I could make some snarky comment about, "a 9/10 mindset," but I actually agree with this uniform policy.
Consistent with my support of SDB/SDK only for DC duty - when you show up to serve the taxpayer among Congressmen, Senators, lobbyists, and even the CINC - dress like you are the professional. Don't look like the hired help.
Summer Whites, open-shirt khaki, and all camouflage uniforms are just that - cheap looking and unprofessional in a civilian business environment.
Hey, while we are talking about unprofessional appearance - COMNAVREGSE - I guess you are cool with the NWU being worn in Home Depot, Publix and other places .... because while cruising around Byron's backyard - the CDR and CMDCM's sure don't mind - as they are the ones doing it.
Did they change the wear rules - or does no one care anymore?
33 comments:
Embracing the repeal of DADT before it's time, Combat Smurf! They are so busy trying to push the wear of that hideous uniform, they allow it to be worn out. The instruction, as I recall, lets you wear it out for meals etc. One of the LT's and I were looking so we could say we couldn't wear it as the troops had to go off site to eat. Nope, they have that provision in there. I hate that uniform and have not worn it yet. I wear khakis and SDBs.
I disagree: they represent the warriors in the field, and wearing a warriors uniform should serve to remind both themselves and Congress WHY they dress this way. Regardless what the media might tell us, we are at war.
I will ammend my remarks and state, "so long as it is not the Navy's faux-Air Force BDUs :)
Well, mebbe this'll allow us peons to get the SDK, finally. Saw the CJCS's set in for tailoring some time ago in the bottom of FOB2. At least somebody gets a decent looking uniform.
That is not how it works or is perceived, Byron. You wear the uniform best suited to the environment (ideally). Digichams are not DC appropriate nor are they really office appropriate. When fighting the budget wars, one must wear your classier uniform showing your bling. Besides, the chicks dig that stuff too! :)
<span>Call me General, Senator, I earned it...</span>
Are we really that shallow to think we need to wear flight suits and cammies in an environment where we are surrounded by Business Suits to "remind" us that we are at war? Come on...we're are a much more professional outfit than that!
And just maybe that's why things are so farked up. All the Perfumed Princesses think more about this career and how it will advance the very high paying career, instead of what happens at the pointy end of the stick.
Blue Digital Cammies are a brilliant idea. Why wouldn't an overboard sailor want to blend in?
OK, not trying to be a smart-ass here, but what the heck is winter khaki? I can't find it in the online uniform regs. Did we somehow adapt a lightweight breathable summer uniform for wear during record cold in DC by adding a "winter/" in front of it? It would be comical if it weren't so dangerous to be ice skiting around in Bates Lights. The utility of being able to wear a working uniform is sturdy foot gear! It is pathetic to implement this before SDK is rolled-out. Completely concur with dressing the part around DC - but this is a swing and a miss by Admirals Mullen and Groom.
Show me. http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/USNavyUniforms/UniformRegulations
Anybody that has tried to find a body in the water will tell you it is hard regardless. The old blues don't help either. That's why they have chem lights. There are other concerns I have w/ it. No reason for chammies on a ship anyway. Mostly, it is just service envy and rice bowling and perfumed princesses getting sweetheard deals in post service jobs inside the Beltway. Piss poor leadership. Ya know, leadership by the FITREP bullet.
And, yes, Home Depot is probably a stretch:
http://blog.militaryuniformgouge.com/2009/06/28/navadmin-18809-navy-working-uniform-authorized-for-off-base.aspx
Whis- To answer your question...YES. >:o
We get to wear short sleeves and wool all year round. No fleece, no decent trenchcoat/goretex for a raincoat. We get to freeze and or roast, and or trundle around in overweight reefers/bridgecoats that provide little if any warmth and no water protection. But we look goooood......The deep sea service seems to have forgotten that the water is wet, and occasionally chilly.. :'(
I think there are a lot of officers out there who would agree with this policy (or with the more stringent SDB/SDK idea). A while ago I saw photo from a meeting that included general/flag officers from all four services. Guess which one did not look like the other? Now only if we could get SDK as the only required dress uniform for officers on cruise; that would actually make it a more practical uniform.
Byron, but they've been wearing utilities since 2001.
One of the things that always annoyed me was being told I absolutely 100% HAD to wear a suit to a meeting. No other options allowed. Full stop.
And then you get there and the military guys are there looking (1)comfortable and (2)like they were in someplace other than inside the beltway. Hey, if they get to wear that why can't I wear cargo pants and a t-shirt? Same damn thing.
Two other things
(1)Ask a WW2 or Korea era soldier or Marine if they'd get caught wearing utilities somewhere other than the field.
(2)It seems like the only armed forces that always seemed to love wearing camo all the time for any reason were ones in the third world.
"<span>(2)It seems like the only armed forces that always seemed to love wearing camo all the time for any reason were ones in the third world."</span>
Got to go to the Enlisted Heritage Museum down here in Montgomery, one of the exhibits featured the proto-ABU with the blue tiger stripes (straight out of sub-Saharan Africa). After we all got done laughing our asses off, one of us commented that if we had gone with that uniform, we really needed to go all out with the Third World AF effect and start wearing all our ribbons with it, as well as any other bling we could think of.
I agree 100% with the new policy...while we're at it, it would be awesome if we could do something about the rash of unnecessary flight suits. If you aren't actually going FLYING you don't need a FLIGHT suit. Your ABUs will still have wings on them to remind the rest of us peons how much better than us you are...you earned the wings, not the flight suit.
Sounds like flight suit envy! You picked the wrong service to fight that one. Good luck with that.
I live in Iowa so there is not a lot of Navy around. The ones I see are usually recruiters and they are wearing that blue winter uniform with blue piss cutters. They look like crap. Whatever happened to the Crackerjacks and dixie cups? Both blue and white they are a sharp looking uniform that stands out. Unless you're in country where you might get shot at there is no reason for a Navy camouflage uniform, and if we need one why not just use what the Marines wear? As for flight suits, I'm guilty. I wore one whenever I had the slightest excuse, especially aboard ship. Ashore my theory was that if I was on the flight schedule it gave me an excuse to wear it all day.
Byron --
Got to disagree with you on this one friend. I always took issue with:
(a) BDUs/ACUs/Flight suits in the NCR (always thougt it unprofessional)
(b) Non-aircrew (read: missileiers) wearing flight suits, especially in the NCR.
You didn't see folks in WW2 around the War and Navy departments wearing anything but SDK, SDW, SDB or in King's case, those gawdawful Service Dress Greys. You *might* have seen the occasional Aviation Working Greens, but doubtful.
As one who was there on 9/11 and lost 1/3 of my office shipmates that day, I certainly didn't feel compelled to wear my fligtsuit (and never did) to remind myself that we were at war. there was enough in my daily work and briefings to CNO that kept me aware of that.
w/r, SJS
During a visit to the local NOSC, yesterday, I observed the following:
A YN1 admin was in her khaki/blue uniform and looking sharp - showing absolute pride in her uniform.
A CS2 admin was in NWU Smurf Digicams with the ACE - a tad dressed down as compared to YN1, but still perfectly pressed, showing pride in the working uniform.
The remainder of the command from CO on down was in PT gear, and they weren't going off to a PT session any time soon. It DID look like a pajama party.
By contrast, the Marine I&I staff next door all wore woodland MARPAT utilities, ALL were sharply pressed (irons were available in nearly every office). They change into PT clothing when off to the gym and return to the MTC and their utilities. Pride. Was. Everyhere.
This visit to the NOSC was one of many where the Navy types were in severe dress-down mode.
At a recent awards presentation quarters I counted no less than six uniform types, the new dungaree with light blue shirts, dress blues, khaki/blue, all blue, SeaBee camos, and NWU.
There are too many variations and choices and really weak leadership when it comes to uniform of the day. Just what the hell has happened to pride of wearing the uniform in so many stations?
This decision is long overdue. A true professional doesn't need to wear BDUs to remind him/her that the nation is at war.
Of course even BDUs/ACUs are preferable to the civilian coat and tie "uniform" that we all wore during my first 6 months in the Pentagon way back when.
...so what y'all are saying is the Navy has rendered the word "uniform" a contradiction in terms?
Tsk.
cuz there used to be a time and place where a Navy uniform set all the hearts a 'flutterin'.... :)
HA, reminds me of a class I took on an Air Force base in about 1981. It was during the optional period when we could wear summer or winter uniforms and the Air Force weenies complained about all our uniforms. The next day a few of us wore khakis, one wore winter blue, one wore SDB, one wore trop white, one wore salt and pepper (yuck) and I wore my aviation greens. No one had a choker with them or we'd have had that too. Never issue a challenge to a bunch of Lieutenants when they're away from home. 8-)
The pith helmet really sells the trop whites.
To answer your final question, no one cares anymore. Or at least a whole lot less people care now than did decades ago. When I first joined the gate guards would watch for sailors sneaking off base in dungarees and if you were caught out in town in them you'd lose your civilian clothes privileges for a month. Someone (Boorda?) loosened the rule to allow folks to wear working uniform home as long as you went straight home with no stops. Then some other moron loosened the rules further (because of whining from single moms among others) to allow brief and necessary stops (diapers, baby food, beer, etc). Once you bastardize a rule like that it becomes difficult to enforce. Most of us are not going to go up and check what some clown's emergency shopping involves. The biggest problem is a lot of us wearing khaki decided the loosening meant there were no rules. I've been retired no a few years, but my last 5-10 years it got to the point I couldn't get from home to work without seeing a few violations. You correct the first few hundred you catch. You get name and contact the CMC for aggregious violations. However, when every other violator is a khaki . . . . you get tired of trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
For those of you still on active duty good luck. The chair shiners in DC don't make it easy for you.
Another salient point lurking here - when you're underway and every sailor is a trained firefighter, the flight suit is the only uniform in your seabag that offers any sort of fire retardant protection!
Important to point out with all of the uniform heritage discussions: when you think WW2 Naval Officer you think wash khaki. Everyone wore it on duty - aviators and SWOs alike. That thread of heritage has been replaced [gag] by aquaflage.
The initial experiment allowing enlisted to travel to and from work in dungarees predated ADM Boorda by over 20 years. It was attempted during the Zumwalt years (70-74) and also failed for the reasons you list. When Holloway took over as CNO the pendulum swung back. Some of the older readers may remember that prior to the "Z-gram" E-6 and below (who were not permitted to bring civilian clothes aboard ship) were required to proceed to and from liberty in the uniform of the day.
Part of the issue is that all ranks need to be treated the same way. Senior leaders should be examples, not folks who get a lower or different standard.
Personally, I have no problems with working uniforms being worn at any time, provided that they are clean and neat. It works for every other part of the military.
I can now state what a POS this uniform is in an "expeditonary" environment. I am taking a Carribean vacation right now in Haiti and the digi smurf is a disaster. It's hot as hades - it's thicker than the ACU, usaf clown suit or the MARPAT, the buttons pop off, your boots look like crap in the Haitian dust and an eight corner blue cover just looks dumb. C4F made it a requirement to wear this thing downrange in Haiti because the flags have been told to make people wear it. It's expensive and it doesn't wear well. Thankfully the SEABEE's are still in CUU's and don't look so foolish. It has been a bust. Even the usaf guys are laughing at us. Digi smurf or blue crush - that's what we're known as. Who can I thank for the poorly performing retarded uniform? Former MCPON's who pushed this thanks for nothing. One more dumb thing about the uniform is the expando-matic wasteband. We want to be all about PT and being in shape but we put a fat boy elastic wasteband in the pants. Why? The ACU has a draw string so you can get skinny. Our NWU is made for people to get fat. Dumb.
I've always wanted to rock the pith helmet...
Thank you! I get so sick of hearing "you can't find people when they fall overboard in the digi-cammies!!"
Something tells me the all blue navy coveralls are no better, so find a better reason that these uniforms suck. shouldn't be hard, there's a lot of them! :)
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