all with in a weekend of the place. I would take Norfolk over going to California if I couldn't stay in the WA state area.
The town hates the Navy, but I think they hate all of the military. It might be one of those forced marriage issues. The military has been in the Norfolk area for so long that both of them are battered spouses. I remember one time way back when I was a kid in Norfolk. The story told by my folks, was that Norfolk passed some tax that would have hurt the military families in the region. In turn the bosses started to pay everyone in $2 bills and told everyone to start shopping at the Commisary and NEX. That went on for about 6 weeks before the Norfolk Politicos reciend the tax after they saw thier tax revenue drop.
Goblin, Byron...please...skunks are those surface unknowns.
Could always do it and call it a broken arrow thingy....
My thought: Too many bad guys are getting a good night's sleep, not far from our ground troops...
My mid did his summer cruise n the Reagan! Cool!
I will send the corollary photo tomorrow of traffic backed up across the bridge all the way to 10th street. Glad to see all those folks home and safe for a few days, but methinks a sailors-only ferry from 32nd Street to NAS would help out all concerned...
psst, Grandpa, I'm on your side, but remember the BLOCK ISLAND and U-549?
xformed,
Well most of the fleet has been rode pretty hard with the FRP and put to bed wet. One of the guys in my class is supposed to deploy in the Regan, but due to some issues with her engineering plant, she can't deploy on her planned day. I just finished up a deployment on the Nimitz and during our work up cycle we spent an underway period doing water hours cause the water processing plant went tits up and the only place to get parts was up at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard. It was so bad that they weren't even doing laundry, do you know how degrading it is to recycle dirty stinky clothes cause the ship can't produce even enough water to do your laundry. On a Nuclear power ship no less!
Here is something else scary for everyone. There are only three dry docks in CONUS that can support the current Nimitz class carriers. Two in VA and one in WA.
For you all complaining about traffic at North Island, I was in Norfolk when there were five carriers in port during the holiday season 1999 to 2000. That traffic was a pain in the region. To the point that we were all staggering working hours to try and ease traffic on both Tidewater Blvd, I264, I64, and even Wards Corner was an issue.
Kind of reminds me of Pearl Harbor and Battleship Row. Targets.
Scott the Badger: "Remember.....?". Yep, CVL's count as part of the escort, strictly close in melee stuff. Jeeps weren't in the same category as CV's. That one earned her place in the pantheon, her crew are heroes, damn fine sailors to the end.
Tough scrappy bar fighters.
I also remember what happened when U505 tapped the Guadalcanal Task Unit on the shoulder for a dance. Albert David, another name to remember, got the Medal for going down the bridge hatch and shutting the scuttling valves (for lack of a better term). But we digress.
To be fair, Norfolk isn't the only town in Tidewater. Va Beach always seemed well aware which side its bread was buttered on. Newport News ditto. Norfolk suffers from too much inner city and all that jazz. A lot of sailor jump over Norfolk to commute to the Peninsula or the beach or out Suffolk way. I don't know the count now but in the late 80's about 85,000 sailors came in to work at the Naval Station. Not the Shipyard, the Portsmouth Naval Hospital, Dam Neck or the NAS, just Naval Station Norfolk. Since the Navy closed down other places to consolidate on Norfolk, it still has to be pretty high. Wonder what it is now?
Norfolk is now #2 in DOD payroll in the nation. SD is #1 (2008 numbers are the latest) for the first time in many years.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/aug/30/san-diego-military-payroll-tops-nation/
Get over it, Guest. Talking trash is an old Navy tradition. It's just like fans of football teams talking smack.
If you are a serving member of the Navy then it's high time you grew a thicker skin. If 3364's comments upset you, then I'd hate to see how you would react during something stressful, like a missile hit or a fire.
Oh man, I remember that pain. And I was commuting from Chesapeake to my 2nd Joint Penance job up at FT Useless (Eustis) at the time.
The only thing I don't miss about Norfolk is if your in downtown Norfolk and there is an accident in any of the three tunnels that feed the town during the rush hour, you might as well just find a nice place to sit down at. Since it won't clear out for about two hours. Typically happens at least once or twice month and the best ones were the Downtown tunnel going to Portsmouth, the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel, and then the Monitor-Merrimac.
Albert David's MOH was particularly well earned. To go into a sinking U Boat and having to find the sea chest valves before closing them takes more courage than I have.
Wow, I din't think my little dig at the surface force would raise such a stink! Just remember, a while back the CHICOMS were able to get close to a bird farm and unlike us, they won't be shooting green flares at you.
ShawnP, Every port I've served in (San Diego, Pearl, Newport, Mayport, and Bremerton) has its pluses and minuses but Norfolk is too close to DC, has too many Flag Officers, and the traffic sucks. Although it was many moons ago, I guess I enjoyed Pearl the best. Island lifestyle, lots of training services that were easy to arrange, and the sea detail was relatively easy. Small waterfront community too where everybody knew one another, who to trust, and who could get things done.
<span>"Anyone who thinks otherwise will be shown the county line in a hurry."</span>
-Happy to have those that agree, those that disagree shall be banished. Good way to make _some_ sailors feel wanted, probably the white ones.
I love it when the aged and retired are overconfident.
be nice, Xformed. Byron doesn't know that. He's our shipbuilding expert along with Wharf Rat....appreciate that he cares enough to know our PRO Words
As long as there are Marines near by, sure.....
There was a ferry from downtown to NASNI, but it was deemed an FP hazard and killed a few months ago.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jan/15/north-island-ferry-dock-last-time/
Not true according to this http://hubpages.com/hub/Coronado_Bridge and Ken Kramer, who is SD's unofficial historical trivia guru
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37156116451
Easier for the chicoms to rent a downtown waterfront condo. Beautiful carrier views from there. Plus you can track every ship transiting to/from 32nd St. Only thing they miss is sub movements.
Easiest way to kill a carrier @ NASNI is to stealthily hijack a plane flying to SAN (or use a G5 loaded with expolosives). Divert a little to the left on final and boom. I'd say less than 30 secs reaction time from the time ATC notices the plane going off track.
My taste runs to recent hires who know it all, legends in their own minds, arrogant and largely unknowing. Yum.
So how many greens have you seen/shot? And how many many active dippers and freshly dropped sonobouys have lit of 30 yards from your WQC hydrophone? Do you know what the inside of a hanger deck looks like at night through a periscope.
Here's the real scoop, my younger friend. 10% of the boats, pilots and warships will get 80+ per cent of the kills. 10 -40 per cent will get shot down/sunk, depending on how good the enemy is. I mean KIA. And that assumes we win. The rest will do their best and be glad to survive and proud of whatever successes they got.
Train hard my younger friend, as hard as you can. Pray for luck. Beg God for good subordinates.
Kevin - the urban legend I had heard was not htat it was made extra long to use up funds, but rather to qualify for Federal funding. Something about LT 2 mi long didn't qualify, but I don't know if I believe that one either.
I'd like to think that they tell the people living there before going all nuclear on 'em.
First time I heard of the floating sections was from a docent on Midway last year. My destroyer could harldly make it out of the bay without running down the nav buoys. That whole bridge and CIC team were somewhat challenged.
yeah dude I am.
You want to go out and use a Mk 48 on a CVN?
You tell me the lat and long and I'll tell you where it sank.
as random I got a few years with the "won the war" types on USENET. Then I got married.
The only two times I served with the carrier beasts were not exceptionally credible. One persisted in steaming a mile outside the swept channel all the way up the Red Sea and the other was on fire in SOCAL.
There was this thing you know, in the Pacific Ocean and while DVG managed to bag certain things....Necessary changes having been made, their weren't all that many for a great while there in the Atlantic.
I haven't retired yet. Just a neophyte really.
Man,
My first visit there in my ex Air Force car with a DOD decal that worked just fine at Selfridge ANGB and every other place and the Marine directed me to use a different gate. I drove down to the next gate and turned right and the Marine directed me to a different gate down the road. I went down the road and turned right again and the marines held me for the officer of the day. Who knew that Pass and ID was on the left side of the road? I was an Army brat and figured that Pass and ID must be on the Navy base. I didn't really like that place and glad I wasn't stationed there. I learned more about it from the base CO at Level III antiterrorism. Poor bastard. 43 Flag Officer wives and way more kids living on his naval station after 9/11.
Z5O something one would only get in a dismal and horrible place like Norfolk. In San Diego there would be bodies. We were the guardians of things and when 2 of 3 duty sections hit the armory to draw weapons every night for 19 months they shouted halt halt or I shoot at the guys giving them the weapons and ammo just to be able to say they shot those bastards after a friendly warning even if they were 500 feet away at the time.
Was there at the twilight of Newport as a Naval Base. Newport gave the navy hell over loud noise from the Navy beach and as a consequence the man with a pair invited the city to FOAD. I was just an OC at the time and loved it.
I went to 7th and 8th grades there when the rent was stationed/assigned to the school. Coming back years later was a hoot.
20,000?
What's left there?
If it's like San Diego where, when I was young ships rafted out 2 and 3 abreast and where when I drive by now have 9 empty piers.... Seriously, 2 warships and a single big deck amphib and that's with 3 CVN at the pier. I don't think the missing FF, FFG, DDG are out training alongside the missing DD.
Dude,
AQA?
WAPS
Ring a bell?
I was at sea with TASS. Not the 19 knot TACTASS. TASS.
I'm a graduate of Coordinated ASW school and a LAMPS ATACO grad. I suppose that dates me. Still in.
Oh, and I'm the other guest. 3364's anonymous comments were not directed at me.
Do you have even the slightest passing acquaintance with what a missile hit does to a warship?
I was Repair 5A locker leader and later a CHENG on 2 ships.
I was a Fire Control Officer on a DD.
Have you any idea what you're asking?
You want to look at what happened on Cole, S.B.Roberts or Stark?
Holes don't meld all that well with late 20th century warships. Does it really matter how they got there? You should see what a torpedo does but I could send you a picture of what a harpoon does to a supertanker if you're interested.
So far you have used insult and appeal to authority (your own self certified experience).
Try making a case using facts and examples. If you can, sonny.
As far as the world knows, there was only two times that a warshot of a Harpoon missile happened. Here is the photo. Where VA-85 used it against a Libyan Nanchchuket missile boat. The other time was in 1989 where VA-95 put two of them, with the USS Joesph Strauss using a surface launch version, along with two AGM-123's, four Mk 83's, and a pair of Mk20 Rockeye's and finally a AGM-62B Walleye into the Iranian Sahand (a Vosper Mk5 patrol boat) which didn't sink until several hours after Op Praying Mantis ended.
Lets see the Stark was hit while steaming on peace time conditions so there wasn't any self defense weapons turned on and no one was expecting a missile attack, so the most the ship . The Sammy B was struck by a mine not a missile I know a minor thing, the Stark was struck by two Exocet missiles of which only one actually detonated the other just spread a bunch of jet fuel around, the Cole was actually saved from worst due to bad bomb design.
The only modern shot of a torpedo, short of the suspected NORK usage over the summer, was in 1982 where the HMS Conqueror put three Mk8 torpedoes into a treaty armored light cruiser. You know the USS Phoenix, a cruiser that was put into service in 1938 and then sold off to the Argentines. Her armor scheme wasn't modern 20th century design either and she was struck by a world war two weapon.
The only other time a warshot happened was a sink-ex against the USS America, a few years back, but how many shots it took and what her water tightness won't be released anytime soon since it is classified. Something that NRL, NAVSEA, and a host of others did to see what it would really take to sink a modern carrier. Let alone the three major carrier fires in the sixties, where all three of them (Oriskany, Forrestall, Enterprise) were able to survive. Some where out there (damn google-fu for failing me), that said that what happened to both the Forrestall and the Enterprise was equivalent to surviving some strikes from AS-4 Kitchen class ASCM's. In the case of the Enterprise, she could have pulled into Pearl and taken on a Yorktown style repair job to steam back out for action if needed.
There
Japanese subs nailed Yorktown and Wasp, and Germans managed to nail Courageous, Eagle and Ark Royal... USN subs kill list is probably best known to you all. Expect heavy losses by subs trying to kill CV, but I bet Chinese are willing to trade 10 Kilos for one CVN!
in 1971 Pakistani submarine PNS Hangor sank the frigate INS Khukri, that would be another torpedo action...
SAP, didn't the Tico launch one on a radar ghost in the Gulf of Sidra in '86?
Seems I remember something about that...And it was the first time an Aegis boat put too much stock into the symbology on their "million dollar boards"...
I remember a few years earlier, a buddy in her commissioning crew sniffed, "We don't look at raw video..."
Sort of. One of the Libya fast patrol crafts was zooming in towards the USS Yorktown. THe aircraft from either the USS America, Saratoga, nor the USS Coral Sea could get overhead in time for a shot. So the USS R. K. Turner took a shot. I forgot about that, but looked at one of my references for the actions again. Still my basic point stands is that since the Harpoon was introduced in the late 70's US and the Iranians have been the only folks to use warshot versions of the Harpoon. The Iranians have RGM-84A's and were able to kill a pair of Iraqi OSA class patrol boats with them, and they tried to get a kill against the USS Wainwright in 1989. Due to SLQ-32 and RBOC, the missile went stupid and guided away from the cruiser. If anyone else out there in the world has gotten a warshot version of it off, then that is news to the world. So my question is when was a merchant vessel tagged by a Harpoon?
(guest above was me)
SAP, that book has it wrong on who fired what. I was wrong on which Aegis boat it was. Now I remember it was the then spankin' new Yorktown...a buddy of mine was aboard as an AIC aboard TAD from one of the VF squadrons.
Shortly after 6:00 p.m. (EST), a third Libyan patrol boat approached the USS YORKTOWN at a high rate of speed; the YORKTOWN fired two Harpoon missiles, which hit the Libyan craft.
Anyway, he related that it ended up being a bogus track, and that they quickly learned of a recurring problem with the phenomenon.
What wasn't recognized then was how that kind of anomalous data input presented unchecked can have severe consequences....
I will back up the weird radar problems in the Med, as it vexed me through 4 deployments...But I learned to get my face into the raw video and look at the quality of the return.
Beware the "Vincennes Effect"....
QC your underlying data.
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