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What is Sal drinking?
I'm going to be spending some quality time with the list of Southern cocktails from Garden & Gun through the new year.
I&W
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2011
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May
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- From the shores of Tripoli
- The anti-Memorial Day
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- Did you serve with CAPT Honors?
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- USS SPRUANCE (DDG-111) Update
- '48, '68, or '17?
- AW1, you're going to have a rough preflight .....
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- USNS Cesar Chavez?
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- So Sal, what are your spiritual gifts?
- The life of a RDML .....
- What type of mother?
- Admit it, you're watching it ....
- Photo of the month
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35 comments:
Funny thing is, I find CAPT Honors's behavior in the wake of his DFC to be self-centered and unbecoming of a naval officer. He has shown little of the stoic grace I expect from military professionals who place service before self.
I can't imagine supporting such a mutinous PR campaign - and I wouldn't be surprised to see a BOI hold this against CAPT Honors. Ironically, all precedents indicate he had little to worry about retiring honorably as an O6 before this immature tantrum. Now he will be judged and remembered as much for how he dealt with adversity as much as he will for any previous actions.
CAPT Honors has removed all remaining doubt I might have held about ADM Harvey's decision that he is no longer suited for command.
<p>Funny thing is, I find CAPT Honors's behavior in the wake of his DFC to be self-centered and unbecoming of a naval officer. He has shown little of the stoic grace I expect from military professionals who place service before self.
</p><p>
</p><p>I can't imagine supporting such a mutinous PR campaign - and I wouldn't be surprised to see a BOI hold this against CAPT Honors. Ironically, all precedents indicate he had little to worry about retiring honorably as an O6 before this immature tantrum. Now he will be judged and remembered as much for how he dealt with adversity as much as he will for any previous actions.
</p><p>
</p><p>CAPT Honors has removed all remaining doubt I might have held about ADM Harvey's decision that he is no longer suited for command.
</p>
I did my part!
Sorry Starship Troopers reference O:-)
Command as a popularity contest. Interesting perspective. He could be backing the Navy into a corner with this, but I guess that's a risk he's willing to take. From the Navy perspective, they should be concerned about setting a precedent that if someone is popular enough, their behavior is irrelevant. Is he in charge, or is big Navy in charge?
Seems John C.Harvey is getting an object lesson that "new social media" is a double-edged blade.
While I find Captain Honors' admonitions to be in relatively poor taste, that pales in comparison to CFFC's capricious actions of Captain Honors' relief, particularly with the relief-then-investigate nature in which it was done, in order to appease those outside political interest groups to whom the Navy is now actively courting.
I'd still like to know what actions were taken agaisnt his direct superiors while these films were being aired. And if the airing of these films caused crew moral and performance to go up or down.
Tough call. I do not think this is best but when you are sucked into the hugely snuggly diversity trophy/punishment vortex where your name gets slandered you want to lash out. When one is a fighter, it is difficult to stop fighting. Furthermore the non self serving part of this is to serve notice to Big Navy that to court the diversity beast may have second and third order effects. If reports that certain 4 star members saw, enjoyed then punished 5 hrs later are true then CAPT Honors has made this his fight. Easy to point fingers when the diversity douches are not going after you. This is the civil way to fight as cold cocking or duels are no longer viable options. This will allow him to get out on his terms and if the BOI boots him for this then the Navy can see some effects of their spineless reactionary response to outside forces. Just eat popcorn have a drink and watch the show. Learn the lessons and move on.
Rumors were that the publicity blitz that started the CAPT Honors witch hunt were the doings of some subordinate who was being investigated/punished/chastized/criticized for something job related. This very nicely ended that situation by removing the authority figure who was doing their job (not just watching reruns of his old comedy skits).
What really happened and what is the story about the accuser?
Something about this whole affair really stinks, and the "crude content" of the videos is the least of it. We have the suspicious timing of the easily offended crowd's delayed outrage, the "shoot first, investigate later" firing, and the selective amnesia of every officer senior to Honors who was aware of the videos in real time.
The Navy lost a warrior and got a free castration in the process. What a way to prepare to win wars.
True dat. The whole thing is distasteful, and if I were in Captain Honors' moccasins, I might have even less forbearance.
At least the CO of the Blue Angels isn't asking everyone that enjoyed an airshow to write the Navy. Responsibility and accountability, not a clown show.
ENTEPRISE?
Let's have all our NJP disciplined Sailors line up their supporters on Facebook and their own webpages. Maybe that will get their COs to reconsider.
beg to differ... if his career is being terminated and his pension and reputation are being destroyed because of the complaint of one or two persons who are accusing him of creating a hostile work environment, he has the right to confront his accusers and defend himself with the testimony of potentially hundreds or thousands of people who say he did NOT create such a climate and that his leadership was educational and motivating in a good way. He has rights too, something this poster seems to forget. This isn't a "tantrum." It is an appeal for witnesses on his own behalf.
For those who think this is trial by popularity contest, look at it the other way. Who among you is safe if the word of ONE or TWO people and their complaints can bring down 27 years of an honorable career? Every XO or CO who brings someone up on disciplinary charges will wonder if the knife in the back will come in 2, 3, or 6 years. And the Navy will throw you to the wolves if the complainant can take advantage of whatever PC winds are blowing at the time to fix your red wagon.
This is discipline and punishment taken to the point of vengeance. Somebody's head on a pike, any head will do....
That's a door the Navy opened to its own peril.
Here, mefixie for ya:
"Let's have all our NJP disciplined Sailors line up their supporters on Facebook and their own webpages. Maybe that will get their COs to reconsider career-ending disciplinary measures taken ex post facto for high performing expensively trained personnel who were not warned at the time that their actions would someday in several years be considered in a different light by a newer, more timid generation of "war fighters."."
if we refined this a bit could it be that the bunch in charge of selling us hardware and the bunch that are the diversity industry, figure that we will never get into a fight that will need the best that we have or that if it does happen they will be safely gone?
C
<span>Capt. Honors has no need to fall on his sword. It is already firmly planted in his back.</span>
<span> </span>
<span>Wait until </span><span>ADM</span><span> Harvey et al realize what exposure USN Diversity will receive once they put the captain up against a public wall. Wonder if they will have the stomach for that kind of <span>scrutiny?</span></span>
<span></span>
<span> </span>
<p><span> </span>
</p>
Wouldn't waste the key strokes.
They got a stern talking to?
anon,
the point? It's way over there.
CAPT Honors has my 100% support...for permanent dismissal from the Navy. Time to go home CAPT H with some degree of dignity remaining. Why would you want to serve on some third rate staff after commanding a CVN. What purpose would that serve you or the USN?
Does anybody know who his appointed JAG is? This could be a lot of fun for those of us who are paid to play "aggressor squadron" to the Admin/diversity bullies......
And, come to think of it, a victory would allow CAPT Honors to retire with dignity and honor, at his chose pace....
I say we tee it up, put together some defense funds, and grab some seats in the hearing room to watch the show.
Or go work for his case....
Delta,
I beg to differ. This is not about how CAPT Honors found himself in the predicament he is in. That was just political expediency. Everyone recognizes that.
However, subiconoclast has a very valid point. The hand-writing was on the wall with this one and all the but, but, buts in the world will not get CAPT Honor`s job or his reputation back. Especially if he is the loudest one yelling. And to the point that given some of the high profile cases of late (CAPT Graf comes to mind) he probably would have had no problem retaining everything he is entitled to. But everyone knows it is a losing proposition to try to show the Navy is wrong in public. That has a tendency to come back and bite you.
To your point though about who among you is safe. None is the answer. It is now and has been for at least the last 20 years an absolute fact that it only takes one Sailor to utter one of a few key words to threaten a CO, XO (or anyone else in the Sailor`s chain) with loss of career. You can`t ignore a complaint. As trivial as it may appear. To do so will get a CO fired as well.
This isn`t punishment to the point of vengeance, at least not yet. CAPT Honors lost "his" command as have about 10 (ish) others this year. He was the first of CY-11 and oddly the only one people are still talking about. Was his more political that the other`s, absolutely. But I suspect if he keeps pulling the tiger`s tail he will not like the outcome. They (big Navy) have used him as an example once this year. I`d think twice would be just as easy.
Just my opinion.
CTRCS(RET)
There's responsibility and accountability, and there's overkill. He was dfc'd. His career is over. Now we're just getting mean.
<span>I'd meant to sit this thread out, as my opinions are informed speculation at best, and uninformed rectal emissions at worst. But I'll offer this, since it dovetails with some of my running commentary on the topic of "diversity":
<span>“If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him” -- Cardinal Richelieu</span>
Or, if you prefer, both Jesus and Socrates faced similar circumstances, where their real "crimes" were simply being in the way of, or a nuisance to, certain others. It's pretty much one of the oldest plays in the book, and it's been getting worse in America of late, though I'd note that there's plenty of examples of such from both sides of the political aisle.
I don't know this man as you all do, I don't know this situation's background or have inside scuttlebutt as you all seem to. But as a civilian who reads the news, it seemed quite clear to me that the official reasons given were just the typical Corporate Kabuki BS. Just a matter of whose BS is really in-play or at-fault.
Speaking as an outsider with limited facts, everything about this seems very ill-advised on the part of and towards everyone concerned. But FWIW, something in my gut tells me that this isn't the battle on which to pin anyone's hopes of stopping the true "Diversity" abuses: I find myself doubting that anyone who screened for flag, with all the politics inherent to such, would be so foolish as to not have some trump cards that haven't been shown yet. Then again, stranger things have happened.
But, short version: seems like an awfully high-stakes poker game that's developing, given what's been made public record thus far. Somebody's going to walk away without their shirt.</span>
* I did a minor self-deprecating edit. I hope nobody minds. ;)
Senior Chief,
I beg to differ with your comment. This is precisely how Captain Honors found himself in this predicament.
Had he been disciplined or even relieved at the time when many of his seniors viewed the videos, one could have argued that the punishment was excessive, but also reasonably that the matter was promptly and decisively dealt with.
Five years hence, when a new and more politically sensitive Navy decides to act upon the complaint of a disgruntled sailor or officer who faced discipline by Captain Honors, that goies way beyond political expediency, and in fact opens the door for any ex post facto discipline or administrative punishment senior Navy officers choose to mete out, irrespective of whatever action, if any, had already been taken. Double jeopardy, plain and simple.
This is indeed punishment to the point of vengeance. Admiral Harvey meted out the punishment, but the disgruntled sailor or officer got his/her vengeance, sure as you are reading this. The Navy ensured that by caving to the pressure of a political/social advocacy group they have chosen to court in the furthering of that group's agenda.
While there are points to be made that Captain Honors' quest seems a bit unseemly, there is also the much larger point to be made that the Diversity/PC cabal in the higher ranks of DoD have so far counted on the good manners of those whom they bully and persecute. Perhaps some pushback stronger than they are used to, or anticipated, will peel away some of the layers of obfuscation they wrap themselves in, and show us just how powerfully they have been entrenched and how much sway they have over what is supposed to be a bind justice process that has been made anything but.
<span>Senior Chief,
I beg to differ with your comment. This is precisely about how Captain Honors found himself in this predicament.
Had he been disciplined or even relieved at the time when many of his seniors viewed the videos, one could have argued that the punishment was excessive, but also reasonably that the matter was promptly and decisively dealt with.
Five years hence, when a new and more politically sensitive Navy decides to act upon the complaint of a disgruntled sailor or officer who faced discipline by Captain Honors, that goies way beyond political expediency, and in fact opens the door for any ex post facto discipline or administrative punishment senior Navy officers choose to mete out, irrespective of whatever action, if any, had already been taken. Double jeopardy, plain and simple.
This is indeed punishment to the point of vengeance. Admiral Harvey meted out the punishment, but the disgruntled sailor or officer got his/her vengeance, sure as you are reading this. The Navy ensured that by caving to the pressure of a political/social advocacy group they have chosen to court in the furthering of that group's agenda.
While there are points to be made that Captain Honors' quest seems a bit unseemly, there is also the much larger point to be made that the Diversity/PC cabal in the higher ranks of DoD have so far counted on the good manners of those whom they bully and persecute. Perhaps some pushback stronger than they are used to, or anticipated, will peel away some of the layers of obfuscation they wrap themselves in, and show us just how powerfully they have been entrenched and how much sway they have over what is supposed to be a bind justice process that has been made anything but.</span>
<span><span>Senior Chief,
I beg to differ with your comment. This is precisely about how Captain Honors found himself in this predicament.
Had he been disciplined or even relieved at the time when many of his seniors viewed the videos, one could have argued that the punishment was excessive, but also reasonably that the matter was promptly and decisively dealt with.
Five years hence, when a new and more politically sensitive Navy decides to act upon the complaint of a disgruntled sailor or officer who faced discipline by Captain Honors, that goies way beyond political expediency, and in fact opens the door for any ex post facto discipline or administrative punishment senior Navy officers choose to mete out, irrespective of whatever action, if any, had already been taken. Double jeopardy, plain and simple.
This is indeed punishment to the point of vengeance. Admiral Harvey meted out the punishment, but the disgruntled sailor or officer got his/her vengeance, sure as you are reading this. The Navy ensured that by caving to the pressure of a political/social advocacy group they have chosen to court in the furthering of that group's agenda.
While there are points to be made that Captain Honors' quest seems a bit unseemly, there is also the much larger point to be made that the Diversity/PC cabal in the higher ranks of DoD have so far counted on the good manners of those whom they bully and persecute. Perhaps some pushback stronger than they are used to, or anticipated, will peel away some of the layers of obfuscation they wrap themselves in, and show us just how powerfully they have been entrenched and how much sway they have over what is supposed to be a blind justice process (or meritocracy) that has been made anything but.</span></span>
If his conduct was above reproach, he wouldn't be in this situation. He took the risk. If you cant figure out what he did wrong, here's a hint: don't act like a drunk JO when you're on ships TV as the CO or XO, or Dept Head for that matter. This isn't a made for TV movie.
Guest,
I certainly didn't insinuate that his conduct was above reproach. And you know it. But to be punished five years later, when his seniors at the time had full knowledge of those videos, is despicable.
When you are looking for conduct that is not above reproach, start at the top and work your way down. Big Navy and Admiral Harvey pop up long before you get to Captain Honors.
I thought he hired Charlie Gittins but I may have misread that.
That was supposed to be yrs not hrs.
What are you talking about URR? They have been above reproach haven't they? They gave us minimal manning, LCS, combat Smurfs for uniforms and a diversity division which seems to have replaced political officers from the USSR. Yeah going after a Captain for poor taste and hurting somebody's feelings vice purging the upper level ranks of waste, fraud, and abuse associated with a lack of courage or honor and a bow to politics seems FAR more important.
But the CO didn't wait 5 years to act.
But the CO didn't wait 5 years to act.
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