What are the latest plans for the USS PONCE (LPD-15) trying to tell us?
I'm pondering over at USNIBlog. Come visit.
25 minutes ago
Tuesday, January 31, 2012
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What is Sal drinking?
I'm going to be spending some quality time with the list of Southern cocktails from Garden & Gun through the new year.
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19 comments:
What it means is this: the DOD acquisition process is incapable of delivering new-build warships carrying the required combat capabilities in any kind of reasonable timeframe, and within what we think should be an acceptable cost.
If we want the US Navy's fleet numbers to remain at current levels, we have to rely mostly on legacy warships to carry the burden, and we also have to accept the expenses that go with refurbishing, maintaining, and operating all those legacy warships.
While the concept of an afloat forward staging base is nothing new, it makes one wonder why the Navy chose to broadcast this conversion plan and subsequent deployment plan as they did. My buddies in NSW were furious when this was announced, and I imagine the sailors aboard won't be too happy, either. There used to be a concept called Operational Security, which apparently has been abandoned. As far as the platform specifically, they could not have picked a better one with regards to capabilities, although I do not envy the machinist mates who will keep her running in the Gulf. As far as your suggested pre-positioning ship, Sal, does it have a well deck? In performing this specific mission several years ago, the amphib in which I served in stayed at wet well for weeks at a stretch, and it was used every day. That may be the reasoning for this specific platform vice others. All other discussions aside, the OPSEC issue still bothers me.
Washington Navy is at war w/ Washington AF and Army. War with other entities take a back seat to this. To quote Col Boyd wrt building the F16, "F*ck the Soviets! What is the Navy doing?!" Budget wars baby, budget wars!
I think somebody is praying for a new mantis... it feels like 80s again?
Looking forward to the Global Force For Good Legwarmers in Aqua Flage pattern.
Seriously, OPSEC is a little bit of a red herring here. This isn't like an SSBN converted to be an NSW mothership. There's no way to hide PONCE when it's sitting off someone's coast with a wet well deck. All this announcement means is that everyone knows about it 3 weeks sooner than they might otherwise have figured it out.
LPDs have well decks. I'll bet they end up wishing they had one of the flag-configured LPDs with the additional level in the superstructure. Those extra support spaces come in handy.
I would disagree. While yes, you are correct in that it's impossible to hide her when off someone's coast, there is no need to broadcast her mission ahead of time, nor is there a need to identify her by name. If this had not been made public, it would have just been another ship in the yards in Norfolk/Portsmouth. By identifying her specifically as the platform, as soon as she is seen, she is immediately identified as well as her mission known. This restricts the ability of whoever is aboard her to actually carry out their missions. Additionally, although this is not considered much, there is the possibility of personal reprisal against sailors aboard her, should their identities become known, which is really not difficult in today's age. The US has enemies who could use proxy groups to effect just such an attack. And even if all of the above information were figured out 3 weeks later, as you suggest, I would rather have that. Never give 'em an inch. Make our enemies earn it.
I think you're overestimating the ability of people to keep their mouths shut. Remember, the only way you can keep a secret is if only two people know it and one of them is dead.
On a whole different note, do the letters R/BD mean anything to you in connection with the letter Q, which may or may not be mighty?
the thing about stretching the old hulls is that the head shed figured that they would decommission this one in a few months. because of that decision they have probalby been letting things slide.
like tie downs on the flight deck that pull out of the deck itself (if the come along isn't rusted solid).
if this old hog is a steamer then the engine room is probably a lot hotter than normal cause the air ejector condensor and associated equipment isn't working that well, and god knows how bad the labrynith packing is worn.
whenever they lift safeties (actually happens every five years or so when they get like that) the fire room gets a bit foggier than usual.
opening and closing the stern gate is probably a primer in cursing, deballasting the well deck might be an excercise in extreme prayer.
hoisting the anchor takes ALL of the first and second divisions combined (those boats used salvaged anchor tackle from Essex class carriers with 90# chains) on the windlas capstan.
then there's the serious stuff.
like sea chests that are getting pretty tired, fire pump foundations (byron would call them sub bases) that hold the pump and the motor in line more by imagination than steel, water tight doors to weather decks that are only watertight by definition. hull seams that you can see right through to check whether its dawn or dusk.
when they're that old and ready to go the crew needs to do morning quarters at the abandon ship stations and the sound and security watches really have to be on the ball.
might not hurt to sleep in working clothes (you never know when you might hear "When the Bear Goes over the Mountain" comming over the 1mc).
C
The ENTERPRISE is going on her last deployment. Why not just leave her in the Northern Arabian Gulf as huge staging platform? Let her burn what remaining EFPH (fuel) she has to keep the lights burning and the SEALs fed.
All tongue in cheek of course...
Yes, refurbishing legacy warships is a very expensive proposition depending upon the age and condition of the ship. But under DOD's current acquisition process, would refurbishing legacy warships be quicker and less expensive on average than taking a decade or more to develop and deploy a new-build ship?
Fair enough. And no, I am not aware of any connection the letters R/BD have with the letter Q, which in my case is definitely mighty.
Okay, never mind about the letters, then.
But, and here's a question I haven't seen mentioned here which means that nobody's reading the USNI blog entry ...
What modifications does an amphib actually need for SOCOM assets to operate from? What makes it different from any other amphib? The shipalt package seems to point to this being more a replacement for INCHON's MIW mothership role than anything else.
I would imagine that it would require a much updated C4ISR suite, among other things. Having not read the shipalt package itself, that would be the first thing I could think of. Upgraded A/C, CHW, RO units in addition to evaps, possible docking stations within the well deck are some others.
It's already built to support a battalion of Marines. It's got plenty of potable water capacity and air conditioning. (Assuming that those systems work, aynway... ) As far as well deck facilities ... the last well deck I was in had plenty of tie-downs and such. They're built to operate landing craft from - they've got plenty of facilities for that sort of thing.
As for C4ISR ... that shouldn't be much more than updating a few things in Radio. Nothing earth-shattering. If they need a SSES, that's maybe a different thing, but that would seem to be overkill. Her mission is not to perform the gathering operations herself, but to support those who do.
C you are right, and one wonders why, when the Navy knew a mission like this was possible and the intended platform LCS were not going to cover it, WHY did they make this choice so seemingly late in Ponce's career?
It is not the DAR/FAR rules which lead to a decision in this case. SOMEONE in the Pentagon, knew there was an UFL need, and someone knew what was in the buget submission. My question is did the left hand know what the right hand was doing?
BTW if the Navy were to change gears and buy an existing desing, they SHOULD be able to get a new ship IOC in less than 5. And taking that one step further IF the Navy understood how to chater, they could have chartered say the RFA Largs Bay which has similar features, OR other foreign possibilities which of course are all killed by being NIH.
I don't think any of the changes would be earth-shattering, but I'm speaking from experience when I'm talking about the changes I've suggested. The Austin-class amphibs definitely needed new A/C units. I know that adding ROs aren't necessary per se, but evaps have a much tougher time making water when the SWIT is high, such as in the gulf. In order to avoid water hours, RO units would be a good idea. And I've been on water hours multiple times on multiple amphibs even when Marines were not onboard. Plus they have much lower maintenance requirements. And I'm not talking about tie-downs in the well deck. I'm talking about designed docking stations for small boats within the well deck. If they will keep a wet well for a significant period of time, and have small boats transiting in and out all the time, designated small boat docking stations might not be a bad idea. Of course there are ways that it can be made to work without any additions, but if one were looking for ways to improve the ship, these could be decent ideas. Again, I'm speaking from experience with all these recommendations. I've served on these ships and done this mission before.
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