(sshhhh, don't tell anyone at the DDG-1000 office. shhhhh)
Hat tip Paul.
35 minutes ago
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Duct tape me to the rack; seriously
(sshhhh, don't tell anyone at the DDG-1000 office. shhhhh)
Hat tip Paul.
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With the DDG-1000, that wave would have been preceeded by the following announcement over the 1MC " Now hear this, now here this! All hands rig for diving, all hands rig for diving! " AAAAAOOOOGA! AAAAAOOOOGA!
If you put something under the matress and slope it towards the bulkhead, it helps keep you in. Roll bars, and straps do too. Those are the days when you wish you had explored the exciting world of forrestry. :)
tuck the blanket in on both sides to lock me into the rack...
I see that and hear "flight quarters, now flight quarters, all hands man your flight quarters station for launch of Holy Helo Stalker 460. Hold all trash on station. Now flight quarters" followed by some jazzy inspirational music over the 1 MC.
Boondockers are great for this. Flight deck boots, even better...
Monte Cristo sandwiches, anybody?
No duct tape needed, put your boondockers under the outside edge of your mattress and you will never roll out.
A bug in the Storm Evading Software?
If only it had fin stabs!
"A gale is a gale, Mr. Jukes," resumed the Captain, "and a full-powered steam-ship has got to face it. There's just so much dirty weather knocking about the world, and the proper thing is to go through it with none of what old Captain Wilson of the Melita calls 'storm strategy.' " - J.Conrad, "Typhoon"
A day at the SWO office.
Yeah, once...
It's easy.
If you're feeling seasick, go sit underneath a tree.
Famous last words in the ship's office: "Gee Nav! What do you mean, secure that file cabinet for sea? It must weigh 500 lbs, it's not going anywhere."
<span>And the ship under the boondocks of the photographer of that picture is riding the troughs, now THAT is a fun ride. One of my favorite COs was fond of "inviting" the JOs (or any assigned Midn) up to the bridge in weather like this for "shiphandling training." Why head toward calm seas when you can wheel in formation and radio the ship astern and say, "Corpen starboard 130, standby, execute" or "Form one, desig 1 lima mike, desig 2 foxtrot xray, standby to execute." THAT was some good stuff.
The one I hated to hear wa "Tango alfa seven seven." Anyone remember that one?</span>
Tell me again how fast the LCS can go in weather like this....
Or if it can even survive in weather like this at any speed.
In the old DESRON 2, the staff weenies (like me) had to choose a ship to get underway on during hurricane ops. I picked the 'AWFUL ARTHUR RADFORD' (may the the hull rest in peace).
Being a carrier guy, I was sick all over the place, but not as bad as those who picked the FFG-7s with their non-compensating fuel tanks .... fin stabs be damned. Those things bobbed like corks in the water.
Man! That's a mild roller coaster ride in the kiddie part of the amusement park!
You haven't experience a rough sea state until you've gone through those seas in an old bow door LST.
The racks all came equipped routinely with two seat belt arrangements to keep the occupants from being flung onto the deck.
3" 50 shell casings under the inboard side of the rack, wedging you against the bulkhead worked pretty well too, with pillows at the foot and head of the rack to keep you from getting compression fractures as you were shuttled fore and aft with the ship's vibrations.
Based on the west coast LCS, it just cracked a weld from just thinking about sending her out in that!
Been there. We were on "holiday routine" for 4 days during a typhoon / scirocco in the med on ELMER MONTGOMERY in 91. Lost our 40.. it was hanging over the mount. Helo held up well but we were unable to eat hot meals for that time and most just resorted to eating out of the ships store. The smell of puke was a particular fond memory...
Our boxes of paper broke free and went sliding across the deck. I jumped over two, landed, jumped back up to avoid the return trip. I think the guys that tied them up tied the pilot's ladder on the USS Howard.
I also learned that day that the reefer in my space was not secured to the bulkhead. No, this was not a USS ship.
During some weather , we got locked out of our A-gang shop when a drill press broke the bolts off. When the press fell over it wedged itself between the lathe and the door.
The HT shop was right beside our shop. We then got the torch out and cut the door loose to give us access.
Was also a miserable time to be on the throttles. When my screw was coming out of the water I would spin the throttle closed. Then when it started to bite again, trying to open it without drawing the boiler down. This opening and closing of the throttle drove the BT's mad.
Have long looked for the series of pics that came from! But they are no longer on the navy.mil pic gallery.
She abandoned an attempt at an UNREP due to sea conditions (pics taken from the UNREP ship).
Chief Torpedoman...Note the <span>LACK</span> of running rust. No, it should NOT be acceptable.
Duct tape will do you no good if the rack shelf brackets give way, the shelf flips up on a roll and launches you across berthing! I've seen it happen.
Impressive!
Good news is that TSCE will <span>NEVER</span> allow a DDG-1000 to blunder into those conditions....
<span>Was on a Knox-class frigate in '83 (Miller FF-1091) as we skirted a hurricane off Hatteras. Wild ride. About three days' worth. Seemed like she rode like a pencil in a jaccuzzi.
I remember keeping status board watch on the bridge (the XO was amazed that a Marine could write at all, let alone backwards!!) and looking out over the Mk 42 mount. One minute all you see is sky. Then all you see is water. And over the stem it would go.
MTH is right. The puke smells, and the puke stories, are fond recollections. I believe the below picture was taken just before we hit the bad stuff.
</span>
Sheesh.
This is where GSCM (Redacted) would be breaking out the smoked oysters in mayonnaise in CCS, just to f**k with the FNGs.
"<span><span>the XO was amazed that a Marine could write at all, let alone backwards!!"</span></span>
Grease pencils are like Crayolas, he should have known a Marine could handle that!
Ducking and seeking cover for the counter battery. :)
Rolling about on Austin in 96, one Marine Captain went into the berthing of some green-tinged Officers and asked if they wanted a Liverwurst and Mustard sandwich served on sourdough bread....
He was greeted with a chorus of "F*CK YOU!" and had a boot thrown in his direction. O:-)
Imagine what it will be like in the amphitheater sized spaces on the DDG-1000....
Puke-o-rama!!!!
Pea soup consistency fluids flying everywhere!
Oh well...Perhaps it will get folks to stop concentrating on their crotch issues for a bit...
Thats if that sure to be leaky composite deck house stays aboard and is not swept away as the hull submerges.
And, as the water inevitably finds the guts of that wonderful TSCE and certain critical components spit and hiss like a rabid cat before dying, then what?
Sure, sure. Everyone's a comedian.
Oddly, that is one of the few natural talents I seem to have. (Other than charm and rogueish good looks, of course.)
It was aboard Miller that I discovered I can print as quickly and as neatly backwards as I can forwards. What a bizarre thing to find out. I chalk it up to one of the many straight right hands I have taken to the head over the years...
Note the lack of running rust streaks emmanating from every weld...As is common and apparently acceptable in today's navy....
Then what? There goes your network-centric information dominance!!!!
4 MEUs, 4 Death Stars (LPH, LHD, LHA, LHA), thankfully.
I never would have survived on anything smaller.
"Hey RALPH, do you wanna buy a BUICK!!!"
I would bet dollars to donuts that the DDG-1k folks well just tell you that the tumblehome hull form would have sliced those waves open like a hot knife goes through butter. Simply because all of you don't believe in it doesn't mean it won't work. It does work according to all the computer models and besides who has ever heard of a rogue waves they are like the white whale or the Kraken!
GBW,
As usual, a man after my own heart.
Likewise there is only one score that I have in my head to equate with the vision of a CVN/CV slicing through the water...
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Ever notice the ghostly silhouette of an Essex that appears on the horizon as the theme plays?
Not a substitute...
But a right good contender
Indeed. And if the wind is blowing just right, there seems to be the rumble of forty Double Wasps revving on the aft flight deck....
Bookends....
Here
and
Here
Hmmm...IKE enroute IO the long way (via Roaring 40s in '80)
Green water over the angle - check
21-point tiedowns - check
pressing at max possible speed (*we* were going to do the hostage rescue) - check
Lost our AGI escort three days ago - check
VA losing her sonar dome - check
Young buck Ensign on his first real deployment and having the time of his life -- double check...definitely double check.
Those were the days...
w/r, SJS
The days of ashtrays glued to chart tables...
Slife the Boon dockers under the matress and rack to assist the curve and keep you inert.
Bungee cords worked well
Check out this fancy study done with "MATLAB", like this scientists and engineers can really predict how a ship will operate at sea:
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/61913/707091168.pdf?sequence=1
They think they're so smart but only us real sailors now how DDG 1000 will perform at sea. We don't need no fancy degree to know that. We're way more smarter that those college folks.
Personally, I've found staying at the Holiday Inn does away with all this rolling and pitching stuff.
URR,
One of my best friends has Spina Bifida. Her left hand mirrors her right hand when she writes. Pretty cool to see.
If you stay at the Holiday Inn Express, you can calculate the simple harmonic motion of the rolling and pitching!
Any research paper that features an "autonomous kayak" can't be wrong - right?
That's a great pic to send to my friends who say, "Oh, I could never go to sea on a submarine..."
I know that I have harped on this before, but we really need to see how LCS 2 handles this sea state before we let the navy scrap all our Fig7s
I had two LSTs among my sea commands. I specifically remember on the second one (LST-1189) the bell by the BMOW table on the bridge rang with a 53 degree roll. The bell rang many times.
FWIW...
Tri's have inhrerent issues in heavy seas.
<span>I did my First Class Midshipman cruise on Miller the Summer of '82. Ensign Mark Paxxxn was my running mate. Cool guy. We saw some heavy weather operating off Newport. Nothing like the feeling of an FF-1082 sonar dome coming clear out of the water and then smashing back down. The entire keel shakes.</span>
<span>Almost as fun as the plant unintentionally going off line and going DIW on a single screw ship. That beast could roll when DIW!</span>
1200 pound steam...I have visions of Cheng running down below like the father in "A Christmas Story" when the furnace goes out. It's a clinker!
Welcome to my world.... I was on a Spruance class (DD-990) following a typhoon in 1983 somewhere in the Westpac. I learned how to sleep holding onto my towel rack. I think it lasted about a week, but it sure did feel like 3.
I can smell those nasty things now.
BSG,
For some of the time off Hatteras, we were tooling around doing SONAR/ASW training, so we were barely making headway, screaming along at about 2 or 3 knots. Which leads to another Miller story....
Pay attention to how they built that damn thing. Not the Office like doors everywhere. THAT ship is designed to NEVER EVER ger hit by anything. If it does get hit it will be a damn near total loss. It looks like some office pukes idea of a warship.
Is that kinda like 40k Dakka? Painting it red makes it go faster.
Yes but that is a sail boat all the propulsion comes from the top and the 3 hulls are all equal really. I actucally think the trimaran hulls are a good idea for some ships. Alluminum hulls now..............maybe not.
Of course the DDG-1K's bridge is made of Composites "aka wood" so....who am i to judge.
Back in the summer of 2005, over on the warships1 forums, I made the prediction that the DDG-1000 program would greatly exceed its then-projected cost and schedule estimates; and that the total cost for the Zumwalt Class to reach IOC might well be in the $30-billion dollar range before everything was all said and done.
To draw that kind of conclusion, I did what one could consider as being the "mother of all parametric estimates" by first generating a chart which compared the DDG-1000 Zumwalt Class specification with the F/A-22 Raptor specification, and then by generating a second chart which illustrated DDG-1000's historical unit cost trends.
The following chart from 2005 draws specific parallels between the major subsystems of the DDG-1000 and the F/A-22, viewing each of the categorized subsystems as being roughly equivalent to each other in terms of their relative scope and complexity, and in terms of the similarity of the respective R&D processes needed to reach IOC for the platform as a whole:
DDG-1000 -- F/A-22: Project Scope and Complexity Comparison (2005)
Looking at the downward historical trend in programmed DDG-1000 (nee DDX) hulls, and the upward historical trend in its unit costs, as both of these trends stood in 2005, I further predicted that near the end of the decade, the Zumwalt Class would be cancelled and that Burke Class production would be continued as a matter of necessity on into the next decade. These historical trends, as they existed in 2005, are illustrated here:
DDG-1000 / DDX Project Trajectory
Three years later, in the summer of 2008, the DDG-1000 program would have been terminated outright had the Politics of Navy Shipbuilding Interminable (PONSI) not stepped in to rescue it from cancellation through a forced truncation of the project to just three hulls.
I think what will happen with DDG-1000 in the next decade is that the Navy will push these three ships into IOC while very significant performance issues still remain outstanding. The Navy will then either steal money from the operational budgets to pay for a variety of very expensive modifications and upgrades; or else the Navy will accept these ships pretty much as they are and will thus accept the combat risks that go with not fixing predictable shortfalls in their currently-expected levels of operational performance and reliability.
Dont worry about LCS-2.....worry about LCS-1.
Its a freaking death trap in a bad storm. VERY shallow draft VERY top heavy.
what happened to the good old fashioned bunk straps.
C
Every freaking year, the Group would forget we were sailing in typhoon water during ANNUALEX, and we'd do many days on the surface with sea state Oh Dear. I still regret handing a pink pill to the sonar tech who was too far gone for it. For other spaces:"Why'd you secure that watch?" "Well, he was in the fetal position and vomiting every six minutes..."
James my particular problem with LCS2 is the sharp transition to the sponsons. An escort needs to be able to keep station on its charge in all but the most extreme weather conditions. If LCS2 needs to be hove to in rough weather it will be unsuitable for escort and will need planform modifications. As for LCS1 the performance characteristics limit its utility as an escort. For long distances LCS1 can either sprint or walk, an escort needs to be able to jog. As for those who claim that we no longer need escorts, so far history has proven them wrong.
<span>Depends upon whom you decide to stay with.</span>
Ahhhhhhh.....Paul F Foster DD964 on her last deployment in 2002 before decommissioning. Tried to UNREP from USNS Rappahannock (T-AO-204) in the Sea of Japan and was told to breakaway. I remember holding on for dear life in my rack during that turn. BM1 later told me that they were scared sh!tless due to RAPs distance to the ship just before they were told to secure and get below.
when the knoxs' were built the asbeostos insulation allowed a certain amount of shoulder room on the catwalks in the engineering spaces. when we tok the asbestos out and replaced it with politically correct stuff the crews could hardly walk through the spaces because the new stuff had to be a lot thicker to do the job.....
C
in the later sixties i stood gangway watch on the tender that the radford was tied up to at rivera pier in subic bay the phillipines. it was a quiet sunday morning with "water like glass". poor old radford was still doing 7 degree rolls while tied up to the tender. renshaw was tied up outboard of her and they were banging together terribly.
c
<span>Yes but that is a sail boat all the propulsion comes from the top and the 3 hulls are all equal really</span>
<span></span>
<span>That doesn't matter so much as the angle of diminishing stability does....</span>
<span></span>
<span>Pitchpoling an ama...</span>
<span></span>
<span>And the amount of working the transverse members of a multihull endure in a seaway....</span>
<span></span>
<span>During a recent inspection of General Dynamics' [GD] Littoral Combat Ship (LCS), bowing was discovered in the transverse beams that support the ship's flight deck, according to the Navy.
The Navy late yesterday released the following statement: "Recently, Navy Supervisor of Shipbuilding (SUPSHIP) personnel observed various degrees of bowing in the transverse beams that support the flight deck on LCS-2. A Navy/Industry team is reviewing the cause of these deflections, verifying that the ship structure is stable, and developing any corrective actions that might be required. The cost and schedule impact will be determined upon completion of the Navy/industry review." </span>
<span></span>
My last two ships were the AWR followed by a west coast DDG. I'd take Radford any day and twice on Sunday and that's having been on her during the Feb '99
collision and aftermath.
I would take a SPRU-CAN over the early DDGs. Did not have the opportunity to ride any of the Flight IIs. Barry, Burke, Stout, Mitscher, Ramage were all the ones that I got to ride and inspect. I think the CPS systems just made me feel claustrophobic (must have been those airlocks).
While I enjoyed my squadron tour ... loved getting back to ENTERPRISE. Now that is a great piece of engineering and a great subject to talk about on the porch.
Now, for we who took to sea in the Gearing class DD's the sad stories of giant Sprucans seem . . .
Was wonderin' when somebody was going to bring that up... 8-)
Kinda like Brownshoes lamenting the "small" decks of the Forrestals....
But E1, even the Gearings were once considered "giant" in their own right too.
Youb nailed it Scott...
Except that here we are in 2012 and IOC is exactly when????
An old retired reserve Navy Captain I am fond of told me that, as a young FC, he took grief for being assigned to a Fletcher, because in the late '40s there were still significant numbers of destroyer sailors who crossed the Atlantic and Pacific on flush-deck four-pipers.
One has to imagine those guys riding the flush-deckers caught grief from the guys who escorted convoys in WWI on the 800-tonners....
Sid, assuming the Navy's current schedule is met, IOC for DDG-1000 is now slated for 2016 -- thirteen years after the DD(X) / DDG-1000 incarnation of the Zumwalt Class program officially began in 2003. Compare that with fourteen years to IOC for the F/A-22, and we see that my speculative predictions for a significant cost overrun in the Zumwalt Class development effort still hold water six years after I first made those predictions in the summer of 2005.
Whether the US Navy owns up to the Zumwalt's inevitable cost growth issues in a timely manner, as these cost overruns are occuring, is something yet to be seen. However, as an accounting trick, the Navy could very well choose to declare IOC early, thus resetting the programmatic R&D dollar counter to zero.
Nevertheless, regardless of when IOC is offically declared, I still expect the final price tag for DDG-1000's R&D effort to be in the range of $25 to $30 billion dollars before the design configurations of the hull, the propulsion plant, the damage control systems, the embarked weapons systems, and especially the various automation software/firmware/hardware systems reach some rational measure of design stability.
What is of great concern now is that a move is afoot, apparently with the assistance of the GAO, to cancel DDG-51 Flight III and to build more DDG-1000s beyond the three now programmed. Assuming that serious seakeeping issues do in fact emerge with the Zumwalt's tumblehome hullform once the first hull is actually splashed, it is difficult to believe that those kinds of issues could be properly solved without a very expensive and very time consuming redesign of the DDG-1000's hull -- if such fixes were even possible at all, regardless of how much money was being spent.
One other comment .... Suppose in our mind's eye we envision the first DDG-1000 punching through the same kinds of waves that we see in Cdr. Salamander's photo, with significant volumes of water flowing past the wave piercing bow and out along the length of the forward deck. Suppose also that a combat engagement requiring the use of the Peripheral VLS commences. Would the CO dare risk opening the PVLS silo doors under those kinds of sea conditions?
Oh, Yeah! Song of the High Seas!
The photo and the sea stories below took me back. I returned to Newport from the Med in weather like this back in Jan. '89. High point was having to shut down the boilers and go DIW while replacing a valve in the burner atomization line so we could be ready for our "surprise OPPE" three days later. Max roll was 46 degrees.
Irony was that the weather got so bad that the PEB couldn't get over to us to do the inspection. After my Commodore was almost slammed into helo control tower while being whinched off another FF they decided to head for the largest deck available (the AD) where the CO volunteered to take his OPPE early.
Let me add that the UNREP the day the group broke up was "challenging".
I wonder what the test depth of the bosun locker is....
Wait...............i didnt think aluminum was supposed to bend.....
During heavy weather my first CO liked to hang around in CIC smoking those big, green Filipino cigars.
Or on a FLOWER.
Jeez, based on the size of the new "destroyers" battleship sailors from the USS Texas (BB-35) could compare sea keeping notes . . .
Badger, I toured HMCS SACKVILLE once when the ship was in Halifax. When the former corvette sailors who were answering questions found out I was CO of the visiting US ship they took me and one of my JOs to the wardroom (closed to most visitors) for a couple of beers and sea stories. I told them that they'd done a good job of restoring the ship and one of them answered "Yes...pretty good, but to be realistic you'd have to have water sloshing around in the berthing spaces and puke everywhere.
CGC Bear maiden voyage...there was a MK75 underneath all that water. Crushed the gun port shield and left an awful lot of water.
One more for perspective. 270' and nearly half of it submerged.
I have read that you weren't really at sea in a corvette, until there were several inches sloshing around the berthing spaces. A couple of weeks ago, I looked up my favorite corvette, with perhaps the most wonderful name we ever gave a ship, USS TEMPTRESS. According to Paul Silverstones US Fleet of WWII, the reverse lend lease corvettes were COAL FIRED! How would you like to stoke by hand in weather like that? I can only hope Silverstone was wrong!
When the RN started taking BUCKLEYs and EVARTS class DEs they tore out the bunks and put in hammocks. They also took out the ice cream machine for some reason.
I haven't checked in here for a while since I thought it was getting boring, but the last several posts are good quality so I guess I'll add you back to my daily bloglist. You deserve it my friend :)
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