Our Russian friends remind us why warships need to be more "robust" than "exquisite."
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Saturday, July 30, 2011
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What is Sal drinking?
I'm going to be spending some quality time with the list of Southern cocktails from Garden & Gun through the new year.
I&W
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48 comments:
"Robust"...yeah, that's a good term for it. Ask Ewok what it's like to try and get past a Kirov and how many damn HARM and Harpoon it takes to kill one of those floating SAM sites. It's a lot easier to put a couple of ADCAPs in her....
I wonder how would LCS fare in the Barents Sea? And before someone jumps with "why would we fight in a such place" please remember the Murmansk convoys... War happens in strangest places...
Don't forget that in the early 80's that John Lehman told CNO that if WW3 broke out, he wanted three CVBGs to go North against the Kola and take it out. I've gamed that and it wouldn't be pretty. I know Ewok played that scenario and he'll tell you it's almost impossible to get past the subs, the bombers, the SSGNs and the rest of the kitchen sink the Red Banner Northern Fleet would through at you. And THIS was the playground everyone would be having fun in!
I don't know sal, that CO's chair was pretty exquisite! Check out at 00:17
Which is how it should be done.
ASW module: vanished.
MIW module: ditto
Top Speed: bare steerageway or hove to:
rolls: very heavy'
Crew: stupid with exhaustion.
combat capability: nil.
Grandpa, I introduced the Harpoon (naval simulation, I'm sure you heard of it) to the old adage, if it's crazy and it works, it isn't crazy with this: Once I found the RED CVBG, I'd start sending out long range Tomcat patrols and at the same time sent the SSN (usually a FLight 2 LA) towards the REDGRP as fast as possible. I'd use the Tomcats to shoot down the RED ASW choppers with Phoenix (waste of missle? Nah!) Then I'd let the sub work in close...real close...like Kirov to port 5,000 yds and Kuznetsov to starboard 4,000 yds. Then I'd put two in the Kirov and two in the Kuznetsov and turn hard towards one of them fast and go deep. Worked like a charm and the sub got away 80% of the time, which to me was a win-win :)
The Austal built ferriers simply cancel their operations when faced with that kind of weather...
COAST GUARD Movie, May 2011, Operating off Alaska in heavy seas:
http://coastguard.dodlive.mil/2011/05/from-the-bridge-of-the-bertholf-a-word-from-the-commanding-officer/
USCG still sends 4,000 ton cutters up to Barents Seas, 2 months ago.
Small boat launching and recovering in Bering Sea off Alaska a couple of months ago.
http://coastguard.dodlive.mil/2011/04/from-the-deck-plate-of-the-bertholf-alaska-patrol/
Let's sea an AEGIS DDG do small boat ops off Alaska !!
Kapitan is a very chill dude.
I've posted several times the clip from the USS Newport News (heavy cruiser) getting stuck in a hurricane on the way back from Europe. Went through that kind of thing for 1.5-2 days. Robust, indeed.
Yup, the nightmare scenario would be Fulda Gap breakout in a middle of Xmas/New year holiday season, half the US personnel is off base, and Russians traditionally loved winter offensives... And then into winter Barents Sea sail 3 CVBGs braving waves of Backfires, Badgers, subs, surface BGs, you name it. Once I tried that scenario, lost 2 CVNs before pasting Kola bases into tundra. One to massive (but first and last) air raid that I decimated with Tomcats, one to lucky Tango that slipped thru my ASW defences. It landed full salvo of torps into my CVN and died promptly.
My fave strategy vs Kirov was to blind its radars with HARM, then send in TASM, and if it floated still, finish it off with either sub torps or big guns of Iowa. Think Bismarck redux...
You kill a ship by letting water in the bottom, not air in the top. :-D
Why is it that every Rooskie ship captain seems to have a prominent mole and a double chin?
And a question for Byron: For a hull form prone to cracking from barber-pole torque and other normal stresses, what effect would 96 hours in the Barents Sea have?
Well recall taking green water over the angle deck on IKE during our transits through the roaring 40's enroute to/from the NAS (no Suez option for CVs then). Tough sailing but she was/is a tough ship - designed in another age for a different Navy. Also well recall the Northern Wedding-exs and all those challenges presented by wx, Soviet Bear/Badger alerts and flight ops in rough seas and fog. Yeah, if it was nuke war we were going north and likely not coming back, but we were going to make them bleed big time in the process. But again, a different Navy back then...
W/r,
SJS
... in Summer.
Greetings:
How nice it is that there's a blankey for the chair on the bridge !!!
Remember Ocean Venture-81 SJS?
There we were...just us and the Caron ~70nm NNE of Murmansk (we had been teamed up south of 32'30" for some interesting times a couple weeks earlier too)
Worst seas I ever had occasion to traverse was the transit home south of Iceland...
Lost most of the stanchions forward, along with a boat boom. One could pass the time in the chow line -which ran inside obviously- watching the crack in the aluminum bulkhead just aft of the scullery work as the ship heaved.
Yeah.
Lets see either LCS in seas like that.
Oh...and the Wiki account is wrong...the Su-22's launched from Sirte to the south. Same ones who had caused a rewal commotion the previous afternoon. We were in the link...The E-2 was not.
Bismarck and about 10 other sunken BBs (dont)like this comment :-P
I have commented often my concerns about LCS2 in these conditions. I have them about LCS1 also, specifically those large hatches by the waterline aft. Losing integrity due to a debris strike or hull torque with the internal doors open to one or more of the cargo bays would be serious and possibly fatal.
I want to see the DDG-1000 maneuver in that stuff!
Imagine being in these amphitheater style spaces aboard that puppy in heavy seas...
Better get the barfometers up and ready.
Of course, that'll be nothing compared to the ugly that'll happen when the bullets start flying...
A multi-billion dollar less than Level I survivability -and unseaworthy anyway- cruiser.
Great addition to the Global Force For Good
Hope all the encapsulated life boats have been checked out, and that the crew has time to use them...
... and then there is ice...
god help LCS that will get in conditions like that BB
Well...
In the times I've been in seas like that...If it lasted more than about 12 hours, I was wishing I was anywhere else.
Did the North Atlantic in January on FFG-8. Only time I've ever been seasick.
Before fin stabilizers or after? I hear it makes a HUGE difference :)
Before fin stabilizers or after? I hear it makes a HUGE difference :)
Loved it aboard ESSEX, as she could really roll. I was able to do CIC or O-10 lookouts when 80% of the ship was sick, and it was great being away from what was going on below decks.
The berthing spaces, and the first and second deck passageways were, uh, somewhat aromatic and slippery.
How much extra topside weight you spose that is?
Far less a percentage than would equally impact an LCS design.
Butt cheeks or no butt cheeks, err, water wings.
http://www.coltoncompany.com/newsandcomment/news/lcs1mod.jpg
Remember? Like yesterday. Heading down the catapult with the fog horn going, EMCON A ops, hearing the LSO's respond to our "Clara" with "Roger Hummer, we hear you, keep it coming..." for recovery, sliding around on the icy deck aqnd watching a VA-66 A-7 sliding towards our stbd prop and hearing him holler over tower to shut it down...and 125 hrs flown in a 22-day period - in dry suits...
Now *THAT* was naval aviation at it's finest :)
w/r, SJS
...and my favorite was when the Buffs checked in with a sh*tpot load of Harpoons :)
SJS, I wrote a test scenario one because I had my doubts about BUFFS with 'Poons. I sent a 3 ship with every Harpoon they could load against a SAG of Kirov, and two SAM CGs. I got a bite of the Kirov, sank one of the others, and lost all three BUFFs. For starters, the launch range for best chance isn't 80 miles, it's closer to 60. Second, Harpoon is slow and dumb and doesn't have squat for evasive manuevers, so it just flies straight and dumb. The RED SAG had a zillion SAMs and a ton of AAA and all but 9 of the Harpoons were shot down.
Now, I use to love playing Harpoon...but the missile they named the game after was pitiful 20 years ago and it's just ballast today. Probably why most cruisers only have 2 to 4 of the 8 cells loaded.
nah, nah, nah, Byron, you are doing this wrong way... first of all you should bet targetting data from E-2, and not even break radar horizon with BUFFs... RED doesnt have navala AWACS, hence no way it is going to see let alone shoot BUFFs. And everything counts in numbers, send 20 of them fully loaded (12 poons per bird) and we are talking business.
PapaBravo's advice was to get your sealegs on a minesweeper in the North Atlantic.
Was never a problem submerged!
submerged subs also have no EMP problems onboard !
(until they come up and try to communicate with burned out satellites.)
Thanks for the reminder, Byron. I think I know what I will be playing tomorrow. That's if I don't set it up tonight.
Byron,
I've done some pretty good seas on a couple of FFGs that live in your back yard (36 and 56). The fin stabs, though a bit temperamental on maintenance, make a HUGE difference. Makes the ship ride "snappier" but when you're in seas and they trip off line, you'll put the SVTT's underwater in what would otherwise be not such a bad ride with fin stabs online.
is the ELF still active? or the eco-freaks have forced to clos it to stop "EM polution"? :-P
Kola2, the scenario from hell, since it's what would have happened had the balloon gone up and Lehman had gotten his way. BTW, I gave it two carriers...Since I figured one would have been sunk getting past the GUIK gap.
Have fun, I figured that was my best gift to Harpoon, not the 12 years as owner of the mailing list :)
<span>Was never a problem submerged!</span>
<span></span>
<span>Uh-huh...But we all know those sea condtions leave you as deaf and blind as Helen Keller too.</span>
<span></span>
<span>And all you can do is come up and take a look to get a clue.</span>
<span></span>
<span>During Ocean Venture-81, a Soviet sub variouisly reported as a Charlie or the prototype Oscar came up astern of the FID in some of the worst of the conditions...And promptly broached for God and everybody to see.</span>
That ocean is as bad as the Bungo Straits. Down scope.
I dun feel good.
Oh come on. This only proves that the Ruskis have no Storm Avoiding Software.
All you need is TSCE!...
I hears it has a whiz bang! Moses button that you can hit that will part any or all seas....
Byron, this is JPGR. How ya doin'? :)
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