Monday, August 09, 2010

NWU parade of fail


OK, they look nice ... but ... the logic train is just pathetic.

We wish to decrease the Seabag; so we increase it.

We wish to save Sailors money; so we require many and more expensive items for them to purchase.

We want to simplify - so we complicate.

Chew on this.
"The NWU Type II/III approval is a culmination of a four-year effort comprising all of the expeditionary stakeholders, ensuring we capture the true operational requirements our Sailors' need to succeed on the battlefield," said Master Chief Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician Robert McCue, NWU Type II/III Conformance Test Monitor. "They provide unmatched capabilities to the warfighter enabling tactical advantage and enhancing mission success thus saving lives."

The NWU Type II (desert) uniform will be worn by Navy Special Warfare (NSW) operators and Sailors assigned to NSW units or units which directly support NSW operations. The NWU Type III (woodland) uniform will be the standard camouflage uniform for all personnel, to be worn in non-desert environments, including most stateside areas. The only difference between the two uniforms is the camouflage pattern.

The NWU Type III will replace the existing tri-colored woodland camouflage utility uniform, will be the standard camouflage uniform worn in CONUS, and can be worn while deployed as prescribed by combatant commanders. Occasion for wear of the NWU Type III will be the same as the current woodland camouflage utility uniform per NAVADMIN 188/09.
Nice to see the Master Chief likes to play Bu11sh1t Bingo too ... and if you are a Sailor in the desert and not NSW related ....

You know - you could have just gone with multi-cam and saved everyone the trouble - but that would be too simple and cost effective.

One of our Sailors summed it up in an email well.
I thought the whole plan with this sea bag change was to reduce the size of my seabag. I mean if I have to have 15 different NWU styles based on where I am stationed, then really what was the point?
"Well wife, these NWU's are for when I am on at a sea going command, but not at sea; these are for when I am ashore, but not in CONUS; These are for when I am IA to OCONUS but still in NATO Europe; these are IA but in HOA TOA; these are for IA in the 'Stan; these are for sea going and deployed on a ship; and finally these were for that last staff tour I did where the O-9 couldn't make up his mind what he wanted to wear. Oh and that is my flight deck gear for just in case. So that means you just can't bring any of your clothes cause we are now over our limit for household goods just in my uniforms."
Or was it just trying to be all "hopey changey" while thinking of the children? I would kill to be back in the standard bell bottom dungrees.
All this in more time than it took to fight the Second World War.

Just griping from the sidelines? Perhaps. Demonstrating a perfect example of the slow, inefficient, and ineffective bureaucracy that we have? Yes.

For some side fun - who wants to take the time to demonstrate the NWU's failures already from the above pic?

I'll start. Note the wear difference and fading (ship's laundry hasn't changed, I see) ... there is more - have fun in comments.

On a serious note - let me put on my white vest - in case no one knows .... in a flash fire, velcro burns like the plastic it is. I don't think NWU are NOMEX .....

Glad to see coveralls are going down fighting though.

74 comments:

Chief said...

I may be forced to get rid of my beloved wash khaki, but I'll still wear my coveralls every chance I get. You may call it 'organizational clothing' or whatever you wish.

SCPO said...

As per the new SECDEF's military budget cuts...we will nickel and dime ourselves out of business. 

MR T's Haircut said...

MCPON,

Really?  Dude.. Really?

AW1 Tim said...

I will once more stand upon my soapbox, and quote from the Book of AW1Tim, to wit:

  For the enlistedman, there shall be a set of dungarees, with denim bell-bottom trousers and chambray shirts, with iron-on rank devices and stencilled names. All shirts shall be of a long-sleeve pattern, and in warm weather, permission is granted to roll up the sleeves. a jacket of the appropriate pattern will be issued to compliment the dungaree/work uniform.
 For all other purposes, there shall be a set of dress blues comprising piped jumper with 13-button bells, and a complimentary white jumper and bells, sans piping for warm climates. All rating badges to be of matching material and sewn in place. With all uniforms, the white dixie-cup hat will be worn, unless otherwise directed by competant authority. A Pea Coat, of the type currently on file, will be issued for wear with either blue dress, or white undress uniforms.
  Add appropriate footwear, and the list should be complete.

  Wasn't that easy?

  When circumstance demands, camouflage uniforms of the type currently authorized to USMC personell will be issued, with appropriate Navy metal rank applied/substituted for USMC devices.  For those whose duties require it, overalls of the appropriate pattern will be issued.

  The addition of such foul-weather gear as deemed appropriate will be made at no cost to the individual, to consist of such items as foul-weather jackets, watch caps, sweaters, etc.

LT B said...

TFU is STILL AFU!

Southern Air Pirate said...

Okay let me see if I get this right for just on the outside. The Department of the Navy via the CNO office is making numerous changes to our sailor uniforms as ways to appease the kids. Meanwhile, there is a segment inside the USMC that want to re-name the department to Department of Navy and Marine Corps. So if that is true has any of our SpecWar and SeeBee units taken a look at what the USMC spent their money on for a uniform? I mean what the MCPON is wearing looks a whole bunch like the woodland BDU's that some of the Marines near me are wearing on off days. So why not save our money and adopt what the Marines are using, or is that against tradition? Oh and if given the choice I started my career in bell bottome dungrees and would kill to go back to them.

AW1 Tim said...

You and me both, shipmate. You and me both. I loved the dungaree uniform. It lasted forever and was easily identifiable anywhere as NAVY!

Retired Now said...

My granddad joined the Navy in 1938 as an Ensign.  Like all newly commissioned officers, he had to purchase all those Tropical WHITE uniforms,  full set of working and Dress KHAKI with blouse,  and full DRESS Blues that all officers wear even to this day.   Along with both White and Blue Mess Dress uniforms !     Well, following a tour on some cruiser until 1942,  Granddad ended up being stationed on the commissioning crew of USS MISSOURI and soon was deployed to the Pacific.   He told us that Admiral Bull (headed) Halsey decided that the Battleship Sailors needed to change into less conspicuous uniforms.   The Navy Dept had devised in WW II,   and granddad soon had to purchase at own expense, a full set of NAVY DRESS and WORKING GRAYS !!     Very similar to dress and working Khakii's.     Well, sailors (and Officers)  on weatherdecks onboard USS MISSOURI would not be seen by the enemy, or so the "thinking" went.   After WW II  ended,  my granddad applied to Flight school and was soon in Florida, where he ended up graduating as a Naval Aviator after a while.     So, guess what he wore all thru the 1950's  ?   Granddad had to purchase yet another full set of DRESS GREENS,  known as Aviation Greens, which have been Air Dales' favorite uniforms for many decades.

Morale of the Story ?    Plus ca change,  Plus c'est la meme chose.      C'est la vie.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Note that the whole uniform thing for EM's was solved on half a sheet of paper by the AW1. 

For those who need camo, substitute the ACE for the EG&A in the pattern and let the Marines design those forever more. 

Shipboard only: Issue an intl orange t shirt for all shipboard personnel for man overboard use and put a retroreflective tape inside the dixie cup, watch cap  and ball cap for MOB at night, and Bob's your uncle.

For officers on ships,  long sleeve blue or khaki (preferred) dickies shirts and pants, or coveralls, on board ship. No ribbons. Garrison cap unless quarter deck watch, no hats beyond the sea bouy except ball caps.

Anybody wants to wear an army uniform, transfer 'em the Army. Permanently. Ditto Marines.

And never waste money manpower and time on uniforms ever again.

偉曹琬 said...

第一忠誠,第二勤奮,第三專心工作。..................................................

CMH said...

NSW and their indentured servants get the desert Type II, but all those NECC sailors are stuck with the DCU when forward, and the Type III when in the rear. Sounds to me like TFU just added to Joe's seabag not reduced it.

...and a future "fail" prediction: Since this is an org item, specifically forbidden for sale at the NEX, there will be insufficient stock for deployers and Joe will go to battle w/o enough clothing. TFU senior enlisted, however, will be fully outfitted as will all shore staff officers/enlisted.

CDR,  your "staff reduction" proposals need slight adaptation. The "Salamander Plan", should be expanded to include RUNDMCs (CMD/FLT/FOR/yaddaCM) and their staffs as well. There are apparently too many MCPOs laying about not at sea if TFU continues (yes, kids, this ain't the first fail train from that crew) to produce such fine products for the Fleet.

Maybe it's late, maybe I'm feeling old, but this post and the attendant reading at the NAVFAC site just ticked me off.

v/r
Chris

SNAnonymous said...

Just what we need, more uniforms so that we can look non-uniform.  If SECDEF wants to cut admin costs, start with TFU.

MR T's Haircut said...

And I washed my SeaFarers 20 times before wearing them for the first time so I wouldnt look like a bootcamp.. ahh the smell of fresh cleaned Dungarees, Starch and Kiwi Shoe polish...

Southern Air Pirate said...

Too bad as a way to reign in the aviators Boorda and Jay both decided to start and limit Aviation Greens to only watch standing and some other functions. Now it is rarely seen on most of my aircrew officers, unless they came in before the change. I remember my dad and my godfather use to have a set of greens in thier garment bags for those days when it was too warm for blues, but still too cold for khakis. Meanwhile just recently helping my dad clean up his boxes of Navy stuff we found uniforms going back to when he was in going back to 1968. There he had dress blues jumpers that were actually blue, not like the current version that are black; working blues that were just blues with out the white pipping all over the place, dress whites with black pipping, and the classic working whites (aka Good Humor Ice Cream). Just before he made chief is when CNO Zumwalt made the change to have the sport coat and combination cover that nearly every one else had at the time to replace the whites and blues at the same time, meanwhile the working uniform was still dungrees as it had been since the end of WW2. The most expensive outlay my dad remembers was switching from an AQ1 to an AQC.

Also any old school sailors remember when there were locker clubs in places like Pearl, Yokouska, Norfolk, San Diego, Alameda? Remember when we all had to go on liberty in either working or dress uniform?

C-dore 14 said...

I remember the locker clubs from when I was a Midn.  Most of them were gone once the Z-Grams authorized civilian clothes on board.

Also remember the club regulations that required a coat and tie in the main dining room of O'Clubs in the evenings.

Westpac Warrior said...

Couple of things.  The Marines will never allow Sailors to wear the MARPAT or anything that looks like it.  The stories about the hissy fits USMC leadership threw when the desert pattern came out and the subsequent lack of stones USN leadership had and backed down on USN wearing it have been told here before.  Why won't the Marines let Sailors look like Marines (other than it's just wrong?). Might be messdeck rumor but word has it the Marines were sensitized to others looking like them in the 90's in Haiti when the Haitian Police shot at Marines.  When asked why, the police said they thought the Marines were soldiers and had the Police known these people they were shooting at were Marines they would have never pulled the trigger.  That flew up the USMC CoC and the MARPAT was born and the BDU started its slow and pianful death spiral.  When the Army was developing the ACU they came sniffing around to have a look and the Marines wrote the eagle, globe and anchor into the pattern (and contract) and @ssed the Army out of a similar design for the reason I stated above (the Army could not/would not use the pattern because of EG&A - go figure).  Second item I wanted to bring up, the type II is a disaster with that velcro.  Being spitstuck to an Army unit, I currently wear ACU's (service dress cinderblock).  Ever tried to go in or out of a tent with that ACU on?  The velcro from the tent flaps sticks to your arms and any other surface with exposed fuzzy velcro.  It's like fighting your way out of a seriously sticky spiderweb.  Also when washing the coat, if you don't turn it inside out and secure all the velcro, everything in the wash that can stick to velcro (like socks) will get knotted up into the coat and you end up with a big ball of cr@p that takes 5 minutes to untangle.  What does the navy need that velcro for anyway?  Rockers?

Curtis said...

They used to pay a uniform allowance.  $700 or somthing like that

NBIP said...

Marines wear a distinct uniform, different from all the rest.  As far as I know they allow two others to wear that uniform.  Corpsmen and Chaplains.  They don't want anybody at all else to wear Marine uniforms.

Last I saw, all of NECC gets a pass and continues to wear cammo uniforms.

LT B said...

I USED to be proud to wear my uniform.  Wearing that POS combat Smurf is disgusting.  The Type II and III look equally bad.  This isn't rocket science and there is just too many people w/ not enough to do.  Maybe TFU should go to sea and start doing some PMS and do something useful. 

Guest said...

My understanding is the reason only SWU can wear Type II is because it looks too much like the USMC's desert pattern.  The Marines didn't want anyone else being mistaken for a Marine.

Guest said...

Everyone is talking about the colors, but why are we wear testing different pockets, closures, etc.?  This has gone beyond getting different color patterns for different areas - they are making entirely different uniforms.  WTF?

Who the hell thought of this?  And where are the CPOs calling bullsh*t?

SWOINATOR said...

I don't know what all the fuss is about.  I can only see one person.. oh wait... now I see all the people.  That cammo on the ship really works well and is functional!  *DONT_KNOW*

On the real side, the only good change in unifroms was the issued coverealls to ship goers because everyone was weating them anyway getting dirty. Why the further change? Who is driving this train wreck? Should be dungarees and coveralls - just like the old days.

FOD said...

Heritage. 

Take a look at the picture at the link.  Then imagine the same old Sailor surround by men in NWU (or whatever you call that new khaki/black Marine looking uniform I've seen people wearing).  http://outtacontext.com/life/archive/000252.shtml

Heritage. 


All in all, the continued focus on uniforms simply demonstrates a lack of seriousness on the part of Naval leadership.  I drop it in the lap of my former CMC colleagues.  For a Navy at war, you have spent way too much time working on uniform issues. Heritage means something to the CPO community. Get serious.

YNSN said...

In the Army, organizational clothing is taken care of by the Army. While deployed you get a 1 for 1 trade in whatever you need with a cash limit every month. For instance, you can trade out the blouse and trousers of the ACU in a month, or the boots.

With the multitude of uniform options we have in the Navy. Demanded by the various environments and working conditions we have. It makes sense to change the way we allow Sailors to replace their uniforms. After first issue at boot camp, set up a system where the Sailor can trade in their uniform items they must ware in the performance of their duties, to include boots. I don't want to get into the minucia of how it could be done (there are a thousand good ways it could be done). But, giving a flat amount to Sailors every year at the anniversary of their joining the Navy is just plain dumb, and setting Sailors up for failure... Of course I am going to find a thousand other things I need before I think about my uniforms.

Yes, it is a pointless sense of pride that makes us continue with our own poor iteration of the USMC's uniform. I have little doubt in my mind that the USMC desert uniform is in every way superior to the NWU. As the ACU is superior the NWU and many Soldiers consider the USMC uniform superior to their own.

I've said it before: The Army approaches it's uniforms as equipment, they have PEO Soldier. PEO Soldier studies the Soldier and finds ways to make them most combat effective. There must, and there has to be an analoge for us in the Navy to do the same. Corporals just as all E4s have a strategic dimension to them. We are ignoring this fact, and we do so at our own peril.

slarty said...

ilya un MCPON? ici?

cdr ashore said...

wtf!

Grandpa Bluewater said...

WestPac Warrior:  No sailor should wear an eagle, globe and anchor, unless serving attached to the Marines.   Change the pattern from EGA to ACE for other sailors who need CAMO, Seabees, SEALS, Joint command center in the pentagon, cooks peeling spuds for the white house mess, whatever.  The rest of the sailors wear sailor suits, duh.

The Marines had a hissy?  Tell them to mind their manners and stick to their knitting. Much as I love and admire them, sometimes they get a bit big for their britches, just like sailors (naval officers are sailors, or should be working on the signature at least).

LBG said...

There are members of the Goat Locker in DC that are securing jobs post Navy w/ this silliness.  It seems the Washington Silliness sinks down to the enlisted ranks too. 

Westpac Warrior said...

The point is the Marines willl never allow Sailors to use that pattern because they don't want Sailors looking like Marines.  It runs from the guy who looks like a food blister on one end to the "that's my service identity" on the other end.  If we (USN) want a cammo uniform we ought to be talking to the big green machine.  They might play a little nicer with multi-cam.  No beret beanie caps though. 

C-dore 14 said...

As I've said before, we've taken something easy and made it hard.

BTW, in addition to looking stupid, those "Aquaflague" NWUs really look uncomfortable compared to the old dungarees and wash khakis, especially for shipboard wear.  Maybe one of you folks who've worn them can correct me. 

LBG said...

C-dore,
   They are hot and the fabric is pretty heavy.  I've not been anywhere cold in them and tried to wear foul weather gear w/ them yet. 
   As I was putting on my blue bandana before putting my helmet on, I realized it looked a lot like my uniform.  I wondered if the Sailors in San Diego piss off the Bloods. :)

LT Dan said...

Are we applying the same management methods to uniforms that we applied to successfully execute major shipbuilding programs? We've not been doing well at either recently so we continue to run out the DDG-51's (which are a very good ship btw) Maybe we'll come full circle on the uniforms and go back to what works, coveralls & dungarees. Or maybe take a page from our seagoing brethren and use the coast guard blue utility uniform.

Warrant Diver said...

Chief

once wash khaki's go away as a uniform, you can wear them to work in the morning just like civvies (just no anchors on the collar points)

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Wespac Whatever:
"The Marine Corps will never allow the Navy to.....?" 
Blasphemy on the face of it.
NO other service gets to allow or not allow the Navy to (fill in the blank).  And vice versa.

Always happy to help, to listen to advice, to consider the interest of, to work for the common good.  Allow?  ALLOW!?

Hrmph. Even the existence of the concept is proof the handbasket has arrived in hell.

I never....disgraceful....heresy...never from my lips...where are my blood pressure meds...

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, They still paid an "initial outfitting allowance" to newly commissioned officers when I retired although I don't remember how much it was.  $500-$1000 sounds about right.

Whatever it was, it certainly didn't cover the cost of your uniforms.  When I was commissioned the Regulars (USNA and NROTC) got about $100, which about covered the cost of the mandatory sword.  The NROTC USNR types got $100-200 more.  Of course at USNA they'd been deducting the cost of a full set of uniforms (Blues, Whites, Khakis, Mess Uniforms, etc) from your pay during the previous 4 years.

C-dore 14 said...

Grandpa, Agree with that.  The Marines "piggy-back" on a lot of Navy services, we could "piggy-back" on their uniforms to reduce cost per set  ;)

C-dore 14 said...

LBG, Thanks.  They sure look hot and bulky to me.

Ronbo said...

Who will explain to my wife that I died from a sniper's bullet because I didn't rate the NSW version of DCUs.  If you are going to trump the combat survivability of a uniform you better make that protection available to everyone.  Its like walking into a fire fight with Lvl II vs Lvl III body armor. The answer to my question is "no one".

ShawnP said...

MCPON visited command in O5 and I got a dirty look for the following. I asked him why Cracker Jacks  weren't going away with a Uniform overhaul. He said it was because of tradition of the Cracker Jacks. I then said well Grog was tradional also can we have that back since the Navy is now into traditional stuff. Task Force Uniform was a farce and a waste of money.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Westpac,

I don't know where the above comment came from, as the USN routinely wore USMC utilities for decades.  The only thing we would not allow is the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor.  Sorry, you gotta earn that.  But they can make plenny o' sets of utilities without that embroidered and without the inlay into the camouflage pattern. 

If you have sailors who are food blisters, that is a Navy problem.  And yes, when sailors like that serve with Marine units and would normally be authorized wear of USMC service uniforms, the unit commander has the discretion to not let sailors who present an unsatisfactory appearance in those uniforms wear them.  I did.  You wanna be a fatass?  Do it in your sailor suit.

C-dore 14 said...

I always did my best to be someplace else when the MCPON came to call.

surfnuccpo said...

C-Dore, they are very hot and bulky.  And the boots weigh a TON.  All-in-all, a failure in every aspect.  I still wonder why we went to them.

Chief said...

Hot as hell, for me, even in the mild Pacific Northwest. I can't imagine what they're like it warmer climes, except purely miserable.

C-dore 14 said...

You guys are confirming my suspicions but you aren't making this former WestPac Sailor (and current PACNORWEST resident) feel any better about this decision.

C-dore 14 said...

They're good to wear while working in the yard after you retire too.

Slarty said...

i and rest of ship's company waited in ranks for an hour for that guy to deign to give us the time of day.  no options.  as ye do to the least of we ye do unto me.  keeps us honest.

Anonymous said...

I hope he said "thanks for coming."  Always made me chuckle on the inside.  

Curtis said...

Sir,

My point was that we paid it to all newly selected CPOS.  We wear an entirely different uniform back then and somebody found it appropriate to pay the men that promoted out of denim and chambray to buy some new khakis and chokers and stuff like that.  I don't recall that it ever came close to paying for it all but it was a nice try and helped.

Curtis said...

oh and the sword.  God that cost.  One reached a certain point where a sword was finally required.  I didn't until I got to that point.

The skipper used to 'store' his in a closet in his cabin and tell us we could borrow as necessary which became somewhat difficult when all of us set out to borrow it.

glab said...

used to pin that teeny tiny 2 ribbon bar on them in my car in order to exit the base of hell.  gate guards figured they must be CNT or double knits.  And good to work on your boat too!

LT B said...

I am down in the Southeast.  Even in an air conditioned OFFICE, the Navy WORKING uniform is uncomfortable, and pretty damned useless.  Thank Christ we have the LCS, otherwise I'd think our Navy's senior leadership were completely out to lunch. 

Westpac Warrior said...

Live in the now.

Westpac Warrior said...

Liked to food blister comment - nice.  My opinion, MARPAT version for USN is a non-starter.  Either go with what you've got (but lose the velcro) or glom onto the Army's multi-cam.  Hey, maybe when the Army dumps ACU for multi-cam we can pull the uniforms out of DRMO.  That'd really save us some moolah - HA!  Sailors in ACU's would look no dumber than Sailors in NWU digi-smurf.  Plus they'd be free issue.

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, I used a sword much more as a Midn than I ever did as an officer.  In fact, during the first 4 years after I was commissioned the only time I used my sword was when my wife and I cut the cake with it at our wedding.

C-dore 14 said...

The one time that I couldn't avoid the MCPON was back in '98/99 right after Desert Fox when he tagged along with SECNAV on a visit to CARL VINSON.  During a meeting with the CVBG leadership he turned on a small tape recorder that he hadn't had the courtesy to inform anyone about.  He didn't look too pleased when I said something like "Admiral, you don't mind if this is recorded do you?"

Redeye80 said...

Nope, you guys have to figure this out on you own.  Unless, you want the Corps to save ya.

Semper Fi Mac

Redeye80 said...

<span>Thank you URR, I was trying to find a way to be civil, you nailed it.</span>

Country Singer said...

OK, I feel like a (sort of) mea culpa is in order.  Back in the late 90's SECNAV and MCPON came out to our ship.  When the topic of uniforms came up, we let it be known that we thought dungarees should be replaced, for the following reasons: 1) Federal prisoners wear the same thing 2) they were ruined the first time anything got on them 3) we had to drive DIRECTLY home if we were wearing them.  #3 we found particularly offensive because of the mindset that the Navy didn't want us seen in public wearing dungarees.  Damn, we didn't want to go clubbing in them, we just wanted to be able to stop and get gas, or a bite to eat.  At any rate, MCPON (rather snottily, I might add), asked us for suggestions.  We asked for coveralls to be authorized for all ship's company, not just engineering.  We were told, "but they wear them in case of fire".  Well, no shit.  Where did the MCPON get the impression that snipes are the only ones to man a repair locker?  We also tossed out the idea for some sort of BDU uniform.  Reply?  "You're at sea, you don't need to be camoflauged."  We agreed; our point was that oil and grease stains would be less noticable, thus making the useful, relatively presentable, service life of a working uniform longer.  I don't think we realized how all this crap would turn out.  Sorry guys....

zloft said...

85, guy lingered for an extra hour in the flag mess while entire ship's company not on watch were mustered for his remarks.  he was the antitalisman of leader and all the chiefs despised him. my experience, one had to really work very very hard to get all the chiefs pissed off. 

zloft said...

sorry sir,
will not allow.  will not forgive.  will not permit.  there are those 2 exceptions.  i don't know, it may be something like stolen valor.  they vested to wear their uniform and, arguably, the other 2 vested too because our history is steeped with what corpsman bring.  the other lot bring God so there's that for them.

BDU, Desert flage,  it was enough for 40 years.  Army chose new pattern of pajamas, marines, and nobody really much cares what sort of thing the air force wears leaving 2 perfectly fine existing uniforms behind which NECC still wears.

That purply thing attracts the eye.  One looks up from reading the paper to verify that something purply/blue is crossing the scene even just in the corner of one's eye. 

I couldn't find the dress long sleeve khaki avec tunic, shoulder boards at NASNI 2 weeks ago.  Guess only CJCS gets to wear that one.

zloft said...

now i think that you are being sarcastic.  bad!  bad!  naughty!

zloft said...

Cammo protects as it blends into an MRAP.

There comes a certain point where the coveralls aint fireproof, the cammo fails to hide, the flight suit fails to fly; stuff like that.  The IED faIL totally to note what color the suit is in the vehicle when they do the killing.   fuzzy heads moving around a fob atop whatever flesh is uniform are rather distinctive to any sniper.  your mileage will differ

zloft said...

oh urr,

I don't know.  There were some navy men that wore that ARMY utility uniform too.  You might have noticed how they chose to distinguish themselves from the USMC by embroidering a SeaBee on them.  Neither the Army or the rest bothered to sew or paint the shirt with a unique smiley.  I never wore it.  In 88 the navy authorized BDU for some of its more fun units.

zloft said...

used to be this elevated train at the Wild Animal Park in sandyeggo where it would come to full stop next to a desert hill cliff.  Driver would then invite passengers to count the mountain goats.  You would look for a minute or two and then notice that there were like 59 goats standing there!

Blend                 In.

Like     Invisible at first glance.


Once the brain sorted it out they were easier to spot.

On the ships, .......i'm going with khaki shorts and T shirts and blue coveralls...that may be worn in the damned chow line.  Topsiders too!  The green won't burn unless they been washed 3 times sucked.

zloft said...

tailhook patch. 

Curtis said...

I too used it in that role at my coc.  slicing up cake.  Many wedding sword arches, mojo cocs

as I recall, the cutoff was, nobody required one until reaching what the army and and air force and marines referred to as field grade.   swhen I plunked for the silly thing which 7 year olds love regardless of gender.  Got to hide it!  as a mid we were banned from their use since they were way more ceremonial than useful and tended to snap when we engaged in sword fighting.  I think the edge on mine would cut through a cheeseburger after no more than a week of sustained effort.

Ever fly with one?  to weddings naturally.  TSA, airline gals tend to look at a man with a sword and wonder why they're scared of box cutters shoes jackets computers and belts and 7 year old girls and CAC.  Massive spasms.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

zloft,

Not everybody outside the FOB rides in a vehicle.  I walked more than a few foot patrols, and the grunts walked them all the time.  Digital camouflage, be it desert or woodland, is remarkably effective.  And the uniform is durable, and not overly heavy, even when wet.

The first utilities I was issued were split-pocket rip-stop poplins.  Light, and comfortable, but tore alarmingly at the slightest provocation (so why were they rip-stop?).  They also had inward-folded pockets that caught on branches, and presumably, trip-wires.  (Vietnam was only 7 years distant.)

The next "dumbo-collar" woodlands were very durable, but when wet, never, ever dried.  And when washed in salt water (aboard ship) turned sky-blue.  Which meant new purchase, because there were Sgts Maj who would make the troops do so. 

The light-weight poplins that followed usually lasted about one field op before the knees, elbows, and back of the blouse (from carrying 782 gear) gave way.  Put a flak jacket on and you were guaranteed to need new ones after two days. 

The lightweight woodlands were damned good.  Durable and dried when they got wet.  This is the material the MARPAT uses.  MARPAT is the best utility uniform since the sateens. 

The new desert boots are even better.  First decent issue of footwear in 28 years in the Corps. 

We did this right.  The Navy and AF?  Not so much.

LT B said...

tsk tsk.  Oh well, the road to hell and all that.  Although, if you were on TFU, you would have taken your suggestions and made the worst choices possible.  Furthermore, instead of choosing same material and cut of other uniforms, you would have chosen the most expensive of the options. 

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Ah me.  The MC should be in charge of Cammies, pesonnel of the naval service, for the use of. For them it is life and death. So Redeye, yes, take forac.

Unique distinguishing marks of no use to enemy snipers, fine. ACE and EGA in the pattern, strict segregation of by service, fine. Non counter to camoflage purposes patches for the Navy, perhaps. Sailors like patches, Marines apparently don't. Or make the Navy upper garment with two rows of buttons in front vice two.

Shoot me first clothing that set one apart at long range when traveling with our esteemed teufelhunden colleagues just to feed the USMC uber alles cult, no.

 (Just because I'm older than the dirt the mud marines play in, do I always have to be the grown up?)

Southern Air Pirate said...

Just reviewing the various options over lunch with some fellow first classes yesterday we all feel as if we are Fashion Loving Ken rather then Action Sailor GI Joe, with all the uniform options. Even worst though is the prices that the NEX is selling these at makes them feel like Collector's Edition packaging rather then basic packaging.

Oh and anyone out there know the true story about the damn NWU t-shirts? I mean I had bought twenty of the t-shirts a year (in the three pack sets) before they rolled out at NASWI and then just after the roll out in my region, a message hits the streets saying that nearly every t-shirt sold and manufactured by the Softee company was the wrong style in accordance with the instructions. In turn now the NEX is selling t-shirts only in a single pack for the same price as the multi-packs. So to get twenty of them costs me nearly as much as getting a full NWU set. Was not anyone noticing this as the roll out was happening in the other regions? Or did no one care until someone on the Khaki Mafia did an sea bag inspection and notice this non-issue?

Warrant Diver said...

Especially neat was when MCPON came to the Warrant/LDO school in Pensacola in 2000 and said he actively discouraged hot running CPOs from applying to the CWO/LDO program so the Chief's Mess wouldn't lose good guys.
 thanks for looking out for the WHOLE Navy, MCPON.

Warrant Diver said...

oh you are busted....

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, Unfortunately they changed the sword requirement to O-4 and above the year AFTER I was commissioned.

sobersubmrnr said...

I liked the sew-on crows and name tapes...except the US NAVY tape on the Utility shirt. That one was a big 'No duh' patch and a waste of money. Change that and make the pea coat authorized for any non-camo uniform and I'm with you.