Tuesday, April 27, 2010

LCS: small, nimble and stealthy!

Notsomuch.



I can hardly see her compared to those monster FF(not-so-Gs)!

PS: Don't make a comment about angle and distance - that is Mayport - the distance is very small - especially when you consider the ranges from shore we are talking about in littoral combat.


Hat tip The Cabal.

54 comments:

Alo said...

At what distance from shore would an LCS skipper engage targets?  I'm a retired USCG DWO, so I'm not up to speed on Navy littoral combat doctrine, but from my time on buoy tenders I'm familiar with the ins and outs of maneuvering close to stuff that most ships try hard to avoid.

MR T's Haircut said...

HAHA  I PITY THE FOOL!  SUCKAS!

steve osc ret said...

Maybe we could deploy PHMs with them as escorts....Better weapons.

AO3 Ken said...

Both LCS's mount a 57mm turret on the bow.  BAE claims a 9 mile range, but that seems a bit optimistic to me.  I say slap a couple of old Harpoon 4-packs on her and load 'em up with some Harpoon SLAMERs. 

Couldn't hurt. :)

sid said...

Heck...It looks as big as the tender that used to berth there!

Wow. Mayport sure does look empty these days. When I was a kid, there used to be the DD's (I could tell the difference between a Gearing and a Sumner even then-geek that I was)  nested three deep at the delta piers, cruisers on the bravo peirs, and two carriers on the charlies.

But, while empty, it sure looks swell elegant with that AWESOME LCS shinin' its broad -stealthy?- stern out there....

xformed said...

Not sure with a 57mm "Main Battery."  I do know this:  I spotted our 76MM at the range and we were about 2NM off shore, with the helo flying as the observer.

In other words....close...really close...and...not deliveing a great weight of shot, but maybe some nice, short lived volume of fire.

xformed said...

Yeah....76mm and 4 harpoon tubes, and much less draft.

Anon said...

It's not but 250 yards to Charlie pier...and the 57mm could be at dead level elevation and put a round right through the pilot house of the Simpson...

Outlaw Mike said...

It's the one just to the left of the tree, right?

Steeljaw said...

Since our host lies to draw parallels with the aviation world (viz. speed and RA5C), let me toss this one out...
The B-2, F-22, even F-117 from certain aspects have a very low *visual* observable profile, but planform -- not so (but there are RCS reduction/control factors in those views as well)  That's why of the three, only one, the F-22, sports something other than black paint and has a sporting chance in daylight hours against an opponent operating on visual acquisition.  I think a parallel could be drawn here.  Note the maritime equivalent of the F-117's faceting on the (admittedly broad) beam and stern directing radar reflections either up or down to the sea surface.
That said, when acquisition in the littoral can be accomplished with the Mk1Mod0 eyeball (can someone say "Hanit"?  Thank you), something else must be done beyond the elcetromagnetic spectrum.  How about a new form of the WWII "dazzle" paint scheme? brand-X seems to think so...
w/r, SJS

cdrsalamander said...

Your other left.

Outlaw Mike said...

Hey CDR, what are they constructing there to the right of the tree? Is that an oil rig?

ewok40k said...

a new meaning of too big to fail?

leesea said...

One more essential element which is missing it the secondary guns dual 30mm or better yet four Mk28 Mod 2 guns?

The LCS will never be in close like PC, PHM, PG, PTF, PCF, LCS(L), PT and ALL the prior real littoral warships have!

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Is it true that starting with the LCS 3, with the reopening of the B.J. Moose Mining and Manufacturing, (better known as 3M),upsadasium mine in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, that LCSes will mount turrets made of upsadasium, allowing the carrying of 16"/50 MK7 guns from the spares made for the IOWAs and MONTANAs?  With an autoloader replacing the in turret crew, and allowing the gun to fire full auto, the LCS will truly be transformational. 

LT B said...

I like the dazzle paint scheme. 

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

The blasted thing is big enough for the MK-28 5"/38 twin.

Master AssClown said...

If that sleek monster was any bigger.... It looks about as sleek as the Empire State Building. It is good to see that the taxpayers are getting their money's worth with this spry little wave glider. How drunk do you have to get the gatekeepers to get this stuff approved?

MAC  

DoesNotMatter said...

Obviously the LCS relies on the visual stealth of being mistaken for a majestic mountain, like the Matterhorn.

The Cabal said...

Actually it's the shadowing and morning light that makes it look that way. It's sort of an ugly haze gray that just looks dirty. Could be worse, it could just be bare aluminum. Speaking of which, when she was berthed at Bravo pier a few weeks back, there's something in the house side up high that really reflects sunlight. It was almost like sun reflecting off glass. Real stealthy...NOT!

Anonymous said...

12 of those barrels were cut up for scrap on the closure of LBNSY. one went to the san pedro marine meuseum and one went to 29 palms suppposedly for bomb testing.

C

leesea said...

sorry typo Mk38 Mod 2 is what I meant

Anonymous said...

can the 57 mm depress enough to do any serious work against gunboats that have managed to get in within a half mile of the hull, i know that they probably have 25mm and 50 cal on board but a smaller boat  could get in and start shoooting right through the ship.

i see a scenario of smaller gun boats basically surrounding the ship and the lcs not being able to get up to speed being caught between a hostile shore and a bunch of really small boys and looking like a potatoe strainer in short order.

C

leesea said...

what we all missed is that somewhere along the way, the LCS became the ocean escort du jor!  LOL  How would you like scooting around a CVN in one of those and trying to conduct ASW ops?  wishfull thinking?

Anonymous said...

as i remember there was an occasion during wwii where a german sub surfaced right along side of one of the subchasers and proceeded to shoot holes right through the ship with the deck gun, pretty much right under the bridge. that crew was reduced to throwing potatoes at the deck gun crew and managed to drive them off the gun with thompsons.

during nam one of the de's was dispatched to recover a civilian ship and even though they had a 5" 38 single mount the generator that provided power was ooc and they took that ship by boarding and force of arms.

the lcs program has produced race horses. they really need small and nasty burros for littoral work.

the damdest thing is that burros could be drawn up and built quite rapidly. just take something that worked really good in the past and equip it with not to modern weapons that actually work in that world.

C

Anonymous said...

maybe get out the ashviile plans.

C

mrguest said...

Does this count as nimble?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQn1rSBiin0

SJBill said...

Commanded by an O-5 or O-6? Looks impressive, for sure!
If she were intended to routinely go into harm's way, the CO would be an O-3 or O-4, wouldn't it?

William Powell said...

I spent years working in many different littorals on REAL small combatants.  Most places in the littorals you can't find a pier big enough to even park one of these monstrosities.  Until someone actually shows me a module onboard with something better, that 57mm popgun is it --  I've seen bigger guns on LCM-6s. 

Its not "Littoral"
Its not "Combat"
It is, however, a "Ship"

One out of three ain't bad, right?

Anonymous said...

Is that the one with the big assed transom on the right? Mighty big target for the shore batteries. Any pool started yet on the first sinking? Maybe it's all a fake to worry the Chinese somehow. I reckon it'll attract Chinese missiles and torpedoes galore.

lessea said...

Actually the trimaran has some inherent damaged stability characteristics over monohulls (though Sid may disagree?)  The skinny outboard hulls can take on water while not catastrophically affecting the others.  At least from underwater attacks.  Topisde being AL is a different set of calculatied risks.

sid said...

Lets see its riding characterisitics alongside in a seastate greater than one....

And please spare us the pablum about operating in the littorals.

That carrier won't be there.

sid said...

Fully agree lessea.

(see! it can happen!) ;)

However, a damaged tri wallowing in a running sea is no place to be.

The surprisingly poor riding characteristics of this particular design at slow speeds has already been remarked upon.

And we also know that as currently built, shock less than the minimum expected to affect a warship will render this ship inoperable.

So...gotta ask...

How will this ship fare as a frigate style escort at normal PIM speeds?

Again, the very high speed design elements constrict its overall utility.

Anonymous said...

We still have some at Dahlgren laying around...rusting.

lessea said...

sid though I have not seen them a friend who is an HSV engineer has the results from damaged stabiity tests on multi-hulls, so I have to go with his analysis.  What happens is the whole structure just emerses further than before.  I dis see results from SWATH d/s tests and its remarkable how well that type held up.

I don't think the seakeeping is any worse just different.  The Newport LST I served on rolled miserably in quatering to beam seas due to its relatively flat bottom.

I think the story is not yet know as to a tri's formation manuervering?  Remember that its just lately thet the Navy brass pointed the LCS out as an ocean escort.  Some have said the LCS will not be using its high speed as much.  Hopefully they tested that during OT&E?  But no results posted that I have seen.  Just anecdotes by crew and riders about transits.

ShawnP said...

Mayport..........Navigation so easy a QM can do it.

pat said...

So your air force had the B-52 called the Big Ugly Fat F*c*er (sub u and k for those of gentle sensiblities (PC))- just what the H will you call this ?  Big Aluminium Tall Target Littorialy Exposed?  (BATTLE).
When sunk , "gosh we lost the battle but not the war."

Outlaw Mike said...

Always thought that acronym stood for Big Ugly Fat Fella.

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Or maybe an LCS, a real LCS.  Landing Craft Support. 

ewok40k said...

Dutch have started lately using landing crafts off Somalia to hunt pirates... Eagle one provides the details.
Original LCS back to the future?

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Barco Sin Vela II said...

I bet Huckins could make something more awesome for a couple mil apiece, faster, more maneuverable and most importantly; Fun.

On Lakeshore Ave, Home of the Fairform Flyer.

Spade said...

Only if your mom is around.

C-dore 14 said...

Or if you were being quoted in the WaPo.

C-dore 14 said...

lessea, Re: formation steaming, that's why they invented the sector screen. ;)

sid said...

I remember getting just beat to death in a sector screen following the CV around in a meltemi just north of Crete.

The carrier only needed to point her nose in the wind and make 3 knots or so for more than enough wind across the deck. Meanwhile, us small boys were just eaten alive trying maintain station while on Fox Corpen.

C-dore 14 said...

sid. Maybe the OOD needed to be more creative in his patrol plan.  ;)   Of course I was always 20-30 NM away from the CV in TAPA so...

sid said...

I remember we were trying everything.

Problem was we'd run out of the sector sides.

Memorably miserable day...

Alo said...

So if I'm Mohammed Abdul al Whackadoodle driving down the coast with my buddies in our technicals, and the USS Oprah's stealthily avoiding radar a mile or two offshore, what's to stop my buddies and me from volley firing a bunch of RPGs or recoilless rifle rounds into it?  Further, if this thing's as undermanned as I've heard, won't my buddies and I knock her for a loop for very little money?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Ahhh, no, no!  Nothing like that!  The LCS is impervious to weapons.  So please don't try.

leesea said...

ahh no, the LCS will never get close enogh to shore for guns or missiles you mention to be successful (or so the Navy hopes!)

Now you did not mention C-701/4s or C-802 which could very well put a big hurting on an LCS not so close to shore (as it could on most warships~).

Alo said...

TV guided like the Maverick?

ewok40k said...

or, God forbid they managed to move cold war era T-55 into hidden firing position with 100mm main gun and pretty much impervious to 57mm 
or they bought a dozen AT-3 Saggers (aka Malutka) of the Yom Kippur fame

C-dore 14 said...

Ewok, Back in the day, the folks of the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen used to place T-55s along their side of the Bab al Mandeb for a little "choke point control".  The first couple of times our FF went in and out of the Red Sea we did so at General Quarters.