UPDATE & BUMP: see bottom of post for latest developments.
This is sad.
Let's set the scene. You have a very good urinalysis program - one of the best in the Navy. You have to, you are in charge one of the most high-profile commands in the Navy; all eyes are on you. You can't afford to have drug problems or run any of your programs short of perfect.
After the last round of tests, you have a junior Sailor who pops positive for marijuana ... very strong pop. All the paperwork and proceedures are perfect, and you have been in the Navy long enough to know MILPERSMAN 1910-146 like you know your own Social Security Number.
Then you see the name; oh, him. Another administrative burden.
This isn't the first time this guy has been in trouble either; not drugs per se, but his counseling jacket is thick and highlighted, in a fashion - no one is really defending this guy either.
As things progress further and excuses are tried - inconsistencies come up even there. The pattern repeats; problem Sailor, air-tight urinalysis, pop positive for the evil weed, and finally no one can keep their story straight.
Don't be silly - this is exactly the kind of Sailor this Navy needs ... as a matter of fact - this man is officer material! You're the man in Command, you know quality and leadership potential when you see it; you're keeping him!
No, this isn't a parallel universe, this is the United States Naval Academy.
One report is a rumor. Three reports a trend. When I get above a half-dozen reports and phone calls - well, that is a story. It is especially a story when all of my primary sources are not bitter, angry, anti-Annapolis types. No; to an individual these are people who deeply love the Navy and USNA. They are sad, frustrated, and feel that their institution is once again selling its soul for superficial reasons. For reasons that make no sense to them, honor and integrity is being sold for a silly game. Yes, my friends - this also has to do with football.
In the Potempkin Color Guard fiasco, we saw a loved institution twist itself into knots to satisfy a corrosive, self-loathing, and debunked racialist theory known as Diversity. I am afraid that we now have an institution that has sacrificed itself for something even more misguided - a game. A sport.
Though I know the name of the individual in question - I am not going to mention it here or some of the details as they aren't the important part of the story, right now.
In the Potempkin Color Guard fiasco, we saw a loved institution twist itself into knots to satisfy a corrosive, self-loathing, and debunked racialist theory known as Diversity. I am afraid that we now have an institution that has sacrificed itself for something even more misguided - a game. A sport.
Though I know the name of the individual in question - I am not going to mention it here or some of the details as they aren't the important part of the story, right now.
This story is much larger than one man - the United States Naval Academy deserves better than this - sure successful football brings in money, but you cannot buy back your honor through football. It is Honor, Courage, and Commitment - not Fudge, Courage, and Bowl Games.
Executive Summary: A USNA football player popped positive for marijuana post season - but the act of smoking pot took place "in season." Though there are inconsistencies in the stories that explained "why" he smoked pot - there was never a question that he did - in the end the story is that he was handed a cigar that was stuffed with marijuana, he smoked it with vigor, and had no idea there was marijuana in it. Ahem. An official statement was given to that effect by another party. The Sup bought the story decided to let him stay.
Executive Summary: A USNA football player popped positive for marijuana post season - but the act of smoking pot took place "in season." Though there are inconsistencies in the stories that explained "why" he smoked pot - there was never a question that he did - in the end the story is that he was handed a cigar that was stuffed with marijuana, he smoked it with vigor, and had no idea there was marijuana in it. Ahem. An official statement was given to that effect by another party. The Sup bought the story decided to let him stay.
Let's be blunt here (pun intended). I didn't fall of a turnip truck and neither did any of you. First of all, everyone and their mother knows that a cigar stuffed with marijuana is very popular and is known as a blunt. No one "accidently" smokes a blunt. You smell it, you taste it - and you sure do feel it. Pot now days is not 1970s skunkweed. No. Not even close. If someone tells you he did not know it was pot the minute it was lit - not to mention after taking may long, deep breaths and holding (which you don't with cigars there natch) that is needed to pop positive - then that someone is probably lying to you.
Then again, we know that - don't we?
I remember what it was like in the '80s - I remember the posters, "Not on my watch; Not on my ship; Not in my Navy". I have seen many a Sailor shown the door with a Big Chicken Dinner. I have seen successful and unsuccessful excuses for popping positive - one rather pornographic. In the end though, "no tolerance" had sticking power and I never saw a case of special consideration for any individual who popped positive - officer or enlisted.
Would this have happened if we didn't have an important member of the football team? I doubt it, but who knows. It would be interesting though to see the results of positive urinalysis cases over the last, say, five years to see what exceptions have been made.
I think the smart money is that we have another case of throwing away hard earned integrity to play football at a level a Service Academy has no reason playing.
Losing the bubble. Lost lock. Adrift - you call it what you want; but this just plain smells wrong (pun intended again).
A Commanding Officer, rightly, has a wide latitude in making decisions. Only he knows the reasons that he makes them. That doesn't mean we have to agree with him or his justification.
This whole thing is sad. The United States Naval Academy deserves better than this. Again, what example does this set for the future leaders of the Navy and Marine Corps?
That question deserves an answer.
UPDATE: Hey, look at the kids now days with all their facebooktwitterybloggy thingies going on!
UPDATE: Hey, look at the kids now days with all their facebooktwitterybloggy thingies going on!
Just reinforces what I tell people any time I get a chance - it isn't the young who are the problem.
UPDATE II - Electric Boogaloo: Philip Ewing @ NavyTimes has picked up the story. (Update to original here)
UPDATE III - Perfect Storm: Daniel de Vise at the Washington Post has picked up the story as well.
UPDATE IV - Set Condition Zebra: Things have become very interesting over the last 24-hrs and I encourage everyone to follow comment as there is some very good primary sources out there. First of all, I want everyone to get a peek at how business is sometimes done inside the lifelines at Annapolis.
You can find a link to the facebook page in question in a previous update. Just a little detail here; the page was started by a civilian and, in a fashion, supports a Navy policy - i.e. zero tolerance for drug abuse. The owner of the page has now made it private - so the conversation - some support zero tolerance, some do not; some support the USNA Admin, some do not - goes on, except now it has gone underground. Way to make it worse fellas.
I ran the above by a JAG friend - and from that exchange of emails comes some sound advice and some caution.
UPDATE II - Electric Boogaloo: Philip Ewing @ NavyTimes has picked up the story. (Update to original here)
UPDATE III - Perfect Storm: Daniel de Vise at the Washington Post has picked up the story as well.
UPDATE IV - Set Condition Zebra: Things have become very interesting over the last 24-hrs and I encourage everyone to follow comment as there is some very good primary sources out there. First of all, I want everyone to get a peek at how business is sometimes done inside the lifelines at Annapolis.
--Forwarded Message Attachment--Very interesting habits we are teaching the future officers in the military of a Representitive Republic.
From: [REDACTED]@usna.edu
Subject: Please Read
To: co[REDACTED]@usna.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 [REDACTED]
[REDACTED],
-----BODY OF EMAIL REDACTED ON A TEMP BASIS BY REQ----
Very Respectfully,
[REDACTED]
MIDN USN
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: [REDACTED]@usna.edu
Subject: IMPORTANT
To: co[REDACTED]@usna.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 [REDACTED]
[REDACTED],
Do not join the facebook group "Zero Tolerance=Zero Exceptions" or any other similar group.
This is coming down from the highest echelon. There will be severe consequences for disobedience.
Thanks,
[REDACTED]
You can find a link to the facebook page in question in a previous update. Just a little detail here; the page was started by a civilian and, in a fashion, supports a Navy policy - i.e. zero tolerance for drug abuse. The owner of the page has now made it private - so the conversation - some support zero tolerance, some do not; some support the USNA Admin, some do not - goes on, except now it has gone underground. Way to make it worse fellas.
I ran the above by a JAG friend - and from that exchange of emails comes some sound advice and some caution.
... the Academy may be right on this. While no particular officers are named, there's some pretty harsh criticism of the university administration which could be construed as an open condemnation of a senior officer, which is a violation of the UCMJ.This isn't black and white, and is a very gray area. Like I have advised in a few emails - stick to informal and if needed formal grevience proceedures. Keep your nose clean and your eye on the goal - graduate. If you have some venom that gets you near a gray area, feed it to civilian friends & family, or vent to some dorky blogger.
I'd advise the MIDs to tread carefully here.
For the MIDN, all anyone will care about in the end is that you have a degree and a commission - all else is vanity. Make sure you can look yourself in the mirror every AM with your honor intact, and keep clear of UCMJ and/or regulations problems. If you find yourself in a gray area - there are JAGs there that will help you find out where the lines are before you cross them. If you need a POC there for a good one, email me. The overwhelming majority, as close to total as you can get to an imperfect human institution, of the uniformed and civilian staff at Annapolis is on your side and wants you to succeed so the Navy and the nation it serves can succeed. Remember that.
Part of the problem is that there are some logic disconnects coming at the MIDN. There of course is the obvious one of what is being said vs. is being done, and different "classes" of MIDN being treated differently - but there are messaging problems. For example, this came out in DEC09 - I like it;
Part of the problem is that there are some logic disconnects coming at the MIDN. There of course is the obvious one of what is being said vs. is being done, and different "classes" of MIDN being treated differently - but there are messaging problems. For example, this came out in DEC09 - I like it;
Subj: Naval Academy News Media Policy
The following information is provided to clarify the Naval Academy’s policy regarding interaction with news media.
Like the Navy and Marine Corps, the Naval Academy does not forbid anyone from speaking with news media. The Naval Academy’s public affairs office requests to be notified when midshipmen, faculty or staff are contacted by news media in order to provide assistance and advice. This assistance and advice is particularly important for individuals who do not routinely interact with media, do not wish to respond to media, or may lack perspective on issues of potential media interest.
In most situations, individuals are free to address news media - either initiating or returning contact with reporters - and can do so without approval from their chain of command. However, there are specific situations, such as an ongoing official investigation or judicial proceeding and issues involving classified information, where Navy and Marine Corps policy specifically addresses limits of public comment. It is imperative during such situations to obtain the assistance of the public affairs office when contacted by reporters.What is Facebook? Social media? New Media? Personal journal? Personal correspondence? Yes to all the above. That is why this is a gray area. If you canx facebook, can you do the same for subscriptions and online registration for NYT, WaPo, and multiple forums and, ahem, blogs out there? Do you restrict who they can and cannot email to? What about being a member of the NRA, NOW, or the Sierra Club? What about USNI? Do we punish them for being members of organizations that have authors who question policy? Sure we draw lines, at hate groups for instance, but be careful that your line is thick, bright, and straight. Crooked and selectively sketchy only breeds cynicism.
Naval Academy personnel who interact with media should also realize that their public comments can sometimes be construed - either intentionally or unintentionally - to represent the Navy or Naval Academy. It is important when interacting with media in an unofficial capacity to ensure that all opinions expressed are understood to be personal and do not necessarily represent the views of the Navy or the Academy.
Midshipmen, faculty or staff are free to interact with news media, but are strongly encouraged to contact the public affairs office prior to doing so. Additionally, Naval Academy personnel who do not wish to engage with media can refer all media requests to the public affairs office. As always, any questions concerning this policy or any news media related issues should be referred to the public affairs office at X2292 or pao@usna.edu.
I think the folks at USNA are making this much worse trying to control the story ... again.
UPDATE V - Electric Glide: The local paper is on the hunt too.
UPDATE VI - Fiasco Edition: Thomas E. Ricks smells it as well.
UPDATE VII - Flash Gear: Front page of the Washington Post News Section.
UPDATE VIII - Defilade fire: URR has a higher brain function piece over at USNIBlog.
UPDATE IX - Load canister: The AP picked up Daniel de Vise's WaPo bit.
UPDATE V - Electric Glide: The local paper is on the hunt too.
UPDATE VI - Fiasco Edition: Thomas E. Ricks smells it as well.
UPDATE VII - Flash Gear: Front page of the Washington Post News Section.
UPDATE VIII - Defilade fire: URR has a higher brain function piece over at USNIBlog.
UPDATE IX - Load canister: The AP picked up Daniel de Vise's WaPo bit.
479 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 479 Newer› Newest»<span>Right after the piss tests started in '82, a Lt. (Citadel grad, and generally Good Guy) onboard had a sample that went through the second test because the initial one was inconclusive for some reason. It came back clean, but as most were ignorant of how urinalisys worked in those days, the rumour spread like wildfire that he had been popped.
From then on, he caught some serious grief from a bunch of folks. It was to the point that he found it hard to get things done, and I'm not sure it didn't cost him when it came FITREP time.
Hence my -ignored- warnings to nav.
So, I will opine that...IF...our stonner football hee-roe makes it to the fleet, it is doubtful that it will eventually pan out that the good VADM did him any favors....</span>
US Navy...
Global Force For Feelin' GOOD!
The kernel that propels the current defense policy can be found here....
Talk about CURRY-ing favor.
Solve that riddle.
<span>Talk about confirming suspicions... Well, the world must be going to shit, if this kid is allowed to continue at the USNA. Worthless individual. Talented athlete, but completely devoid of self-critical analysis on a professional level. Worse yet, when counseled he only attempts to regurgitate what he thinks the counselor wants to hear. Absolute inability (or care) to learn from past mistakes (professionally speaking). Will definitely causesignificant damage to friendly personnel and equipment, if allowed to serve in the Fleet due to his apathy. I would not want to serve with, under, or over him in any capacity in the Operating Forces/FMF. Utterly devoid of a sense of duty or what self-sacrifice and leadership are. God willing a good SNCO will deal with this cat... My worst fears have been confirmed...</span>
Please reference my post above... He'll be lucky to make it out of the USNA at this point. With nearly every Company Officer/SEL and Dant's Staff looking while he takes a piss. When he screws up again... (When because given his record, he will screw up again) he'll go down, hard. If he does, I magine similar action taken against (or rather towards him) as Lamar Owens' accuser. Multiple Skipper's refused to accept her orders because of her deceptions and lack of character...
The students are the masters...
Mo' 'bout our Cheech, in his own words: http://www.myspace.com/datyung28
<span>Navy Joe... no none of us have a clue... we have lived our lives on shore duty..</span>
This shouldn't even be a topic of discussion.. imagine, we have ships at sea and Sailors who need Division Officers. Is he up to it? NO. Jettison him.
Serving our nation is not a RIGHT.. too many paid in blood and sacrifice to cheapen it with this HIGH SCHOOL F**@** DRAMA!!!
Stupid Stoned Squid Trick #2:
Blowing up the last twt to be in 3000 miles for the ULQ-6....
The screen shots from myspace tell it all - by the way he doesn't admit to drugs but he does admit to shoplifting. Nice. Real nice.
And his obvious command of the English language...can wait to see an ALCOM with that in it.
Good Grief! How many misspellings can I make in one paragraph?
See my comment and screen shots in the comment below.
But he has learned something. He's learned that if you're a good athlete and can talk a good game that the system will keep giving you second chances if you manipulate it correctly.
Wish one of you guys in the know could explain what it is about this guy that the Supe thinks warrants these repeated second chances.
Good idea to post the screenshots. I notice that under "Details" he says he doesn't drink or smoke, but under "Blurbs" he says he's smoked cigars (HA!) and has drunk alcohol in the last month ("Ell yuh"). And OBTW, "maybe lol" he's stolen something. My five-year-old lies better than he does. But the Supe's buyin' it, man. The Supe's buyin' it all.
Screen shots carry an nice DATE with them...I like this one as well:
In the past month have you Stolen Anything:maybe lol
Haha. really funny. not.
His profile also says he's 20 years old... Drink? Really? On a public profile? Dude needs to fill out an I.D. Ten Tango form...
Ref: Navy-Ohio State game... 80 rushing yards against Big Ten defense in a single play.
I think you mean stripers and not strippers. :) Then again, the Food LCDR was a prostitute, so maybe there are strippers in the Brigade.
I never knew what happened to her. I had hoped she not get out of their w/o the Fleet knowing her deeds.
Word on the Street is that a Flag Officer had to order one of the CO's to accept her orders... although, it was supposedly a shore command. From my understanding she didn't even have her OOD letter, let alone her pin... Looks like a quick 5 and dive (or plunge) to me.
We tried to kick this kid out before without any success....
Wonder how long before the excuse of the "unknown blunt" shows up at mast? based on prior experience, I'd bet within the next week. A fine example the Supe and the academy are setting for our enlisted folks, and for the officers who do the right thing, even when no one is looking.
I've processed out a number of GOOD sailors over the years. Heard all kinds of excuses. Best one "A jamaican friend got married and I ate salmon with herbs on top, a lot of salmon". 15 year Petty Officer. My flight surgeon said that he should have been s^*&ing grass for a week based on THC level. Kicked him out without regret, although he was one of the best performers in my department. 3 months later ran into him at Best Buy. Asked if he's still eating "salmon". he laughed and said yes.
I've never been a mid, but I've been both enlisted and officer. The academy, mids and faculty, shouldn't stand this egregious example of double standards. As a matter of fact, the NAVY shouldn't stand this.
Elll Nah..... um I mean ELL YAH.... MOS DEF.... WTTF??????
Of African Decent... Wth does that mean?
Hey he smoked "Cigars" in the last week... and I ate a "brownie"....
It means he's diverse.
Why, yes it would!
Like, hey Skipper!
Perfect ... he (or someone else) is logged-in to his myspace page right now. Wonder if he'll take it down. Time to archive ...
Already done.
Screen shots. Google way back machine
:) Knew you were good.
211! A new world's record?
How about his references towards women? Not a role model there,either.
Yep.
BTW - we shouldn't focus too much on the MIDN in question - he isn't the problem macro - he is a symptom.
True...
Fowler's decision-making process is the real issue. The MIDN has been excused...multiple times.
Of course the MIDN will try to excuse himself...it's been working for him...he's treated like a D1 player above the law...not a service academy furture Sailor or Marine
The core problem is that leadership allows this to happen...and helps foster deception and complacence.
<span>There are rumors that any midn who joined the facebook group "Zero Tolerance = Zero Exception" will face consequences from the top.</span>
Really, how bad can these "consequences" be? I mean, if you can smoke a blunt, admit to LOLstealing something, have previous honor violations and spell worse than a...., a,..... (can't really think of anyone that spells worse than he does) and not suffer any consequences of consequence? So, I'd think the Facebook page members should be safe. Well, Unless they're not members of a protected diversity group or play D1 sports. Then, they're SCREWED.
I like that what he aspires is to be a pro football player. I, maybe in pure naivety, thought that people went to USNA to do something silly like, oh I don't know, be an officer in the United States Navy or Marine Corps!
Yea, good luck with that. I have a couple of JAG officers who would love to chew on that order a bit.
That jibber-jabber is making my head hurt!!! PAIN!!!!
At least the fool is honest
...or on a reefer...
Really? Let em try it...
Was going to congratulate you on a post going viral, then I remembered that the two "hyperviral" posts here were both atributable to bad leadership and a lack of honor on the part of the Academy leadership...
Not a happy ocassion.
I'd rather congratulate you on a post about how Byron throttled someone in a bar in Jax beach because they said LCS is the best, most combat capable, survivable, best looking and the FASTEST ship EVER....
Bingo. Like the comments at 2128:07. Right on the money. Symptom of the disease.
Thanks ... but I agree. I don't actually like these posts - but light and fresh air are the best way to fix a problem.
Can anyone comment intelligently as to the legitimacy behind the claim that the USNA Alumni Association threatened to pull funding if he was not retained?
Also, is the MIDN in question currently on restriction? All sources I have exhausted seem to think he is not.
Interesting, it doesn't appear that anyone has commented on how (former) MIDN X helped out his buddy by passing him the grass in the first place. MIDN X certainly knew he was setting up his "buddy" for trouble.
Second item is a general comment on MIDN Y's common sense/commitment to service. Why was he still hanging with an obvious bad influence in the flushed MIDN X? The company you keep does have an influence.
he is not currently on restriction. he is being "remediated" instead
this is the truth. word is being passed from the brigade stripers down to the companys.
The administration is circling the wagons again (as they did during the color guard affair). At morning quarters this morning, we had a 5 minute talk to by our Senior Chief who informed us it was not our place to question or talk about the decision of a 3 star admiral who "has earned the right not to be questioned". Hopefully the midshipmen/alums/civilians will be heard, because aside from a few seriously confused individuals (nav), everyone knows this is ridiculous. As someone who wanted to come to the Academy cause I thought it would make me into the best possible officer, the last few months have been seriously disheartening.
Thank you for confiming that those like nav are seriously confused. I was fearful that the Rempt-Fowler age had so tarnished standards and expectations at USNA.
What kind of &*((* up crap is being taught there? A Senior Chief instructs Mids that a 3 star shouldn't be questioned? Because he earned it? Like Sestak did? So no 3 star, 4 stars or others have never been wrong? Are you kidding me? So then all they need is yes men?
Please, for the love of JPJ, don't listen to him. No ONE has the right to not be questioned when their decisions are not right, or not consistent with the regulations. Look up UCMJ 112a as a starter. But I'm not saying anything you guys don't know. You're living it, and for that I'm sincerely sorry. That is not the core values I want instilled in the next generations of leaders. Listen to your gut, and look up integrity. Obviously, the ones in charge on the Severn and those in the Puzzle palace have forgotten what it means, and that others have paid for it in blood. This is pure Bull Caca
Just got the e-mail that we are not supposed to join any groups about this on facebook...Got to love USNA..."<span>If you are in a facebook group that refers to the retention of a Midshipman who tested positive for marijuana, you need to leave it immediately." </span>
Heads up to you MIDN reading- word has been sent down to leave the Zero Tolerance=Zero Exceptions fb page as "military personel are not allowed to place public remarks on military policy...." The threat of "FRY" has been issued. Be alert, use discretion, but take no prisoners.
Then CDRSalamander should be thanked for providing us with a "fry-free" zone....take no prisoners indeed, keep fighting the good fight!
not suggesting anything, but if someone knows what an anonymizer is, and CDR Phibians address, maybe a copy could be provided? And who bottomlined it? Can they also please advise ADM Harvey, Stavridis et al, that they are not allowed to comment on military policy on the web..., just can't remember the rule, but hey, they don't apply the rules do they?
has the USNA officials directing this policy looked at the culprits facebook page? Is that how they want to be represented? is that the approved Facebook presence, but taking advantage of the 1st ammendment, taking a stance for something you believe in, well, thats contrary to the Academy values. Boy, I didn't go to school there but my blood is boiling, cause it's also my Navy. Can't imagine how you alumni and current mids feel.
Is it me or does REMPT remind you of Claudius ?
Maybe 24 will be good at target recognition...
2.c... tell them to go f**( themselves...
Sounds like the stripers are more interested in looking pretty by having a few extra stripes on their uniforms rather than standing up and doing the right thing. When will any of them resign their billet?
Hey, MTH, I resemble that remark? Or are you implying that Rempt is somehow infirm, does not suffer those who disagree with him and ends up being poisoned (metaphoricaly maybe?)?
Fellow MIDN, before the Administration tries to dampen our anger at the injustice (we should be expecting the Dant at the anchor soon, no doubt), we need to do something. I am game! But the Brigade must organize something large scale, ie, stripers stepping down, Midn-led open forums, multitudes of letters sent up the chain of command, etc. It needs to happen soon before they threaten the juice out of the masses. We are really the only ones that keep this place what it is, thus we are the only ones that can uphold the standards and demand that they are met.
But if you are a MIDN who has a myspce page suggesting you were shoplifting and confirming you were drinking, it's okay?
Wow.
Last time I checked the US Constitution applied to the US Navy, the US Naval Academy, and yes, even football players at the US Naval Academy. Since the penalty of expulsion is so severe, it is tantamount to a criminal penalty. As such, there is a presumption of innocence. According to what little facts that are available, the accused said he did not know he was smoking dope. Okay, is this claim reasonable under the circumstances? I would not know a blunt if I saw one. I would assume it were a cigar from its looks. Could I smell the difference? I don't know. Would the cigar tobacco cancel the smell of the pot? I would assume smoking a cigar is legal. So if I smoked it assuming it were a cigar, should I be held accountable? I assume that even the Military Code of Justice requires scienter. So before everyone gets the tar, feathers and rail out, for both mid, the sup,and the alumni association as Jack Webb used to say on Dragnet, "just the facts sir" So far, I have not heard anything that would refute the mid's claim that he did not know the cigar was loaded. So where are the facts to refute his claim?
too soon to tell. We will have to wait and see what comes of this, whatever the result it should prove to be very (for lack of a better word) interesting.
Strippers stepping down? I doubt it. They only care about themselves. They're even targeting people on facebook and listing names.
<span>"The administration is circling the wagons again (as they did during the color guard affair). At morning quarters this morning, we had a 5 minute talk to by our Senior Chief who informed us it was not our place to question or talk about the decision of a 3 star admiral who "has earned the right not to be questioned". "</span>
<span></span>
<span>wow...I thought a 3 star had earned the right to his rank by being courageous enough to pose and answer questions, face challenges and answer honestly. </span>
<span></span>
<span>No offense to the Senior Chief. He is carrying out orders. SeThat is what he does and he is good at it.</span>
<span></span><span></span><span></span>
<span>Oh sorry, I guess I thought I was hearing a message relayed from real leadership... GEN PACE, CONWAY, MATTIS or ADM STAVRIDIS or HARVEY</span>
For the strippers, do you remember that this institution is suppose to "...reinforce midshipmen’s ability to discern between right and wrong and to reason through right vs. right decisions, while stressing the obligations they have as leaders to develop the moral courage to do what is right even at great personal risk. These goals are embedded in the commissioned officer’s role as a Leader of Character, trained and educated to serve as Warrior, Servant of the Nation, and a Standard Bearer of the Naval Profession." -from 1/C Capstone Seminars
SOURCE: http://www.usna.edu/ethics/capstone/index.htm
Heh! Navy "breaking" News...What's the score now? Phib 2, Dant ZERO.
Well said!
<p><span><span><span>MIDN GISH – While I am heartened by your call to your fellow midn for substantive action from within the Brigade, I would caution you to do so within the confines of proper military order and discipline.<span> </span>Trust me, as an alumnus, I am (and have been) furious at the complete degragation occurring at USNA. <span> </span>However, with respect to your suggestion that “the Brigade must organize something large scale, ie, stripers stepping down, Midn-led open forums, multitudes of letters sent up the chain of command, etc.”<span> </span>Consider the following:</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span> </span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Firstly, I would recommend against Midn-led open forums – it rings too much of mutiny (plus, USNA is not some liberal arts college where teach-ins are in vogue – thankfully).<span> </span>There are other viable options available.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span> </span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Definitely, having stripers resign their billets (which I already addressed in an earlier post) is the perfect leadership response that should be occurring. Though I recognize the egos oftentimes (though not always) go with strips. < continued in next post ></span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span>As for your suggestion of a multitude of letters sent up the chain of command, let me offer a real and proper military alternative – formally request mast.<span> </span>Navy Regs (articles 0820c and 1151.1) give all Navy and Marine Corps members the right to directly communicate grievance to their CO in person. <span> </span></span><span>Requesting mast includes both the right of the member to personally talk to the commander, normally in person, and the requirement that the commander consider the matter and personally respond to the member requesting mast.</span><span></span></span></span>
</p><p><span>Navy IG has an summary of info on requesting mast: </span><span>http://www.ig.navy.mil/Complaints/Complaints%20%20(Request%20Mast).htm</span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span><span>Forget the letter, if the outcry is as great as it is made to be, getting 100 midn to individually request mast with the Supe to air their grievance should be no problem. And the Administration would have to, at least, give the midn direct face time with the Supe. </span></span><span><span>Talk to a JAG at USNA and figure out the proper procedure to do it. Use their own rules against them.</span></span></p>
<span>Good luck. It is in your hands now at the Academy. Most of us here have little to no direct effect on what occurs on the Yard anymore. Go forth in do good things. Remember to keep your wits about you and keep the longview, even though there is a lot flashing about in your 'close distance.' If you stand for honor and integrity (and are willing to deal with the consequences of your decisions, both good and bad), you can never go wrong. Be true to the Core Values and the Mission Statement and the Honor Concept. Do that which is right. But do so professionally and without hostility. That will help to set the conditions for your success.</span>
I am not academy nor can I pretend to be, but resigning stripes of a school that is no longer a factor in the real world of the military...
um okay ... do it or not.... see what happens....... My Guess? End result? Still commissioned.....
Claudio,
you so eloquently put it!
I took out my oath as a commissioned officer....and yep...just as thought...no pledge to the "officers appointed over me"...but to uphold the constitution. We don't want a dumbed down officer corp who simply follows orders without thinking. It is those challenges from seniors and subordinates that can help keep officers standing in good water.
If Big Navy isn't going to provide some adult leadership for the Supe, it is time to get congress.
You really think a CO out in the fleet would allow you to join a Facebook page critical of some decision he made? If we're going to complain that the Supe isn't following the Fleet standard when it comes to drug abuse, we can hardly complain when he does follow the Fleet standard on disrespect. The inconsistency is the problem, but he's right about the Facebook page.
Good. It all boils down to trusting a sailor/officer coming to your command. Can you handle their poison and will they work well enough to hold to their oath. I guess a lot decided she was not worth the risk. I wonder what happened to my little lying mid.
From what I understand based on what I hear (so, taken with a grain of salt...but not too much doubt), the honor system is retaining MIDN with pretty substantial violations against it (some notable theft and cheating incidents), the process falls much more on companies that aren't necessarily making the right decisions. If there's any credence in Professor Fleming's well-publicized complaints, we're starting off with students who wouldn't have necessarily made the cut on their own. We're focused on diversity and fitreps, rather than product, and the leadership continues to make questionable decisions that undermine the quality of the men and women that graduate.
And although I thought that when I left Annapolis, I wouldn't dwell too much on the eventual outcome of the downward spiral (that I recognized as bottomless when I was there), it is pretty disillusioning to see these things happen.
On a separate (yet related) note, my tactic when showing up to my sea command was to not mention where I graduated from, and when necessary, refer to some generic "college" if I had some story or memory to tell. I thought I'd let people judge me by my actions and personality, rather than institution of higher learning. And you know what I got from people (mostly on the enlisted side, but sometimes officer) far more often than not after they found out where I went to school, after months and years of knowing and working with me? Surprise and a small sense of disbelief. I don't mean to sound smug like I was the world's best div-o, but they were pleasantly surprised that I could have come from USNA. I'm extremely proud of where I went to school when I go home, or am talking with extended family, etc. But I didn't create the impression that the fleet has. Guess what is certainly NOT changing by situations like this, exacerbated by the leadership there? That's right - they're certainly not helping the substandard impression held by those in the fleet.
Wow, only the third comment to the WaPo article and already the Kool-Aid drinkers are making potentially libelous comments about this blog. A perfect Diversity Thursday storm is on the horizon...
Above comment was mine.
OBTW, anyone hitting FB from inside usna.navy.mil or usna.edu is probably having their activities logged by now. Be careful.
Sounds like a great ethics quandry in those oh so popular classes.
Thanks for the hint. I went over there and spanked him a bit. Feel free to join in.
I know a lot of these stripers and I assure you that almost none of them will step down. The people who get picked to run the brigade are the ones who drink the most kool-aid and not the people who have the guts to do something self-sacrificial even for the good of the brigade.
Is there a reason it appears my comment (from around 0050 last night) was deleted? If I was in violation of some posting regulations, please let me know, I'm a bit confused here.
From a student at a similar Academy:
This story is spreading rapidly here as well, of course, and my classmates are equally as disgusted as my midn friends who have shared their opinions with me. We feel your pain, because there is no doubt that it could have just as easily happened here instead. Honestly, (and sadly), I wouldn't have been very surprised if it was this Academy.
Hopefully, this is at least a learning experience for some people, and the right actions somehow come out of this mess. The offense and the potential paths toward its resolution seem blatantly obvious to me.
I feel like this situation was bound to happen somewhere - it was just a matter of time.
So because this guy is an Admiral, he has earned the right to not be questioned by people of a lower rank about his questionable decisions? What about the CNO, doesn't he outrank this poor decision-maker? He's a graduate of the Academy - he should care.
Let me say this: If my kid went to a college that had an absolute policy, say like the Academy supposedly does about drugs, and she had to be fearful and vigilant because she wasn't a football player or a "set aside," and an exception was made to one of these policies for a football player or a "set aside," I'd be in the Dean's office demanding to know why everyone who wasn't a member of the chosen few, had to follow rules that were supposedly meant for everyone.
I'm outraged. The Academy's Commanding Officer can decide to enforce rules willy-nilly just because of his rank. That is not leadership. Is this a man who expects respect for making a bad decision then having the students cautioned to remove their names from a facebook page calling attention to this debacle? Spewing Navy policy, of course, because it can conveniently be applied to suit his purpose. Respect is earned. Respect can be lost.
Veritas, Smuckatelli, Prior-
I find it invigorating that you are so passionate about your Brigade and its leadership. However, I am disheartened that you do not have the testicular fortitude to post your names. I know if I had issues with the Brigade, I'd confront the leadership and not post on an anonymous forum.
It's okay though, I am willing to die for my country so that this wonderful action of free speech can continue!!
xoxo
Just a Bro
I've stayed out of this discussion, mostly because I'm old school, and no longer in the fleet.
However, I know a thing or two about leadeship, and the very first principle is "Leadership by Example". The CO seats the example, and everyone else down the chain of command takes their cue from that. If the CO is playinf "Cover his 6" on his own behalf, it's likely to be a less-than-pleasant work experience for all hands. It's especially worse if the CO is taking his own cue from an outside directorate. Say, for example, a modern Zampolit from the Directorate of Diversity.
Between the ongoing scandals at Annapolis, and trust me, these ARE scandals, the mind-numbing intereference from the Diversity Bullies, the lowering of standards in order to create an artificial "rainbow" in the fleet, and the constant political infighting between FO's and project managers interested MORE in post-Navy employment, the blueshirts are getting an eyeful, and it ain't pretty.
Forget about forcing unneeded uniform changes on the fleet. Forget about an almost 0% pay increase when trillions are given to politicians pet projects. Forget about lack of maintenance funds and "optimal" manning that exhausts crews and expendables, and lowers the combat edge the fleet once enjoyed. Forget about questionable ship acquisition and design, faulty welds on submarines, poor lube-oil filters or contamination issues.
The CNO has set the climate, and it's happening on HIS watch. The Superintendant at Annapolis, for at least three iterations to date, has dropped the ball by kowtowing to politics and outside influence, rather than concentrating on his duty to see that the Academy produces the finest Naval officers in the world.
These leadership failures, and they most certainly ARE leadership failures directly impact the fleet, and the blueshirts are now questioning the abilities of those placed into positions of authority over them. They wonder how, and why an officer got his commission. They question whether Lt "X" graduated from the Academy because she was an ace athlete, or because her scores and leadership abilities WERE that good.
The blueshirts are the ones who will do the fighting and most of the dying.They are the ones tearing down and rebuilding the machinery at sea, fighting the fires, plugging the holes, standing the watches.
Here's the rest...
The blueshirts ability's in any situation will be directly impacted by their level of trust in their officers, and tight now, there's a sense that all isn't as it should be, and that some folks are getting perks and passes when someone wearing a stripe instead of a bar is getting the boot for a similar transgression.
To the senior leadership of the Navy, I say: Grow the *&%$ UP! Lead by example. You have the responsibility to LEAD this Navy, not use it for personal gain. The Navy is supposed to be a warfighting organization, NOT a social-engineering petri dish. How do YOU leaders think it feels for a 1st-Class Petty Officer, an LPO, when he has to explain to his department why a certain Middy is allowed to graduate and join the fleet, when one of their shipmates is given the boot for exactly the same offense? It erodes that 1st-Class' abilities when he has to say it's "not your concern", and it corrodes that trust of the enlisted in those placed in command of them.
I'm going to sign off now, because I'm so damned angry about this entire situation. It's not a game, it's not a social experiment, it's a life where every day someone can (and often does) get killed doing their job. GROW UP!
As a taxpayer, I am beyond angry at what my tax dollars are paying for at Annapolis. Were it up to me, I'd close it down and send everyone back to sea, and start over from scratch.
respects,
<span>
<p><span></span>
</p><p>From my time on the Yard (more recent than yours), I would generally agree with your statement on top. I wouldn't say overall quality is down though. They've lowered the standards (small subtlety I realize...). The Vast majority of MIDN uphold the true standards, but enough fall below to cause a stir here and elsewhere. I also have my own inside sources on the Honor goings on the past few years and it is troubling. There is an increasing trend towards remediation (not necessarily a problem), but IMHO far too many multi-violators are retained. Mostly, these are minority (sex or racial or socio-economic) and athletic holds. Chet Gladchuck (through NAAA) holds significant sway with these decisions.
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</p><p>It seems there was a movement last year to increase the severity of the Honor System. This actually came from within the Brigade itself. It was at first widely rejected by the Brigade for being too soft and removing power from the hands of MIDN (not true as I may/may not have read copies of the proposal via my source). I do not have any SITREP as to where it stands now. You can look to the likes of ex-Navy football player, Nate Frazier, as confirmation of this special privilege as well ( http://www.hometownannapolis.com/blogs/post/2842740/Frazier-Dismissed.html ) and read the comments. It may be spurious rumor, but my source says otherwise.
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</p><p>P.S. I also have my suspicions that Frazier is the ex-MIDN mentioned in the good CDR's original post that passed the so-called "spiked" cigar to Stoner Mid.
</p></span>
Time to set the troll watch, boss...the WaPo story has opened a wormhole...
Kyle Eckle comes to mind.
Sadly, there are those types in every endeavour.
I did not delete anything. Must have got lost in the innertubes.
Bro-
it's difficult for this to happen with the threat of massive e-fry headed the Brigade's way...Such policies/actions are not conducive to open, candid discussion.
If the Superintendant is going to repeatedly undermine the Honor Board, I think it's time for the Midshipmen to bring back the long forgotten tradition of sending dishonorable mids to Coventry and refusing to acknowledge their existence except for required duties.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2H4DAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA55#v=onepage&q=&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=na9BAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q=&f=false
Same question to you, why post under guest? Maybe everyone is a little concerned for thier career / graduation, maybe it is easier cooperate to graduate. Maybe trying to change the Academy is like boiling the ocean.
Here's a leadership question for you all, one of the great ones that they love to in leadership classes:
You're a company officer/SEL at USNA and think that the Supe was the one smoking ganga when he made this decision. One of your mids comes up to you and says, "Sir, I'm really pissed off about this. What do you think?"
Do you give him:
"It's not important what you or I think, we need to support the CoC."
"The Supe is a three star, he has earned the right not to be questioned."
"Get used to it kid, stuff like this happens all the time in the fleet."
"The FB order is illegal, and I will support you if you join it."
"The Supe continues to show how big an idiot he is - let's have a sit-in on his lawn!!"
I would advise the young Gentleman or Lady that, if they were really upset about this situation, to first give it 24 hours to let off some steam, then, if they are still concerned, to go and have a talk with the JAG officer of their choice.
If, however, they would like to speak to higher ups about it, than I'd be happy to enforse their request chit and forward it to the next level.
Learn by doing.
There's an old saying that "Good choices come from experience. Experience comes from bad choices".
respects,
I think we're gonna easily break 300 by the time the dust settles on this one.
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<p>"Here at the USNA, there are many examples of good and bad leadership. it is your job to seek out both and learn from both. This is a general rule that is applicable at all times, not just now with the recent buzz. You must decide for yourself and endeavor to not repeat mistakes others made or tolerate those mistakes from your subordinates, just as you must endeavor to mimic the good examples and strive to obtain the same level of professionalism."
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</p><p>Maybe add a shout out to the PAO, "This is my opinion and in no way reflects the opinion of the Leadership Dept, USNA, DoN, DoD, or US Gov't. If you have any other questions please refer them to the PAO." Hahaha
</p><p>
</p><p>Seriously, though I do not envy their position. I would hope they use this situation as a solid PME on what is required of an officer. And that for every decision you make, you need to plan for the 2nd and 3rd order effect. Thats all I got.
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Straight from the myspace page for you all to enjoy...
Sounds like a future USN/USMC officer to me!!!
In the past month have you Stolen Anything:
maybe lol
Ever been Drunk:Ell yuhEver been called a Tease:Ell nawEver been Beaten up:nopeEver Shoplifted:
yup
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AW1:
"As a taxpayer, I am beyond angry at what my tax dollars are paying for at Annapolis. Were it up to me, I'd close it down and send everyone back to sea, and start over from scratch."
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Might do a world of good.
I am appalled by hearing about this story and learning more about it as I have read the below comments. It has been ten years since I graduated but the lessons I learned there still ring true today. This midshipman is a disgrace to the uniform, the institution, and separating him should be a NO-BRAINER! I just hope that, in five or ten years from now, USNA not only still be operating, but also one that still garners a bit of distinction when a grad mentions their alma mater. Mids- do the right thing, but don't forget your lessons about the CoC.
uh oh
http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/top/2010/01/28-29/Positive-drug-test-for-Navy-grid-star.html
As a member of a class that tried that whole "sit in on the Supe's lawn" thing let me just confirm that they can "fry us all".
No luv for 'ole Phib .... but I know The Capital doesn't dig blogs ... but that's ok.
I can't tell you how disappointed I am by this whole mess. AW1 Tim is dead on target about the corrosive effects things like this have to troops that have to live under this dual standard.
As to "I didn't know it was pot!!" you and I both know it is a crock.
But I'll tell you a story. In Germany, one fellow in my company did happen to take a hit from a blunt while drunk. He was pretty niave, and as soon as he realized what he'd done, he ran out of that gathering. He told his Sergeant, who told the First Sergeant, who brought it to the chain of command, who had him tested. No positive, but the CO told him, even if he'd hit, he'd have gotten a pass. Why? Because faced with a moral challenge, he'd endeavored to do the right thing.Your chain of command usually wants to help you, but you gotta let them know when you need help.
This story gets worse as we find out more about it. Three weeks restriction for drug abuse?! I used to award that to guys who were UA! I also doubt that the Midn in question cares much about the number of demerits he has.
I've had the system "eat" a couple of my comments while posting over the past couple of days. Maybe I'm just not Internet savvy enough.
The Conduct system is a little different now. Now restriction days only count on weekends. So 21 days accumulates to 7 weeks of marching tours, going to musters, etc. etc.
I was referring to the Fleet.
That is also "maxing out" at 100 demerits.
Like I said, I doubt he cares. So what happens if he gets more demerits (which sounds inevitable based on the postings here)? Will they throw him out then?
I've noticed the comments getting a little "hinky" (technical guru term for "we dunno wtf is happening" :) ) the past couple of days. In fact, this comment went blank as I was typing...must be the stress from this post and comment thread, or perhaps the blade servers hosting the service have been blunted...
I am slightly torn on this issue. I had an incident in the mid 80's at the age of 18. I was on the cross country team. I ran every day. I ate a lot. I went to a party, did not drink, but I was hungry and they had cookies. If I had known that they were not normal cookies, I would not have touched one, let alone six or more. I would not have even gone to the party. Later, I was one pissed off (stoned) individual. I ended a few friendships over it. I told almost no one, out of fear of getting booted. Thank god I didn't get drug tested.
I give the Supe much leeway on this if he thinks that the Midn didn't know.
21 days restriction?!?! I got more than that for underage drinking at CGA - and my time included the Thanksgiving holiday...
Like the quote AW1 and agree with it. Fortunately my "bad choices" were usually in minor things.
Restriction days only count on weekends. Friday-Sunday. 21 days of restriction= 7 weeks of restriction.
In response to theft etc. Yes, there has been much of that, with an expulsion in the past year (and subsequent time in the brig). However, there was another case of credit card theft and the purchase of multiple things from online that resulted in... merely restriction time. There are certainly times for 2nd chances, but at what expense and to what extreme? Certainly not at the expense of a higher moral, mental and physical place of training. With people not graduating because they can't pass the PRT by graduation (but given an extra semester to work on it) and someone even enrolled on the 6-year plan, many midn question if the "rigor" here still exists outside of the books. Heck, if I wanted just that, I would have gone to Yale.
I understand that you're trying to convince us that this Midn received the "max" punishment short of dismissal but to those of us who have served it sounds like a slap on the wrist. To put things in perspective you need to understand that a junior enlisted found guilty of a similar offense at Mast would probably have received 45 days restriction/45 days extra duty, reduction by one pay grade, and the forfeiture of 1/2 of their pay for 2 months in addition to being processed for administrative discharge. Even during my days as a Midn (a long time ago) somebody convicted of a major violation and allowed to remain (normally Midn 1/C because of the investment) at this point in the year would restrict until commissioning. I still remember one or two guys who took their oath of office in the 'Dant's office after their classmates graduated.
Thought, I'd be 300 just for the heck of it.... Are we uber-viral, yet?
His Myspace acct. is history. Yay that there are screenshots.
<p><span>Two words: Deliberate Ignorance. So say Midn STELLAR’s buddy passes him a blunt without STELLAR knowing what’s in it: believe that load of BS with me for just a second (everyone else has). Are we to believe that STELLAR, with his obvious collection of A-list buddies, has never even smelled pot before? I’d buy stock after an Obama speech before I buy that story. So STELLAR smells something funny (familiar even?), but ah what the hell, puff-puff (puff, puff puff puff….?) pass, and doesn’t ask questions because he figures his arse is covered as he doesn’t have knowledge. WRONG: Under the Manual for Court Martial, he can still be found in violation due to a handy little thing called Deliberate Ignorance which would subject him to “the same criminal liability as one who has actual knowledge”. It’s very conveniently located right under the definition of USE that was used in the PAO statement and obviously the actual trial. So the mighty USNA wants to follow “the letter of the law”? Let them, but there’s more than one letter in the alphabet…</span></p>
The historical reality we operate in from the 60s and 70s is one of: Gang and race wars at sea. Reenlistment rates below 50%. That Navy you seem to think was just fine had quite a few problems. Read Admiral Zumwalt's autobio. Then come talk to me about the historical context you think you understand so well.
nav. Stand a watch with a blueshirt. A blueshirt who you are in charge of and who will keep you alive if sh*t hits the fan. Say this blueshirt smoked pot 9 hours ago. Think he will see the small boat at night in the choppy sea? Do you want to risk that? Is the life of the crew of the ship worth it?
The point you are not getting is that it IS NOT ABOUT WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG FOR ONE PERSON it is about what is right for everyone. Look at this situation the unnamed MIDN has braught a sh*t storm down on the USNA and the Navy as a whole. He has made the supe's life a night mare, and for many, many more people. One selfish decision, mistake or not, cause all this sh*t to start flying around. The same sort of mistake, drug related or not, kills people at sea and at war.
This is why standards exist, this is why disicipline is enforced. This is why no matter what happens, this MIDN needs to be kicked out, it is for the sake of the Fleet, and the whole of the Deaprtment of the Navy. This issue is bigger than him, you, this blog, it is now about the entirety of the Navy and it's history.
Some of the comments below recommending mass striper resignations, etc. are troubling to me. If I was still counseling Midn I'd be asking, "What do you hope to accomplish and will your actions be effective?"
It's unlikely that the Supe is going to reverse himself on his decision which, because of its potential for publicity, was probably discussed with the CNO and SECNAV's offices prior to him taking it. The case has been adjudicated and to take additional action could result in legal action by the Midn potentially leading to all the punishment being set aside.
If the goal is to bring the Brigade's feelings to the attention of the Supe himself, trust me, he already knows thanks to the media reports, the involvement of his PAO, and (hopefully) feedback from the 'Dant and the BATT OFFs. A large number of company, battalion, and brigade stripers resigning now would most likely be portrayed as "the Mids are out of control and we need to crack down on them." Note the reaction to the Facebook group if you doubt me on this. Moreover, they can always reach down or across company lines to find more stripers. Regardless of peer pressure there will always be folks who want the job. You'd also be surprised by how few stripers you actually need to run the Brigade.
Some limited resignations by Midn directly involved in this case such as the guy's previous company commander and Honor Committee members who feel that they can no longer serve effectively might be worthwhile. As an alternative, they could request Admiral's Mast (if it hasn't happened already) to discuss this matter and its impact on the Brigade with the Supe directly. Any Brigade Commander worth the title would want to be in on this discussion as well. If nothing else, the Supe would be put on notice that the Brigade is watching for how he handles the inevitable return of this character to the disciplinary system.
My experience is that "guerrilla actions" as are being discussed here are usually ineffective and divert the administration's attention to those participating in them.
Just $0.02 from an old retired guy.
If the CNO and SECNAV level were really included in this before the Supe made his decision... One stupid decision on the part of a MIDN and accomplished men and beloved institutions have their core ideals challenged.
From the FAQ section of the public site:
The use of illegal drugs is strictly forbidden and results in expulsion from the Academy. As a midshipman, you are subject to random drug testing through urinalysis, consistent with Navy-wide policies and procedures.
Looks like there's gonna have to be an asterisk now...tsk tsk
But we love you Phib. (Not in a DADT way...) You aren't just ANY geek blogger, you know.
<span><span>
I would love to put my name on here and even my alpha, but for obvious reasons I will not.<span> </span>When I first came here I thought that I would be able to tell people with pride where I went to school.<span> </span>Now I am not so sure I even want people to know, and I certainly will not advertise where I went to school once I get back to the fleet.<span> </span>I love watching our football team win games (especially over Army) but at what cost.<span> </span>A few more overnights and more interesting Saturday afternoons during the fall are great but with big athletic programs come big scandals.<span> </span>I would much rather attend an institution with a good reputation which produces honorable graduates than one with a great football team.<span> </span>This is not to bash the entire football team because I know some football players who are great mids, and are able to handle the huge commitment of football while still doing well academically and militarily, but the fact remains that if the administration and the alumni association want a top notch football team they will have to make some sacrifices to get the right players and now we are seeing the consequences of those sacrifices.<span> </span>Back to the original point I am not putting my name on this so I will be able to graduate honorably and hopefully try to improve the reputation of USNA grads (it may be too late) once I get back to the fleet.
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We need one of those HITLER learns that MIDN Curry's story went viral
Sorta like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95iAgt7mfas
I have a MIDN at the Academy. We sat in a parents briefing in the fall of 2008 where Capt. Fowler said unequivocally that the Navy's officer's corps needs to look 'more like its enlisted corps' and that the Navy will have more diversity. Further, this may entail different standards to meet that goal. The retired officer sitting next to me was mumbling profanities at this idea. It would appear that the blunt smoking MIDN will serve the needs of the football team and the new goal of a diverse officer's corp.
C-dore, same with me. There are some things that I would like a do-over on, but in the main, it all worked out alright.
Except at the part where they make a bunch of people leave the room, they could say "Anyone who has been reading Salamander's blog must leave at once."
And out they all go. ;)
Yeah. He' OUR geek blogger!
Let me another "leadership" option to occur within the Brigade. If, as some reports indicate, even other football players are disgusted about this, then the captains of the football team need to step up to the plate. Any prospect that the football captains will approach Coach Ken N. and tell him that, for the good of USNA and the team, Curry should immediately be cut from the team. While it would be nice -- no, it would be amazing -- if that were to happen, it is sad that the culture that has allowed to develop at USNA puts the football team above all else - above, service, county, USNA, etc.
PS -- If anybody has an e-mail for the football captains, share it so we can lobby them to do the right thing.
<span><span>Okay so we are gonna Courts Martial 3 SEALs for rough handling a terrorist, but let a pot smoking midshipmen, who couldn't lead a crowd out of a burning walmart, off with just a demerit and a change of berthing?!?!
YGTBFSM... ELL NAW.....</span></span>
Like the Verizon crowd...
Instead of "Keitel, Jodl, Burgdorf, Krebs", it would be "Mabus, Roughead, Fowler, Kundler"....
Dang, I've been working longer in an industry POTUS is trying to take over, and missed out on all the fun. 300+ entries?
The perfect storm is right. Varsity ballplayer (Division 1 Football at that!!) smoking a blunt and being "let off" by senior Navy leadership. What's next, dual tracking admissions for diverse candidates? Oh wait, that's already happening, and it's been well covered here. My formerly enlisted person says...what would happen to the young E that did the same? We know the answer and it's what should happen to mr. slotback. Zero tolerance. It's why Sailors stand in line to pee in cups in the fleet, and Shipmates can feel confident in other's actions on & off duty.
Tough day to be in leadership or the PAO there; I feel for ya, it's a failure of leadership, pure & simple.
Finally got an email back from Mid son #2. I'm copying an excerpt (with his permission) of it here (of course cutting out the standard "can you throw a hundred bucks on my Yard Card?"). I've spent nineteen years giving him and his brother advice, but now I think I'm going to take his.
<span><span><span>
<p><span>"...Got your email last pm but was to busy to answer until now.<span> </span>I checked out some of the comments on the blog you follow and I understand their point of view. But there is one thing I’d like you to pass on to those folks who would like to see this place go away, and that is “Don’t Give Up The Ship!” Yes there are problems that need to be fixed, and there are some people here who probably shouldn’t be. <span> </span>I’ve even got a female in one of my classes that tells everyone who can stand to be around her that she’s a pacifist.<span> </span>But this is just a small percentage who no one takes seriously.<span> </span>Bottom line is that when you stand in Memorial Hall you can feel the presence of those that have gone before, and you know that it is your duty to pick up their burden and press on. You’re proud and humble at the same time and you swear to yourself that you won’t let them down.<span> <span><span> </span>It’s real and you carry it with you every day.<span> </span>Not everyone understands this but most do.<span> </span>The Brigade is strong and will carry on as it has always done.<span> "</span></span></span></span>
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I found this quite interesting...
http://www.newnavy.us/war-on-drugs/pass-drug-test.htm
...or you could have downloaded the whole thing .... like I did.
That would be a nice Sunday funny, wouldn't it? You know I am a Mac guy, right. You know I have iMovie, right ... .
Now that is funny!
BTW, I saw Charlie Gittins took their case. Good for them.
The leadership at Annapolis is even more of a disgrace.
This dirtbag has likely been getting a pass most of his life because of his athletic skill. Not to excuse him, but he doesn't know any better. Getting special treatment is normal for him.
http://blog.usni.org/2010/01/29/a-concept-of-honor/
The Annapolis Capital article made today's CHINFO clips, so I would expect more interest in the matter across the board.
Any bets on how much longer Fowler will be more interested in winning football games than winning wars?
After the color guard fiasco and coverup, he was on shaky ground, but perhaps SECDEF Gates or CNO will finally decide that this nonsense has raised sufficient doubts about his judgment that they have finally lost confidence in him. It sure sounds like everyone else has lost both confidence and respect for him, not the sort of thing that results in turning out the best leaders for our Navy.
And then, after Mr. Football star is gone, they need to take a really hard look at the guy who provided the initial coverup story that "he didn't know." What part of "lie, cheat or steal" don't they understand?
Sacking Fowler would send a strong signal to other FO/GOs that while "diverstiy" is fine, basic standards will be upheld. Otherwise, they are sending the opposite message.
Interesting...http://www.caaflog.com/2010/01/28/usna-football-star-retained-after-drug-pop/#comments Southern Defense Counsel <span>says:</span> January 28, 2010 at 6:48 pm
I predict this article will be Counsel for Respondent Exhibit A in numerous adsep boards in the near future.
I would not be surprised if 1) the MIDN is off the team within a few weeks by other players' pressure on coach and/or public pressure on program and 2) he leaves quietly after sophomore year before his 2 for 7 commitment (since there is not much else for him to do - his credibility is ruined way beyond Annapolis now)
His "career" is already ruined, and I would advise him to move on and go play football/go get education somewhere else (GA Tech?). Maybe Coach Ken can talk to Paul Johnson...
Many Navy folks (athletes and otherwise) have moved to other schools after soph year (with no penalty/commitment/payback and free 2 years of college education). It is not for everyone, regardless of "leadership's" (and I use that term loosely) "goals (quotas)".
CD14's Wisdom
<span>Some of the comments below recommending mass striper resignations, etc. are troubling to me. If I was still counseling Midn I'd be asking, "What do you hope to accomplish and will your actions be effective?" </span>
I was chewing on this yesterday, and also on what Neptunus Lex said a few days ago as well:
Publicly disparaging the institution or its graduates would have brought a tincture of discredit to the rest of us. We knocked our rings, exchanged knowing glances and kept the dirty laundry out of sight.
While that continued suppression of ethical inconsistencies has arguably led to the seismic activity on the Severn we see today (and a good airing has obviously been sorely needed), staging a protest that could be seen in the same vein as what happened here is not the way to go either.
Not suggesting that all should be smoothed over and forgotten -not by a long shot- but the follow on campaign to right things needs to stay in the liflelines (after a CoC). Otherwise, for some time to come, every newly minted ring knocker walking aboard will first have to pass an initial "lets see if he (she) is worth a damn" test....
I would submit, Sid, that an Officer trained in a climate that fosters such "ethical inconsistencies", that initial test is eminently fair.
This scenario could very well play out. Surely the Supe would have anticipated such an outcome (?) So if it ends up this way, he has a demoralized Brigade, an Honor Code in disrepute . . . and no star running back for all his trouble.... Heckuva result . . . almost makes you want to root for Army . . .
Outstanding post.
Your son is wise beyond his years. Tell him this old alum knows what he's talking about because I make a point of visiting Memorial Hall every time I return to USNA for just the reasons he mentions. My class (Vietnam era) had its share of self-proclaimed pacifists and my 1/C year the WaPo ran an article about Midn who bought wigs so they would "fit in" with their civilian counterparts while on liberty. Eventually the small percentage that you son speaks of fall away and his classmates who have taken the school's message of honor and service to heart remain.
As long as USNA continues to develop men and women like him it will continue to fulfill its mission. Give them my best.
I agree that surely the Supe could've anticipated this outcome and the ongoing uproar. Yet he made his decision anyway. Does that, just maybe, lead anyone besides me to believe that there just might be more to the story? The easiest thing to do would be to kick the kid out. Yet he didn't. And don't give me the "minority football player" b.s. Google Nate Frazier who was a minority football player who was probably going to be the most important defensive player on the team this past season. Til he got thrown out by Fowler just days before the season opener at Ohio State. I agree that on the surface, this sounds bad, but I am willing to bet there is more to the story.
You're probably right that there's more to the story. I've seen many cases of COs deciding to rehabilitate some "dirt bag" and turn him into a productive sailor against the recommendation of the chain of command. In the case of Midn it's not uncommon for senior officers wrap themselves around the axle of the place's mission of developing midshipmen and retain the undeserving. Generally these cases turn out badly and there's always a negative impact on the morale of the folks who abide by the rules unless the decision is explained fully.
In this case, however, it's extremely unclear as to why this particular individual, with an extensive history of conduct and honor violations (if the postings below are correct) was given this exceptional second chance. More troubling is that Fowler's decision was based, in part, on a letter provided by an individual who is subject to neither the Academy's disciplinary system nor its Honor Concept.
Because of the turmoil this decision has caused within the Brigade and elsewhere I believe that VADM Fowler owes the public a more complete explanation of his reasoning. Sending out his PAO to quote the Privacy Act and the regulation regarding illegal use of drugs does not reflect the courage that I expect from a Flag or General Officer.
I submit that if that the leadership was "credible" we would be well satisfied that other events were non-events, already handled with the handshake or nod.. but the great shoe fiasco of the color guard and the dint of racism from the admissions, shows the alumni are probably not in alignment with the current message, or messengers...
I'm good with the fool moving on... it isn't about him, it is about the standards of conduct being equal to all, the consequences of an action being equal for all and the punishment for contrary behavior, being equal for all....
I love my Navy to much to let this stand unmarked...
Maybe if the admissions folks screened better, and werent forced into a diversity box, we could recruit the BEST QUALIFIED regardless of race or gender, to serve and these headaches would not find their way to the Admirals desk... but I digress...
it will. But I will still vote to seperate and the little training JAG will be wasting his time...
THATS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!
indeed I hope Charlie wins!
Exactly! Right about now I'd like to know how many really deserving, academically superior and morally superior candidates were not accepted, who wouldn't have drunk, used drugs, committed honor violations, and admitted to stealing, but were turned down so this clown could play football.
ELL YEAH!
He threw out Frazier, but the reports that I read on that guy suggest that the Supe had little alternative by that point -- i.e. Frazier was already guilty of MULTIPLE serious infractions, honor and otherwise. However, this (multiple infractions) also seems to the be case with Curry. The only difference I see is that Frazier's final infraction was honor, and Curry's was illegal drug use. If what is written in the media about these guys' Midshipman careers prior to their lastest infractions is true, it's a serious head scratcher as to why they were still Mids at all when they got in trouble, let alone varsity athletes. Hopefully there's more to the story, but it sure seems like a sad refection on both USNA and Navy Football / athletics.
hmmmnn .....
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1064016598-post17.html
is it from the brigade commander or the brigade executive commander?
To comment on CD14's inquiry about whether striper resignations would be effective, I would submit that such a course of action is not for the purpose of effectuating a specific goal or accomplishment. Instead, it truly becomes an inner-question for the stripers themselves -- whether they will be true to the principle and the concept of honor and integrity that was (or should have been) so offended and violated by this course of action by the Supe that the stripers will, as a matter of personal princple, step down from their position.
Such resignations by stripers is not necessarily for public consumption -- it is simply whether stripers can, in good conscience to themselves, continue to serve in their position; can they continue to look at themselves in the mirror? Even if a single striper were to resign over this and no one else knows about it, he or she will still be the better person for it and so long as he or she knows it, that is all that matters.
Their audience is not necessarily the Brigade, the alumni or the public; their audience is simply themselves and their God. What more audience does one need?
Veritas, your point is well taken. My comment was about what I would ask these Midn before they took such an action and to describe what the most like reaction by the administration would be. If a striper cannot in good conscience remain in his/her position then by all means they should step down. It certainly would be appropriate in the case of those stripers who were directly involved in this case and who felt their concerns had been ignored. The resignation of stripers from the other regiment, however, could easily be dismissed by the Administration as immaturity rather than a moral action. My alternative suggestion (Request Mast) might be more effective in terms of bringing the seriousness of the Brigade's concern to the Supe's attention.
He is correct on the honor aspect. Curry has only been adjudicated guilty on one of the three accusations. However, I also know that he was found guilty by an honor board of the third accusation. He appealed on a technicality and received a do-over. With "adjusted" testimony, he was found not guilty. Regardless, this is not an honor case. It's a "zero tolerance" drug case with a very dangerous outcome, quite contradictory and hypocritical to outcomes which occur every day in the Fleet and FMF.
Nav - ex-Midn X has everything to lose by not owning up to spiking a cigar. A signed letter admitting it could land him in jail for possession and potentially trafficking in the community in which the offense occurred. You're right, though, the offense was not all that bad but still did not meet the high standards required of a Midn. He should be kicked out and he can enter an honorable profession as a civilian. That's not all that bad, either.
<span>"It's a "zero tolerance" drug case with a very dangerous outcome, quite contradictory and hypocritical to outcomes which occur every day in the Fleet and FMF."</span>
Oh, absolutely. I think Curry should be out. I liked that the post clarified the process it went through, however.<span> GoNavyXC has taken a lot of cr@p on those boards in the past because of his concern for the honor system.
</span>
Amen
Love the moniker!
You all have no live's. Go lead people instead of bitching about a life you cannot change or make an impact on. Oh yeah, the reason you spend so much time on this blog is that you can't, good buy, I have to go shape the Nation's leaders......
RW,
Pretty ballsy for me, but I would recommend two things for you;
1. Elements of Style.
2. Eats, Shoots & Leaves.
You know, If I can convince my two Senators, Snowe & Collins, to investigate the goings-on at Annapolis, I suspect that WOULD mean I had an impact on someone's life.
A lot of the folks here have had many years in the Navy, and have a pretty good handle on leadership. Spelling too, FWIW. I may not be on active duty anymore, but that doesn't mean I'm not doing what I can to promote the Navy's core values, especially at places where they are supposed to be used to instruct future officers. Officers who are supposed to be leading by example.
It is good to be loyal to an institution, but the days of tying yourself to the mast as the ship slides beneath the waves are long gone. This Navy needs competent leaders, af all ranks and rates. In order to accomplish that, however, it needs to be shown that there is ONE UCMJ for ALL.
I can assure you that the very first sign of corrosion is when asterix' begin to appear beside rules and regulations regarding personal conduct. You don't treat that sort of problem when it first appears, you won't need to worry about the material condition of the fleet.
Word, shipmate.
So who's "...bitching about a life.." Looks like someone has no lives too... Just sayin...
RW, you been watching MTV and reruns of Black Hawk Down again?
Mos Def
Phib: Congratulations, you've boxed the compass, one pt per degree. Side bets on 500, anyone?
Sid:
"Otherwise, for some time to come, every newly minted ring knocker walking aboard will first have to pass an initial "lets see if he (she) is worth a damn" test...."
Hate to pop your bubble mon ami, but for folks that came to the Nav from the colleges of cows and mines, at least the ones who made it up to wings/dolphins/SW pins et al, it's been SOP when a newly minted NAG checks aboard - for 40 years anyway. For the enlisted folks, it's more like since they moved the Mids ashore sometime after that regretable incident on the W Africa antiblackbirder patrol.
The magic of the ring is a legend in the wearers' minds. Scruffy second tier commissioning source types and the common enlisted folk, doing what they do for the defense of the republic, hearth and home, take a dimmer view, somewhat different than "automatically impressed"; at least until they see the nugget has some humility and common sense, and is serious about getting their job done. After that, if the young man/woman is smart and a fast learner, they are prepared to be impressed. Not expecting to, or assuming that they will, but watching with an open mind.
A fact of life and something for the NAG strikers in the peanut gallery to bear in mind.
Prepare yourselves, mes enfantes, your protected idyll will soon come to an end. Right after Graduation, aka the biggest demotion of your young life....but cheer up, as long as all your bullet holes are in the front side, we won't be ashamed of you (H/T J. Ford and W. Bond).
The ocean doesn't give a damn if you got a sheepskin or where. Neither does incoming fire.
Well unfortunately, you can't separate a MIDN who has already been separated... I suspect I know who this former MIDN was... And he had been kicked out for multiple Honor violations. I agree with you regarding Fowler as well.
I have my suspicions that Frazier (who went to play in Georgia, where said "blunt" smoking allegedly occured) is the one who passed the marijuana to Curry. Additionally, I can tell you from my inside sources that Frazier was a multi-violator of the Honor Concept. He had approx 6 accusations (3 of which resulted in findings of "In Violation") of integrity issues. There was clear favoritism played there, along both 'diversity' lines and athletic lines.
I meant beyond the usual stuff...
These next few classes that graduate will have a tough time of it...especially when it comes to administering NJP.
"Hey, you ring knockers get away with it!"
We have lost the bubble. We seem to care more for the legacy of Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium than Memorial Hall. Diversity is a noble and important goal, but never at the expense of quality.
The Supe has run up against the Avatar Generation.
It appears, that to the majority of the youngin's there on Severn, Honor does matter....
I also recall the story about the EE scandal. There were roughly 100 found to be in violation and the mids sent all of them up and desired separation, but the senior leadership chose not to, probably based on the PR fall out from kicking 100 mids out for cheating. The couple I know from that class both told me the same story. In this case, I think the Supe made a mistake. He, the alumni, and the Brigade are dealing with the repurcussions now.
BTW, it has always struck me as important that the money that flows in for the football teams from alumni comes from one time commissioned officers. It seems they may have lost the bubble as well if they are the ones pushing this policy through their funding. Just a thought.
Then God help the nation's leaders. Hope you're not teaching them grammar and punctuation and spelling.
So let me do you a favor and ring the schoolbell on your thick noggin. It should be:
You all have no lives.
Go lead people instead of bitching about a life you cannot change or impact. ("Making an impact on" is a redudancy compounded by the egregious grammatical crime of ending a sentence with a preposition.)
Oh, yes... (yeah is incorrect. Kind of like Ell naw!) the reason you spend so much time on this blog is that you can't. Good bye. I must go shape the nation's leaders. ("have to" is what five year olds say when obligation is imposed from outside their own psyches. "Must" is what adults say of their own self-driven inherent obligations and duties.)
See, that is how educated adults write! Won't your reports and memos up the CoC be fun! Seems they'll know the Boat School grads by their illiterate memos in days to come. What ARE we getting for our $200k these days?
No one here cares about that one particular life. It's on an eminently predictable trajectory. (Look it up. Big word, I know. But it's in a thing called a DICTIONARY.)
We care about an institution and a Navy that we all know and love for various reasons. And yes, people here have the ability to change and impact THAT. In a big way. So go double up on your studies. Something tells me your grades are low in areas other than grammar and spelling also.
Check out the US Naval Academy's official Facebook page, some guy is making the exact same comment on everyone of their updates.
Talk about Avatar generation
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Annapolis-MD/United-States-Naval-Academy-Official-Site/94274618090#/pages/Annapolis-MD/United-States-Naval-Academy-Official-Site/94274618090
RW, Wholly Krap Duide,,
whe're dad ya lern to SpEl? Futball pleyer's Fashebuk Page's? Dimand you're mony bak fromm whe're yu god you're edumacashon. Pliz
Football players have always had a different standard applied to them. It's unfortunate that the leadership hasn't been able to treat people fairly. Whether it be conduct or honor, if you're a football player, you don't have to maintain the same standards. It's unfortunate that they have such low expectations set for them.
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