Thursday, November 17, 2011

Funny day #OWS picked, 17 NOV ...


There are no accidents in politics. Especially on the far left.
Are the protests on November 17 going to ratchet up the civil disobedience to show that eviction hasn’t weakened protesters’ resolve, or an opportunity to demonstrate a broad post-encampment solidarity across the country? Depends on who you ask.

The national day of action was planned before Mayor Bloomberg initiated a late-night clearance of Zuccotti Park, but the confrontation has rewritten the script for the national day of Occupy protests scheduled for November 17, or #N17 as it’s known on Twitter. Organized labor, progressive activist groups like MoveOn are encouraging participation in local demonstrations on Thursday, but their focus, and the militancy of their tactics, vary widely.

Here in New York, the day will be a combination of envelope-pushing direct actions and mass demonstrations.

"It's an opportunity to come out and for people to demonstrate their support for an economic justice movement in whatever way they feel comfortable," Han Shan, an organizer with Occupy Wall Street, said of the plans to mark the two-month anniversary of the protests.
17 NOV sound familiar? It should.
“Mr. Welch?” a man asked in Greek.

The CIA station chief opened the car door. He stood for a second and squinted at the figure in the shadows. Then came three shots from a .45-caliber pistol, one of which tore into Richard Welch’s heart.

It was the bloody birth of the November 17 terrorist group.

“He got out of the car because he thought it was a friend,” said Welch’s widow, Cristina. “I rushed to him. But he was gone.”

The masked killer and two accomplices, who blocked Welch’s car on the way home from a Christmas party the night of Dec. 23, 1975, sped away without a trace.

And that’s how it remains, a quarter of a century later.

A Quiet Revolution

There have been no arrests or firm leads during a generation of bombings, rocket attacks and shootings that have killed 22 people, including three American officials: Welch, Navy Capt. George Tsantes in 1983 and defense attache Capt. William Nordeen in 1988.
Who were "17 November?"
Revolutionary Organization 17 November - a Marxist-Leninist terrorist organization in Greece that is violently opposed to imperialism and capitalism and NATO and the United States; an active terrorist group during the 1980s.


Smells the same. Hopefully these people are too disorganized to start killing down the road ... but at least we have been warned who they aspire to be if they do.


Hat tip Larry.

112 comments:

LT Dan said...

Sal,

I've been following your blog for about 6 months now. I try to follow a wide spectrum of naval thinkers, and you come up because you're so prolific. I'll be upfront- I don't always agree with you, although I share your distaste for the diversity industry and for the duplicitous ways of politicians. I appreciate the way you seem to have faith in young people like myself to do the right thing. However, even if I don't fully agree with the Occupy Wall Street message, I like it when people, especially my often-politically-apathetic cohort, feel strongly enough about something to put this kind of effort into it. I strongly disagree with your implication that they are deliberately referring to the Greek Nov 17 terrorist organization for several reasons:

1) The old far left is dead. Young people could care less about Maoism and the revolution. Two generations too late for that nonsense. Some themes cross a spectrum of political movements, but none of these dudes are nascent Che Guevaras.
2) Look at any recent survey of knowledge of world history by Americans. How many people out of a thousand are going to have any idea of what Nov 17 is? I think most people in my generation are probably not aware of any of the major communist terrorist groups of the cold war, including Nov 17, Black September, Baider-Meinhof, etc. See point 1)
3) Most simply, there are only 365.25 days in a year. Things are going to fall on the same day. This protest happening on Nov 17 is no more sinister than anything else happening on Nov 17 this year. Especially when they offer the completely believable explanation of it being the two month anniversary of the protests; it would have taken some really deep planning to start the protests on Sep 17 just so they could have the two month anniversary to line up with a relatively obscure Greek terrorist group.

These kids' right to civil disobedience is one of the rights I'm serving to protect. Let's not sell it short with a conspiracy theory.

V/r
LT Dan

Anonymous said...

I've seen a number of highly active Anarchists participate in the OWS protests in my city. The organizers are likely very well versed in Communist theory and history.

The popularity of Che after his death is extreme. People do not remember him as the evil executioner in Castro's jail or his attempting to use mentally ill people as soldiers. They only remember a highly dramatic photo of him taken by a fellow traveller. The myth of popular and justified revolution is strong among the radical element of society and symbolism means a lot to people in that narcissistic dream.

The Far Left is no longer a serious intellectual force but it is returning as an emotional force. The less people have to deal with the visible consequences of a policy, the less cautious they are going to be. History is a guide but how many kids learn about castro's goons putting bombs in movie theatres?

I think we will have to worry about a Communist or Anarchist terrorist group arising from this. It only takes a few scumbags, a charismatic and non-visibly insame leader, and a few houshold items. We have been very lucky so far but I don't trust in luck when stupidity is a factor.

ivan0026 said...

That was me.

MR T's Haircut said...

umm Dan, this is more than lip service about defending their right to protest blah blah .. they cross the line when they make violence against the rule of law.

The USEFUL IDIOTS to quote Marx and Lenin dont need to know history and the significance of November 17th, they only have to do what the Unions and the Socialists tell them. 

Their point is made time to move on..  I didnt serve to defend their right to assault my civilization, my culture, and my property. 

Hitler was underestimated also. 

ewok40k said...

One thing, the group in Greece itself has somewhat been risen from the dead and staged a few bombings lately :
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/02/athens-mail-bombs-explode_n_777587.html
quote:
Radical groups have long been active in Greece. After a few years of relative quiet, such groups stepped up attacks following riots that hit Greek cities in December 2008, sparked by the deadly police shooting of a teenager in Athens.
Four people have been killed in bombings or shooting attacks since 2009.

The problem with the ideas, good or bad alike, is that as they are immaterial, they can't be destroyed, and might reappear after decades of slumber - see democratic opposition in the former soviet bloc for example of good idea no amount of opression could erase, and n-th reincarnation of the KKK for example of bad ideas never dying.

sid said...

No good pieces of crap.

sid said...

Lest we forget who in this next election cycle... and what ... we have occupying 1600 Pennsylvania these days.

Those are his peeps that he feels the most affinity to.

habap said...

LT Dan, you really ought to check out http://zombietime.com/ to see how pervasive the literal communists have been in Berkeley and San Francisco. Maoism is alive and well there and in the rest of OWS (check the "libraries" at the Occupy camps). So, the old far left is not dead.

As to whether Nov 17 means anything to most of them - it doesn't have to. I think that some of the organizers were aware of the date and chuckled that the two-month anniversary happened to be the same. That is, I don't think they planned it in advance, but when they realized the hidden meaning of the date, they couldn't resist acting. After all, did they march anywhere on Oct 17?

cdrsalamander said...

LT Dan,

I'm sorry - but you are wrong.  I am afraid that you are "feeling, believing, hoping, thinking" and not "knowing."  I highly recommend that if you have not visited in person, that you just go over to youtube and see the videos people have taken walking through and listing to speeches in the Occupy protests; especially in NYC, Oakland, & Portland. 

The core and the inspiration for OWS is all the old left.  Heck, the kernal that started this came from an anarchist magazine for goodness sake.  Pictures of Che at thick in these places, and you cannot swing a dead kulak without hitting a table with Socialist, Communist or anarchist literature.  And the speaches?  

I'm sorry; I wish OWS was what you state - but it isn't.  You have to deal with OWS as it is - not as you wish it to be.  As for your paragraphs - I'll reply in kind.

I used to be of the far left.  They/we know our history VERY well; especially Movement leaders.  They know all the dates, leaders, organizations - what they did right, what they did wrong.  Laugh if you want - but these people are smart and driven. They know their history, even if you don't.  They also know how to use useful idiots and take advantage of Popular Front organizations.

Also Dan, I would suggest you review your Bill of Rights.  Heck, for now lets stick with #1; "<span>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.</span>"

You have the right to peaceably assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances.  You do not have a right for civil disobedience. You can do it - but you have to be willing to accept the consequences.

LT Dan; you sound like you have a kind heart - but you have a lot more homework to do before you can effectively argue this topic.

Byron said...

Lt. Dan: Hope is not an OPPLAN.

NYdan said...

Good info on November 17 at:
http://www.cfr.org/greece/november-17-revolutionary-peoples-struggle-revolutionary-struggle-greece-leftists/p9275
OWS was a well-planned event Last August, a friend of mine received a planning preview in Hamburg, Germany...

Kristen said...

I am absolutely amazed at how tone deaf the Democrats are to come out in support of these protestors.  I think that they're set to lose big next November anyway, but the Occupy crazies around the country are going to be an additional anvil around the ankle as the Democrats go off the cliff.

Anonymous said...

Stick to naval topics. That's why I come here.

SouthernAP said...

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain. - John Adams:Letter to friend as Vice President circa 1800

Byron said...

When you're name is "CDR Salamander" and you spend a lot of time finding content for a very good blog, you can bitch about topics. Since you don't, it's stay and wait till you see something that interests you or go somewhere else and read their blog.

Only foolish boy lecture schoolmaster and owner of Front Porch on what he say...

LT B said...

The warrant I work with said he hopes it does go to an anarchistic hell so he can sit up on his roof and start picking these guys off with his rifle. 

Anonymous said...

Right, I'll just file this under "conspiracy theories."

LT B said...

Does Far Left Phib actually equal ROTC Midshipman chasing Bohemian, bi-curious, patchouli smelling, nubile college girls?  Laying down a load to attract the chick w/ the flower in her hair is not necessarily far left.  ;)

MR T's Haircut said...

Sounds like a typical Warrant...

MR T's Haircut said...

Guest, Shut up Fool!

Anonymous said...

From such an intelligent response I see that you are well-qualified to call me a fool.

And this is not like any other number of conspiracy theories because...

Actus Rhesus said...

I'm chalking it up less to conspiracy and more to comedic irony.

Actus Rhesus said...

Sal,

the anonymous guest who was too lazy to even come up with a damn user handle demands you entertain him in accordance with his wishes.

Get on that, pronto.

Anonymous said...

Actus, another good response that attacks me but in no way addresses my point.

Anonymous said...

Now that I'll buy.

AW1 Tim said...

It's his front porch. He can post about whatever he damned well pleases. =-X

habap said...

Since September 17th was not a date chosen spontaneously on the spur of the moment and was, in fact, planned far in advance by AdBusters, it is entirely possible that they chose it with the thought in mind that November 17 would be the two-month anniversary.

A Saturday in mid-September was a good choice. August could easily be too hot and conflict with too many vacations. College kids, especially freshmen, would be on campus and ready to flex their freedom from adult supervision. It would not yet be cold or rainy, so they had time to get everyone committed before one rainy would flush the movement.

Now, it has gone on far longer than I imagined. I expected a couple of weeks, at most, but wacky as they may be, they are dedicated. I think they thought it would be far larger, though and that if the dates mattered to them at all, that they thought November would be when they would be delivering the tipping point.

I think they were wise to avoid explicitly stating their "one demand" and not to publish any list of demands themselves, so they can keep the umbrella organization of nutbags they've gathered together. Too many of their people disagree fervently with at least one other faction for them to dare limiting themselves to written demands.

Hopefully, nothing happens when I drive downtown in DC today, as I have a meeting I have to get to....

sid said...

Aren't those the pics of two assasinated naval officers up there in the post?

Looks naval related to me.

Are you blind guest?

LT B said...

I tend to find them quite funny and very un-PC.  I asked him how he was going to handle being a civilian where he would have to watch his mouth.  "Dude, I can effing handle myself in effing public.  WTF?!"  :)

SouthernAP said...

Politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with bloodshed - Mao Tse-Tung
<span><span></span></span>
<span><span>Politics is the womb in which war develops.- Carl Von Clausewitz</span></span>
<span><span><span></span></span></span>

cdrsalamander said...

I just don't think they are that ignorant.  This isn't a Judean People's Front vs the People's Front of Judea gaggle.

These are the people who still argue Stalin vs Trotsky vs Beria until 4am for goodness sake.  If they never made the connection to 17 NOV - well - that is just pathetic.

Neo-Nazis would never "forget" 19 APR.  Neo-Communists don't "forget" 17 NOV. 

Again - if so they are so very pathetic and should be banned from ever wearing anything Che again.

cdrsalamander said...

Sid gets it.  Gold Star Happy face to you!

Guest gets the dunce cap .... again.

C-dore 14 said...

Having watched these kind of left wing causes and protests for many years I've concluded that there is nothing inadvertent about the dates associated with them.  The first "Earth Day Teach-in" in the US was held on April 22, 1970 (back before environmental activism became a mainstream thing), which is, coinicdentally, Lenin's birthday.  Yeah, the extreme right does it too with April 20 being popular.

Those who doubt the survival and involvement of the Old Left in the OWS protests need only look at the photo of the 84 year old woman, Dorli Rainey, who was pepper-sprayed during an Occupy Seattle protest.  The photo has gone viral in recent days as "the face of the movement".  Ms. Rainey is a long-time activist for Leftist causes and is well known in the Seattle area.  Her blog has the tag line "Change Begins in the Streets" which should ring familiar to folks, like me, who came of age in the late 1960s.

SouthernAP said...

It is sad that all the fish wrappers in our region are using Ms. Rainey as the most current celebritry for what is supposedly all wrong with the SPD. They completely forget how much Seattle looked like a bag of arse for letting all those proto-OWS types run while during the World Trade Organization visit in 1999.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

<span>Laying down a load to attract the chick w/ the flower in her hair is not necessarily far left.</span>

Sounds like the voice of experience, that.  8-)

C-dore 14 said...

"Mayor Mike's" apologizing to her was a nice (and typically Seattle) touch.

MR T's Haircut said...

She got sprayed as a consequence to her personal decision to be there.  Like Forrest Gump Says "Stupid is as Stupid Does..."

MR T's Haircut said...

C-dore,
Concur.  This is being orchestrated by the left.  one way to foment "support" for the current administration and get some "blooding" before the next election cycle... 

MR T's Haircut said...

SAP,

the Founders took a long view and knew the new republic would require care and feeding.  They were wise and prescient.  The idiots in Congress, D and R have some learnin to do...

my Kingdom for a Jefferson, Mason, Henry, or Adams.

MR T's Haircut said...

umm Guest, I count you among the Useful Idiots. 

MR T's Haircut said...

Guest, you have made NO point, just tracked mud across the porch and generally stunk the joint up...

Aubrey said...

I tried Demorat once, but I didn't inhale...

MR T's Haircut said...

Sid, he may be blind, Momma said that would happen if...

Grumpy Old Ham said...

Indeed, but they seem to be headed toward anointment as "Person of the Year":

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2098471_2098928_2098929,00.html

Then again, given some of the recent "honorees", I'm really not surprised...

MR T's Haircut said...

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Controversial-Professor-Bill-Ayers-Speaks-With-Occupy-Chicago-Protestors--134045388.html?dr

Looks like the facts support your observation C-dore...

SouthernAP said...

MTH,

There is nothing wrong with giving someone a voice in my honest opinion. Even though that claim to belong to the Marxist, Leninist, Trotskyist, or any other political movement. They should be out in the open within the full glare of sunlight. Just don't lie about what your beliefs are really about and be willing to stand and defend your beliefs in the public square. Otherwise your a hypocrite and not honorable to stand by your beliefs or commitments.

I am also a full believer that there are those in politics who should study how to bring extreme violence against others in the form of military actions. As should any military officer should study the secret inner workings of politics and party bosses. The primary reasons is to understand how they get themselves into the place between rock and hard place. They should also understand potentially how to extract themselves. I think that with some of that understanding it could change things for a better.

AW1 Tim said...

Mao also said "Political power grows from the barrel of a gun".

MR T's Haircut said...

This is going to be more and more prevelant int he future me thinks...   Culture, Entitlements, hmm Diversity results?  No longer homogeneous.

James said...

Yes also helps when you contantly push people towards them through BS teaching and shouting down those who have contrary opinions.

I've known a couple people that went from being neutral to Actucal racist because they just didnt seem to care what they said. Called em racist enough to make them that way. Sad really.

James said...

They are both idiots. We the Peoples Judean Front know this.

LT B said...

Didn't the guest see his previous post about technology?  That photo was damned entertaining. 

LT B said...

I have no idea what you are talking about.  I can, however, say that I have NEVER chased a patchoulli be-splashed hippy chick.  I typically went for the athletic girls. 

ExNFO said...

LT Dan: Hate to pile on, but I made the connection when I saw a professionally printed poster.  I had friends in country when it happened.  I spent time there in the mid-1990s.  That date was a concern.

You are naive to think that 1) these protests just materialized from the ether and 2) there isn't a great deal of cross-pollenization between the various union/socialist/marxist groups involved in the occupy events in the major cities.  I'm not talking about Zoe and Phillip with their iMacs and coffeehouse angst.  Think of those who show up as professional agitators at the global financial conferences.  Think of union heavies who actually do believe in "knocking heads." 

The true believers pay attention to dates.  You know, never let the anniversary of a victory or affront go to waste.

cdrsalamander said...

Splitter!

Surfcaster said...

I have moved back right to fiercely independent. Vote mostly R unless the D is very good and the R is an a$$clown. Happens you know.

Here in the littlest state, people have the ability to pull a lever and for a party ticket. That one thing probably has more to do with our crappy elections here than any other thing (well, 'cept nearly everyone having a family member working for the state somewhere).

C-dore 14 said...

BTW, the use of phrases like "Day of Action" is another "tipper" that the Old Left has not faded from the scene.

Surfcaster said...

As for conspiracies, perhaps it has nothing to do about nothing. But this is the porch and you have stepped up to the bar and there is now a frosty pint in front of you, please engage in the conversation. If you don't agree, argue your points but please don'tslam the host.

Would have been a lot more too if they had the chance. Bobby's Bar got Sgt Hulka'd at one point as well as one or two others by these guys IIRC.

My father spent a fair amount of time at Bob's a couple days per month from 83-86. Could have been real personal.

If I dig real hard I may even find my old Bobby's Tshirt somewhere.

BMG, RAF, N17 - piss on 'em all.

C-dore 14 said...

@Surfcaster, Isn't the RI State Motto "Vote Early and Often"?  It seemed to be the case when I lived there.

C-dore 14 said...

@MTH, I just heard her on a local radio commentary show where she admitted that this wasn't the first time she'd been pepper sprayed.  The last time was during the WTO "protest" in '99 (most of the community referred to it as the WTO Riot).  In both cases she said that she "wasn't doing anything" when it happened.

Anonymous said...

I guess my problem is with this comment: "<span>Hopefully these people are too disorganized to start killing down the road ... but at least we have been warned who they aspire to be if they do." </span>

There are crazies in every bunch. Heck, if you get that many people together there are bound to be some idiots, no matter what political party you're talking about. But to me, the great majority of these people have no wish to take up arms, only to see justice served.

The main issue these people are putting forward is that the pampered 1% (for example, Sen. McCain) keep wanting to take money from the hard working rest of us (for example, by raising TriCare fees and cutting military retirement). That's the issue that a lot of people are feeling throughout the country and it applies to both parties, Democrats as well as Republicans. Both parties are indebted to their political contributors and put their needs before the people and that's the reason for the waste, fraud and abuse on everything from the high price of naval shipbuilding to the skyrocketing costs of prescription drugs.

Calling them all Communists is an old and proven technique to discredit their movement, but it doesn't address the underlying problems that continue to exist.

Anonymous said...

I'd also add that at no point has the Senator from Arizona suggested reducing the monumental benefits that Congress receives while he advocates taking the earned benefits from those of us who willingly went into harm's way offering our lives if need be on behalf of our great nation.

James said...

The problem isn't the ones who Want to just make things better (stop the fraud, corruption etc) its the ones who came after. THEY want that. And the people they are being proped up by ARE the people who bath in the corruption.

They WILL be used. If you don't stand for something and have a clear image of who is incharge then your going to be used by the people you hate.

First came the ones who wanted change. Then the angry socialist, then the anarchist, then the communist, Then come the homeless.

The problem we have isn't What they are doing.

Protesting Is FINE, great do it! Thats part of a democratic republic. Taking over a part of the city starting riots and demanding to take over while upping the crime in the area including murder and Rape. Oh and lets not forget the disease problems (Name one they are probably there) or the drugs.

Point is they aren't doing this the right way. Look at the tea party. Get the permissions, get together and go be peaceful and do your thing. Pick up the trash and go home.

THAT is what ya do this crap is BS.

James said...

In the words of John Cleese "Fuck off!!!"

Sigh great movie.

James said...

WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US!

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Hey, guest.  I see the hammer and sickle, "Socialism NOW!"-themed placards, and Che Guevara/Mao t-shirts in large numbers in the crowds.   When interviewed, they espouse forcible redistribution of the wealth, and have as a very premise the evils of capitalism and the economic theories of the COMINTERN. 

Calling them Communists is an accurate summation of their goals and values.  They see self-interest and private property as one of those "underlying problems", and if you listen carefully, they believe the role of the Federal Government in this country should increasingly be the seizure of wealth from law-abiding citizens for distribution to the "poor and disadvantaged". 

They discredit their movement with their demands for things like free college, open borders, socialized medicine, and other half-baked ideas that will crush the earners and feather the nests of the takers. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Ahhh, Buddy Cianci. 

Surfcaster said...

The Aquaduct!

Surfcaster said...

So while a bunch of unruly folks were practicing "Civil Disobedience" tonight I will counter that I had a great group of kids this evening getting their advancements and achievements in our Cub Scout Pack. Fine young lads they are on the path into fine young men.

cdrsalamander said...

Guest.  In case you made the mistake and don't follow me on Facebook - please watch this and then come back.  Help with iPad 2's for the masses meme and how private and personal property is different.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided

Anonymous said...

CDR Sal, thanks for sharing that. And thanks for treating this "Guest" like a "guest." I appreciate the hospitality and decorum that you, James and Surfcaster have shown me as a guest on your front porch even though I voiced a disagreement. I think we can all agree that having a respectful discussion is much better than calling someone names like "fool" or "useful idiot."

Although I'm a long-time reader, today is the first time I've posted so I didn't see the need in creating a screen name for one replying to one post. But if I have anything constructive to add in the future, I will logo on and pull up a chair.

Thanks,
Your Guest

The Usual Suspect said...

<span>Yeah, the old lady looked like she had a giant milk moustache after taking a blast of pepper spray.  She had it coming just like the old protester out at Bangor.  You can see the professional left's fingerprints all over this "spontaneous" movement.  Nothing is by accident with these folks. Nothing.</span>

cdrsalamander said...

Guest,
Pick some quirky name and join in.  We can play rough and throw an elbow now and then - but if we know you by a regular name - we are less likely to mistake you for the 80% of other "Guests" who are mostly trolls who dump and run without even reading the posts.

As a regular reader, you know you don't have to agree with me. I don't have the right answer and neither does anyone else here - but if we chat inside a little creative friction, we may get close together.

Have a sense of humor, thicken the skin, and jump in.  You and your ideas are always welcome ... just think of something besides "Guest" to call yourself.

Cheers!

Actus Rhesus said...

you had a point? all I saw was you whining about how you come here to read about the navy.

Grandpa Bluewater said...

No.  Don't like it, don't come.


Well....
Bye.

C-dore 14 said...

TUS, From what I heard her say today I suspect she's hung out with the Plowshares crowd out at Bangor too.  BTW, that IS milk.  Apparently they use it to treat the effects of pepper spray.

MR T's Haircut said...

hey Guest.. this is directed to you...

Dont try to come in and insult the audience by demanding the host "stick to naval topics" then when callled on your insult by the rest of us, try an passive aggressive whine about how gracious the host is and then try to patronize us by asking for a "respectful" discussion.   

I dont take to condescention very well.

your first pass sounded like a troll. 

quit whining

MR T's Haircut said...

Got Milk?

Stu said...

<span>A couple of observations (I apologize if these have been made already but I didn't see them.)  
 
-Compared to the rest of the World, we here in the United States are all part of the 1%.  Something for the OWS crowd to contemplate when throwing about all of their rhetoric.
 
-I actually went down to our local bunch of OWS folks that were camping out in the city because I wanted to talk to them and hear what they had to say.  I didn't see any of the crazies and I found the group I talked with to be fairly well informed.  Now I realize I only had a small sample in terms of the whole movement but none of them advocated communism with a few actually being small business owners.  That being said, I am confident that there are communists in this movement.  However, it seems to me that the OWS take issue with Big Business having too much influence within the government while the Tea Party seems to take issue with Big Government having too much influence over corporations.  I say they are both correct but simply attacking the problem from different flanks as Big Government and Big Business are simply in cahoots and playing different political factions off on each other.    
 
So indeed, there is a unruly, dirty, seedy and communist element within the OWS movement but there are some folks involved that we should be interacting with.  I can say that I had the group I talked with totally reconsidering Obamacare when I left as I pointed out that in reality it is nothing but a boon for Big Business in the long run (Beware the Healthcare Industrial Complex).</span>

Surfcaster said...

Sadly he is one of the more honest corrupt politicians we have. Chafee OTH is too dumb to be corrupted.

Andre from Sacto said...

<p><span><span>Gee...why did we invade Iraq and waste billions upon billions of dollars?<span>  </span>Oh yea, bad intelligence.<span>  </span>On full display here.</span></span></p>

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Andre, pulled your head out of the sand (or some other dark place) to take the time for a drive-by troll session? 

What is it about the comments that you are disputing?  Or haven't you thought that far ahead?

Byron said...

Is it the same "Guest"?

C-dore 14 said...

@URR, Hey, at least his first felony conviction had nothing to do with politics.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

True dat!  You know he has his own radio show still, right?  Sometimes Ray Patriarca's kid (Ray-Ray) calls in.  Having grown up next to it, that is no end of amusement for me!

cdrsalamander said...

Squirrel<span>!</span>

PK said...

i worked for and stood watch with a number of wwII pre PC warrents.

made chiefs (the backbone of the navy don't you know) look like weinies.

C

PK said...

SAP:

while you're at it, encourage every union member you see, hear from, or speak to, to enquire of their union officials as to just what the state of their unions finances are in detail.

this question has a tendancy to terminate converstions rapidly.

C

PK said...

after a lifetime of reading (i first learned the art 65 years ago) i seem to remember, although i can't quote it, that Che was such a military fumbler that the smart guys in the pentagon and cia wanted him to continue his military excursions as he was busily killing off a large fraction of cuba's competent military.

the capture of him and subsequent execution for running drugs was in error (possibly pressed by good old Feeeeedel in order to preserve his military) but could not be undone by the "back room bunch" in time to keep him in action.

for those interested in such things one might contrast the numbers of troops he took to africa against the count of who he brought home with him.

Sean said...

Other than the roads, of course....

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Oh come on. 

If they had it their way, in an emergency we would have to dial IX I I!

SouthernAP said...

PK,

I have engaged with some of my relatives who are union members (primarly of the Teachers or Union of Assoication of Plumber and Fitters) to ask about finances of the union and have the union describe in detail where that dollar in the dues goes. I have done so in front of local bosses and even been threatened by some others of rank/file or leadership of said unions for asking of the sunlight to shine in while at social settings. My best retort was to a big ol'burly bastard of a man who had me by about a full foot in height and by at least a hundred pounds in weight. This "gentleman" was asking why a snot nosed kid (I was 23 at the time) who didn't know nothing about nothing was asking how an honest man spent his honest earned dollar towards a fraternal organization. I then told this "gentleman" that if he felt what I do in the US Navy was not honest work. I told him that I get to spend time on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier running around making sure that airplanes successfuly leave the front end and then land on the blunt end. For that work that I do I get paid a third of what the International Aircraft Machinists ask for working at Delta or United in the same hours. I also mentioned to this man that I also pay twice what IAM union members do for my med/dental bennies. Finally I closed out that I do twice as much community service as I had seen from any union group. Everything from going into a neighborhood orphanage overseas to clean up/fix up/improve the building on my time to going into my local community to act as free tutors or even post emergancy relief efforts helping to pass out goods or doing basic upkeep. I also mentioned that I belong to a fraternal organization that does more for its members and keeps every last dime it earns to spend on its members. That is the Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society. They don't lobby a politician for money to come to them. I did this completely in a calm tone while holding my vodka martini and then threw out a thing that as a Taxpayer I am entitled by law to request copies of the budget to see line by line how a dollar is spent, I also mentioned some other groups I belong to (such as the Friends of a Museum and Tailhook) where the by-laws entitled me to do almost the same thing. Does his union authorize the same?
By the time this ended the whole room got quiet and my relatives who initally where totally embarassed by my actions told me later, that I had instigated a minor revolt in that local which lead to the bosses and their cronies to be overthrown the next cycle.

AW1 Tim said...

Don't forget the sewers.

Surfcaster said...

Yawn.

C-dore 14 said...

@URR, Didn't know that he still had the radio show.  I do remember that "Junior" Patriarca was demoted from "Boss" to "Soldier" after the FBI taped an initiation at one of their "safe houses" about 20 years ago.

Anonymous said...

good one sap, good one.

C

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Yeah, Junior was lucky he didn't get two in the hat.

C-dore 14 said...

Sean, They were still using one of those roads outside of Naples when I lived there.

Surfcaster said...

Yes, his own show. Fairly entertaining - especially the kicking on Cicilline (speaking of corrupt Rho Dyslundahs). He had a show before, mayored up and started making Pasta sauce, wound up in the klink, and got the radio gig upon exit. Typical RI (I am not from though I've been here 10 years now).

URR - Where are you from Woostah area?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Southa Wisstah.  Right on the Rho-Dyland boahdah. 

West of Rt 128, which, according to all of Boston Maggie's maps, is labeled "The rest of the country", though older maps have the margin annotation "Monsters be there".

Casey Tompkins said...

No doubt athletic and flexible... ;)

Casey Tompkins said...

<span>You know, never let the anniversary of a victory or affront go to waste.</span>

Or a crisis, no?

Casey Tompkins said...

+100.

Casey Tompkins said...

Byron, you know what they say about the big dogs, and the Front Porch. :)

Casey Tompkins said...

Um... Guest? Did you actually read, and comprehend, T's handle before you commented? {he says, in an academically distinterested way}

Casey Tompkins said...

Great Tombstone reference.

Casey Tompkins said...

And the wine... {various mutters of agreement}

C-dore 14 said...

@Surfcaster, Don't forget that he was also mayor of Providence before his first stint on the radio but had to resign after being convicted of assaulting a guy whom Cianci thought was having an affair with his first wife.  I always thought that Buddy was far more interesting than most of the other politicians up there.

august said...

The last thing I need before Thanksgiving -- another reason why my hometown stinks.

Kay said...

the disruptions taking place were planned long in advance of them happening.  these are paid idiots who know nothing, do nothing and do anything they are told for a couple bucks and lots of party time and drugs.   Shame on our president for encouraging this kind of behavior and the people who provide the money to feed and support the lemmings.  God help them!

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