Tuesday, September 07, 2010

Severn SITREP

Sigh.



I think this tells us a lot more about the United States Naval Academy and what it has not done in the last couple of years than it does about these two MIDN.

After a couple of years at Annapolis - has the Academy failed this bad to explain to these future leaders where they are and the fact that they are the stewards of their institution's image?

If this was taken at spring break or at a house party some place - no big deal. What is important here is location and context.

Well - I'll let you hash it out in comments - just know that in a couple of years - here's you new DivO; product of what we sell to the taxpayers as one of our most rigorous academic and leadership building institutions.

Supe - you've got your hands full. Good luck.
Oh, don't bother ordering them to take the video down. Already, a few dozen people and I have downloaded it using keepvid.
UPDATE: As expected, if it makes it to CDRSalamander - it gets pulled by lunch. Here is the questions I have for you - I have the video: should I repost it on YouTube? I'll start the comment - make your responses there.
UPDATE II - Electric Boogaloo: OK, here is the compromise. Over the afternoon and evening I have had the chance to talk to a few folks associated with Annapolis on this topic. By a wide margin, they are pro-repost.

I am of two minds of this. The Blogg'r in me thinks: after all, it was up for months in a public space by the author and was only taken down when it was brought to a much wider audience. This was done by adults in full knowledge of what they were doing.

The retired CDR in me says: point made - move on.

However we have another thing going on. Some of the comments have gone down rat-holes that are not germane to the discussion here. Side issues perhaps if more facts were known - but not really something that needs to be pinged on. That is where the Evangelical Libertarian in me comes in to play. I firmly believe in redemption. I also firmly believe that adults can only make informed decisions when they have the facts in front of them. Like Gov. Chris Christie (R-NJ) - I believed in treating adults like adults.

So, I am going to triangulate myself. I have re-posted the video, but as an "unlisted" youtube video. It is not public, and can only be seen by those I allow to see it (and should make my pal Lawyer Andrew happy).

If you wish to see the video, just email me and I will send you the link for you to use on your own computer and not to forward on to anyone else. Just be patient, as my paying gig keeps me busy - but like all my emails, I will read it and reply if I think you rate the link.

463 comments:

1 – 200 of 463   Newer›   Newest»
Concerned said...

This is wrong on so many levels.  Let's start with why the video.  Then the content (topic, semi flashing, etc.)  Then the language.

Anathema said...

Summer school and restricted too boot...that says it all.

Oh, and WTF with the microwave in the room?

Anonymous said...

My classmates........

Guest said...

The good news is that the women in this vid are not representative of the majority of Midshipmen.  The bad news is how did these women get selected in the first place?

WaywardSailor said...

This was so revolting on so many levels I couldn't even get past the 1:30 mark.  This is the institution I've been encouraging my son to set his sights on - they've got six years to clean up their act.  Sigh.

sid said...

I am sure melanin had absolutely nothing to do with it.

ActusRhesus said...

ugh.  I have no words for this other than ugh.

LT B said...

WaywardSailor,
   You can't beat a free education.  You get what you pay for, but luckily, the tax payers pay for this.  Secondly, the education is solid.  Not as good as they say, not as bad as I might say, plus it comes with a certain cachet as long as we don't let the reputation crumble, dropping standards to bring in a more diverse group at the expense of quality. 
   This is not terribly depressing.  It is consistent with a lot of college students of that age.  The academy, is not all that different in their demographics or recreation from other colleges.  Less drug use and the abuse of alcohol is there, however, but a lot less drug problems.  Do I think these young ladies will be good DIVOs and will garner the respect of their troops?  Not really.  They may get shaped in the Fleet, they may just be 5 and divers too.  I suspect they will not be sending any more videos out though.  Making a silly video and getting it to a few friends is one thing, but it is the age of the net, so there are other issues.  They are not representing the school well, but, hey, they seem to represent A-town just fine though.  So, there is that.

guest too said...

And none of the white males with higher SATs, better grades, more leadership experience, sports, etc. got denied admission because of them either.

Curtis said...

Went to NSI 26 years ago with a pair of girls just like this.  At the final PRT they pumped out a grand total of one situp and zero pushups and got their NROTC scholarships.  Spent so much time at Academic Review Boards it cut seriously into their 'study' hours.  Nothing new.  No changes.  Back then the women didn't go to sea on combatants and toleration was OK.  I had some misgivings but then, I'd read "Once an Eagle" and "All the Ships at Sea"  Sand Pebbles etc and somebody has to have the crappy Divo or there would be no Yosarians or Caine Mutiny.  Grist to the mill.

Anonymous said...

Was that ebonics?? Really, I only got one word in three. I guess the microwave goes with the fridge under the desk, right? Gotta be a fridge somewhere.

sid said...

<span>"here's you new DivO"</span>
<span></span>
<span>Any bets on how many deployments those two fine budding occifers will complete?</span>

geosar said...

yikes.  Makes me happy my son chose West Point.

LT B said...

I don't know what the problem is.  I mean, the CNO and his pack of geniuses tells me that this will help us relate to sick/needy Muslim Indonesians, earthquake victims in Haiti, racial/religious unrest in the Balkans and ASW in the Taiwan Strait.  Their different views expressed here will further our warfighting capability.  Have faith!  I am certain they will have their troops completely trained and ready to go.  No worries shipmates, no worries.

Redeye80 said...

Maybe they should start selling Depends at the MidStore!

Marine6 said...

Let's hope that someone brings this to the attention of CNO so that he can fully appreciate his diversity goal.

Navig8r said...

I guess they will be SWOs, because aviators are required to speak and undertand English. 

And about the microwave...  I remember an enterprising classmate who had a nice little side business making grilled cheese sandwiches during study hour with a bootleg hot plate.  He had to be sneaky, and we, his paying customers, had to be discrete.

I think every class that said they were the last class to have a REAL Plebe year, was probably correct.  They sure do seem to be making pansies of them now.

Phil R said...

<span>- I happen to know both of these mids. They are acting silly now, but are not much different than folks from past generations. As folks get older, many seem to forget how silly/stupid they acted when they were 20. I guess it fades with age; it seems like a natural progression. I forget how stupid (not just silly) I was, but I am often reminded due to my continuous interaction with mids.</span>
<span>- Q for all: If these black girls were white guys doing silly stuff, would the readers be as outraged and as an indication of the disintegration of USNA?  I say this as a white male who is a bit alarmed by some aspects of Navy's more recent Diversity policy "execution". I believe the specific application in some areas, as implemented currently, is potentially disadvantageous in the long term to future leaders who are racial/ethnic minorities.  Many of the mids feel this way. Black, white, male, female, other. Building barriers and not bridges.</span>
<span>- Q for me: Would I be outraged too, if I did not know these girls personally?  Not sure - perhaps annoyed, perhaps more (realistically).  Emotion and predisposition on these larger social/policy issues can cloud judgment when looking at/judging real people. It can make us put our thumbs on the scale - hard.</span>
<span>- Argument: I can easily find other videos of other groups acting more silly or even stupidly. I just watched a USAFA epicac chugging/vomiting contest (bunch of white males) the other day on youtube. Brilliant. However, I remember doing similar (and worse) stuff - except without cameras. Some of these folks are now Commanders of ships and squadrons, and most do not act like they did when 20. Maturity is a weird thing, and expected more as you age.</span>
<span>- However, I will personally remind these mids (we have discussed social media before), to watch what they post on youtube/facebook/etc. They need a little more guidance, and not simply condemnation from their elders (virtually). A little help from the group, please?  Please tell me, since I can pass it on - directly. </span>
<span>- Info: I am an Active Duty, USN O-5 working in Pentagon, living in Annapolis, who has made many stupid decisions in life. I hope that does not negate or disqualify my opinions here. I think it actually gives me some credibility on guiding those younger future leaders on what NOT to do. Isn't that part of mentoring?</span>

Phil R said...

Some of this post might be confusing since I had to keep chopping it to fit for some reason. Sorry if it is a bit confusing in advance.

Aubrey said...

Your last point is totally moot since your first point negates your opinion (and the rest of your post) to me. To jump immediately to accusations of racism is reprehensible, and tells me everything I need to know about your opinions.

Phil R said...

Microwaves are OK, and so are small fridges I think.  So are cellphones. They also have telephones in the rooms.

However, when I was there, I had a fridge and a microwave (and more) - and they were not reg. Alert the media. Nothing to see here...  

Phil R said...

I guess relative pansies, of course.  By class year.

Phil R said...

Aubrey,
Please read some of the comments. What do snarky comments ebonics have to do with a discussion on qualifications of leadership and behavior?
Too bad you feel that way. And when did I accuse anyone of racism? I simply am saying to think about one's perspective on the issue without that filter.  I guess I really should find a few links with white males acting like isiots to highlight the issue. 
If my communication is the issue, please disregard. Simply trying to make a point.

ender said...

Yeah.  That's funny.  I was going to say the same thing. 

Every plebe I knew/led just flashed before my eyes and almost fell over.  All I was left with was, "Ugh..."

Goatmaster said...

Phil R makes some good points.  I am a USNA grad, still on aactive duty after 20+ years, and I did plenty of dumb stuff when I was a mid and a new JO.  I just had the sense not to do it in front of a camera.  That is what I wish these mids had been taught.

Anon said...

Phil R,

Though I may not completely agree with you, thank you for taking the time to provide a thoughful response with questions worth asking. Good food for thought - without all the snark

DeltaBravo said...

I know people who had pets and cable tv rigged.  But it was well hidden.  Very well hidden.  ;)

DeltaBravo said...

If they make it to commissioning, this will come back to haunt them. 

I'm wincing.  It can be difficult enough to be taken seriously as a female.  They're going in with two strikes against them:  Unprofessional and no filter.

Phil R said...

Thanks anon.  I probably did have too much snark.  This is probably too personal for me to comment on.  Thanks

Phil R said...

Thanks. I guess I realize that I was, and am still - to some degree- an idiot.  Maybe that makes me an authority on being an idiot.  A dubious honor, I guess.

I agree with you that there is a big issue with on-camera hijinks. Will try to help them understand this more. I do not think (I will try to find out) if they (and their peers across America) are being really taught (at USNA) how this can impact really them as leaders.  Think of all the Facebook pics that come out. Shudder. Remember, someone can take your pic, upload it, and tag you. "Privacy" as we knew it, is gone.

Anonymous said...

Allowing Marijuana, lower standards for Football players, Slush Funds, and now this. All in the year 2010 alone! I wonder what great leadership skills and standards 2011 will bring us!

LT Rusty said...

Jesus motherf*****g wept.

Lobotomized said...

Where's the picture of the facepalmed CNO with the caption "You are not helping me out ladies".  I think Phib hit the nail on the head with the bottom line that "location and context" is the biggest issue.  I would have had just as bad a reaction to the video if it had been two bubbas from Georgia acting silly and talking as if they were in a barn or even a pair of surfers from CA.  The lesson these ladies failed is that THEY are the custodians of the USNA image and THEY just made it look like  the hood rather than an institution supposedly built to train dedicated Naval Officers.  (except remember its #1 priority - nevermind that last point)

Everyone here on this board has done silly, immature things whether in port, as a mid, JO or at tailhook. Most have realized that there is a time and place for it - if a person doesn't care or can't figure that concept, they are in the wrong profession.

Someone also needs to remind me to call Prof Flemming and tell him he's failing at teaching English. 

Lobotomized said...

Word up yo.

LT Rusty said...

Phil-

Sir, you hit one nail square on the head, but don't think that was the nail you meant to hit.  You said that you did plenty of dumb stuff when you were that age, but - and this is the key part here - you did it WITHOUT A CAMERA.

That was a judgement call on your part.  


And, regardless, I'd like to think that most reasonable people, whatever their age, race, gender, religion, heritage, culture, ethnicity, WTFever would find it COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY F*****G REPUGNANT TO PISS ON SOMEONE ELSE'S RACK, whether or not they talked about it on camera later.

Phil R said...

Oh crap.  Somehow I missed the whole pee thing. Oh no. I somehow can't believe that she said that on "film", distributed worldwide. 

I do not know how I missed the content.  To be honest, I was just focusing on the hooting and stuff and the silliness of it all (and maybe defending too hard since I knew them).

I am at a loss for words. Thanks for highlighting this unfortunate part. I was crass too, but never on film, and voluntarily.

Sigh.

Anon said...

Where is Don Imus when you need him? 

Salty Gator said...

You are such a troll.

Anonymous said...

Looks like they pulled it off Youtube. Time to post the keepvid copy.

Kristen said...

Oh my.  It's been taken down, so I missed all the excitement, but judging by the comments it must have really been something.

Salty Gator said...

Good discussion. 

Salty Gator said...

Marine:  I hate the diversity program, but that's a cheap shot

Vigilis said...

Yes, taxpayers pay USNA costs as a bargain to obtain top-notch officers committed to naval careers (based on the USNA's Mission Statement).  Based on the Navy's actual retention of USNA graduates, however, taxpayers are being snookered AND the mission statement has needed revision.  Tuition should be paid more appropriately from the budgets of appointing congressmen.

Perhaps the two women in this video will defy norms for their gender to become admirals valiantly defending the USA.  

cdrsalamander said...

I have the video.  Should I repost it on YouTube .... or let the point be made and let them slide?  Please respond to this comment.

Curtis said...

Is that Bancroft Hall?

Anonymous said...

Yes, post the video.  I want to see it since the guy from the alumni association is going to be calling soon asking for money. 

Old Cav Lt. said...

So, they have been kicked out... haven't they?

sid said...

CDR, I say leave it up until you find out what the outcome is....

If you find out that these two cadets have learned the error of their ways, and the matter has been satisfactorily handled, then pull it down.

You need not necessarily make that public one way or the other, but if the video remains up or is taken down will tell its own tale.

Aubrey said...

I would tend to say let it slide - the point has definitely been made. If cellphone cameras and Youtube/Facebook had been around when I was playing hockey I doubt if I ever would have landed a job after I "grew up"

Old Cav Lt. said...

As another OER famously put it, they're "not fit to carry the hod."

I'd give this the widest possible dispersion until they're back in the 'hood, where, come to think of it, they obviously belong.

Old Cav Lt. said...

<span>As another OER famously put it, they're "not fit to carry the hod."  
 
I'd give this the widest possible dispersion until they're back in the 'hood, where, come to think of it, they obviously belong.</span>

DeltaBravo said...

I'm torn between letting it disappear and between teaching an abject/object lesson that once something is posted online it's there forever and out of your reach.  This stoopid generation needs to learn that right quick. 

Maybe some special Phib online mentoring might make it so.  Or at least a lovely graphic here saying "In Lieu of The Video I'm too Nice To Repost But Only BECAUSE I'M AN OFFICER AND GENTLEMAN AND DON'T WANT TO HUMILIATE THE NAVY MORE" to let them know anyone else would have put it right back up. 

I'm sad for the two qualified people who didn't get in because they might have been horribly male or the wrong color.   But they might also have spent that time working on their engineering homework instead of being stupid for the world.

Mid said...

As a current midshipman, I can tell you that this is what is happening to this institution. This is a perfect example of the diversity recruitment problem at usna. I have showed several mishipmen this video and all are not surprised. My classmates and I would appreciate you reposting this video to show what the diversity recruitment policy is causing.

mid too said...

Please repost.  I was helping a Plebe write a special request chit and didn't make it back in time to see it.

Mary Alpha said...

It's GONE!

C-dore 14 said...

I remember the grilled cheese sandwich guys...they usually had a "Black 'N'" on the back of their Army B-Robes.  (They were also the guys who kept the plebes from getting much to eat at dinner that night.)

Repost! said...

Let them slide? This is an opportunity to show what the diversity recruitment policy is doing to usna. The mids can't Leak this stuff because they are afraid of being called racists. They are from it. Most believe that one should not be admitted to usna based on the color of their skin, because when It comes to leading sailors an Marines into combat, the MOST qualifed person is needed, not one who is simply "qualified." Skin color has nothing to do with that.

C-dore 14 said...

Sure looks like it.

Anonymous said...

SOMEONE GIVE UP THE NAMES... IF THEY'RE NOT IN FOR A MAJOR CONDUCT OFFENSE, I'LL PUT THEM IN TODAY!!!

C-dore 14 said...

I'd like to see it.

cdr ashore said...

ditto. would like to see it.

Phil R said...

For what conduct offense, exactly?  Just curious.

Anonymous said...

Sir,
I must say that you misjudged one of these girls if you think they were just acting silly. I had the great pleasure of being one of the girls' companymate for three years before commissioning and I feel the need to advise those who are reading that she is not fit for duty. She is a great person, but unfortunately will not make a respectable officer...not now, not ever. It is not a maturity thing, it's a personality thing. She craves attention and will do almost anything to get it...this video is only proof of one of her most humble cry-outs for it. I would know, seeing as how I stood watch outside her room from 0000-0630, as she screamed the company awake for hours from inside her locked door. Her actions these past years definitely warrant dismissle from this institution but somehow has not been reviewed for separation.
      In addition, for those of you who claim there are lower standards for "hood" types need to understand that this is not true for all who graduate from this institution.  We are not all like this; in fact, we cannot stand people like this. I am from the "hood" and graduated with a 3.2 GPA as an Aero major and you will not see a video of me acting as such. So before you judge, think twice. I would like to think my success was the result of my hard work and dedication . . . not the result of my skin color.

Phil R said...

Help me here.  What is the specific conduct offense?  How would it be written up, exactly?  I admit I am ignorant of the various specific possibilities. 

Not sure if distasteful social media is a sepcific conduct offense. If so, most of the brigade would have to answer for something.  I know.  I see many of the Facebook profiles - across all races and both genders. 

This is a real tough tech/privacy/PR issue, all joking or emotional stuff aside, that does not start and end with this one video.

Phil R said...

yes

sid said...

You'd think these texting, skyping GGW* kids would be really good IW meisters....

Go Figure.




(*Girls Gone Wild)

Tindril said...

I'd like to see it.

Repost! said...

Failure to use good judgement, destruction of government property(peeing), There are plenty of things

Anonymous said...

<span>Sir,  
I must say that you misjudged one of these girls if you think they were just acting silly. I had the great pleasure of being one of the girls' companymate for three years before commissioning and I feel the need to advise those who are reading that she is not fit for duty. She is a great person, but unfortunately will not make a respectable officer...not now, not ever. It is not a maturity thing, it's a personality thing. She craves attention and will do almost anything to get it...this video is only proof of one of her most humble cry-outs for it. I would know, seeing as how I stood watch outside her room from 0000-0630, as she screamed the company awake for hours from inside her locked door. Her actions these past years definitely warrant dismissle from this institution but somehow has not been reviewed for separation.  
      In addition, for those of you who claim there are lower standards for "hood" types need to understand that this is not true for all who graduate from this institution.  We are not all like this; in fact, we cannot stand people like this. I am from the "hood" and graduated with a 3.2 GPA as an Aero major and you will not see a video of me acting as such. So before you judge, think twice. I would like to think my success was the result of my hard work and dedication . . . not the result of my skin color.</span>

The Usual Suspect said...

Repost it.  Let the Mids deal with it.  It will be a painful, but valuable lesson for all of them.  People should learn from their failures.  Some lessons are not pleasant.

Phil R said...

I beg you to not get into the personal specifics. I am acutely aware of them.  Not sure if everyone else needs to be, at least in this public forum.

Ironically, this is part of the point I was trying to make regarding the problems with sharing behavior and discussions in private vs. in public for all to see.

I appreciate your comments, however, as from the heart and I understand your concerns, as many have shared them with me (not specifically only about this issue).  Mostly as an issue as to how an individual (midn) can reflect upon the group (usna).

Of course, no one seems to argue when they are associated with positive impact individuals (Staubach, Robinson, Perot, etc.), even though they do not even know them personally or have any connection except alumnus status. Kind of weird how we (society) tend to do that.  I guess that is why there are tons of avid fans for the number one team that year. I digress.

"So before you judge, think twice. I would like to think my success was the result of my hard work and dedication . . . not the result of my skin color."  Great takeaway comment.  Thank you!!!

Phil R said...

OK.  Thanks for the clarification.

Bedwetters watch out!!!  :)


Q: Is "failure to use good judgment" really a specific conduct offense?  Seems to be very open ended.  I am really curious and not trying to be a smartalek.

Kinda like a catch all "conduct unbecoming" kind of thing when you can't get someone on a specific UCMJ offense.

Anonymous said...

I apologize for the specifics. Frustration is the only thing I feel when I see things like this. It's hard these days to shake the hand of an alumni, watch him look at my class ring, then my skin color and sigh. The administration isn't lowering standards for minorities but, in my opinion, they are letting us get away with a little too much. But for those of you who expressed concern, not to worry. The new Dant is putting an end to it all. He is extremely fair and, most importantly, consistant.

Anonymous said...

Yes, "Failure to Use Good Judgement" is an actual offense in the most current MIDREGS and, yes, it is just like the catch-all "conduct unbecoming".

Phil R said...

THANKS!!!

Phil R said...

Thank you so much for expressing this. I have heard it alot. Please keep doing your best and setting a positive example as much as you can.

Thanks again...

Therapist1 said...

They obviously did not think enough of their reputations or that of the USNA/USN to keep it out of the general public.  Post it and let the chips fall where they may.  As my father said to me, "Son, you've got to be tough if you're going to be stupid."

C-dore 14 said...

Guest, Good to see that some things don't change.  "Good judgement, failure to exercise" was popular back in my day too.

Anonymous said...

Then again there weren't too many cameras around in your day.  Who's to say what would have happened if there were?

Anonymous said...

Post it back up.  Embed it in your Christmas cards.  Send copies to all your congressional representatives. Post it on "notmyUSNA.com".  Once it has been established in the public  domain, removing it does not remove the "public nature" of the video. 

Andrewdb said...

Releasing it to YouTube doesn't make something "public domain" any more than selling a book at Borders means the author doesn't own the copyright any more.

Doug Roberts said...

Sal, you absolutely should repost this video and keep it up there forever as a lesson to all.  Everything that gets posted to the Web lives on forever somewhere.  These mids -- and all who follow behind them -- should cite this as a case study about why you might want to conduct yourself like an officer and a gentleman (or gentlewoman) at all times.  It's a full-time profession, not just something you do in uniform, when in formation.

Doug Roberts said...

Repost it.  It's a valuable teaching tool.

Andrewdb said...

That it is down probably shows the "leaning opportunity" for these individuals is already in full swing.  Re-posting it seems to me to just pile on to them.

I also don't think you own the rights to the vid.  Posting it now is no different than posting a DVD of a new Hollywood film.  As a college buddy of mine used to say "do you steal your hardware, too?"  And if the Hollywood experience is any indication, don't expect an ISP to stand up for you if someone shows up with a subpeona for their records to figure out who you are/where you are coming from as part of a lawsuit for defamation, etc. (filing those is way too easy - winning them is the challenge).

Doug Roberts said...

Outstanding point, Lobotomized.  These young mids (I'm reluctant to call them "ladies") might have taken the time to do a video telling all their peers back in the 'hood that USNA has provided them with one heck of an opportunity to make something of themselves.  Instead, they have used their five minutes of fame to make to make both themselves the the institution look terrible.  I sure hope Sal puts this back up as a case study for all to study for years to come.

Anonymous said...

What would the merits of reposting it be?  I think you would embarass a large number of well-intentioned, well-behaved young men and women who have answered the call during a time of war and represent their Academy, Navy, and nation well.  Don't let this ghetto hoodrats disgusting display of unprofessionalism and immaturity diminish the achievements of the Marshall, Rhodes, Truman Scholars who are doing the country proud.  Those two midshipmen should walk in shame to the unspeakable depths!!

Andy said...

Andrew, out of curiosity, could you please cite either on-point case law pertaining to the reposting of YouTube material or perhaps an Administrative Law finding specifically citing similar facts to back up your assertion? I'll even settle for, say, a law review article or something on the ABA website.  Thanks.

Phil R said...

A little over the top in your anonymity, guest.  Calling someone a "ghetto rat", based off of seeing them in a video,  must be highly professional, in your world. 

Otherwise, I agree that the behavior of these two for the 3 minutes was not at the level of Rhodes scholars or befitting their standing (and who they are as people/mids).

Wasn't Clinton a Rhodes scholar?  I guess one "oh, crap" really does wipe away 100 "attaboys". 

However, it is possible you have no idea what I am talking about, as you are anonymous.

MR T's Haircut said...

Crap I got to start getting up earlier.. I missed the video.. but I can infer from the comments that these Mids screwed the pooch.. a pity, the Diversity Directorate will no doubt have to approve any discpline if any...

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Being a night shifter, I slept through the posting. When I woke up at 1300, I checked in here, and the video was gone before I could see it. You are not alone Kristen.

Anonymous said...

How about "Conduct unbecoming..."?

SCOTTtheBADGER said...

Doug Roberts?  Frank Pulver told me you were dead!

Phil R said...

Perfect. I have no pictures from midshipman days, other than stock photos and lucky bag.  A different world.  Film was a pain in the butt.  I did not even have a camera!

Mike R said...

I see plenty of comments about "they need more guidance" in regards to posting social media, etc. They clearly have none, just take a look at the microwave in the background. If anyone who upholds any standards has been in that room in the past 3 weeks since reform they would have had that removed immediately. Apparently, not everyone is held to the same standards.

xbradtc said...

If the repost of the video was accompanied by editorial content, it would almost certainly be protected by "fair use."

C-dore 14 said...

MTH, At least you missed it for something enjoyable.  I was at the dentist :(

Anonymous said...

Send it back.  Our tax doallars at work.  Even, as one suggested below, the showing would embarrass the others, then, I vote for a serious dose of peer pressure, seasoned with the MIDREGS to provide the correct taste as it goes down.

FirstClassMid2011 said...

Trust me, they are already dealing with it.  Everyone on the yard knows about it.

I will not comment on the value or lack of it by reposting or not.

FirstClassMid2011 said...

Trust me, they are already dealing with the consequences.

I will not comment on the value or lack thereof of reposting the video.

QMC(SS) said...

Please, by all means, repost!  The policy on social media is (and has been) well-established, and was reinforced/better-codified as recently as last month via NAVADMIN.  Much easier to keep video to yourself and be THOUGHT a retard than to post it and remove all doubt.

Guest2 said...

that was the first thing i noticed as well. i want a microwave...

Anonymous said...

NASTY looking people!!!

Salty Gator said...

Repost!

Old Cav Lt. said...

That would do very nicely.

One has to wonder.  How the heck did they get in in the first place?

LT Rusty said...

Mr T ... be glad you missed it, honestly.  You would have thought 'PAAAAIIIN' but it would have been your aneurysm happening.  You'd never have gotten the chance to actually -type- it.   ;)

Marine6 said...

SaltyGator, it might be thought to be a cheap shot, but it is really a shot across the bow. Do you really think that these two would have been competitive for admission if it were not for their ethnicity/gender? Somewhere there are two people who worked hard to get high grades, to master the English language, and to EARN an appointment who were disappointed because their skin is deficient in melatonin, or because the don't have the "correct" plumbing. When you worship at the altar of "Diversity" you have to expect that there will be consequences.

Unless I am missing something these two are already academically deficient which has caused them to be in summer school. They are, by thier own admission, already in hack. They glory in thier ability to bring discredit on the academy and the Navy by posting this on the internet. That would seem to be a prima facie case of conduct unbecoming, and conduct prejudicial to the good order and discipline.

All of this diversity crap flows downhill from the office of CNO. He ought to be reminded of what we are getting in return.

Redeye80 said...

Repost it. 

I'd like to see the public apology to the friend whose rack was stained.  I believe if that was my "friend", I'd have to break the MidReg about fighting.  I would not allow my "classmate's" shadow to grace my doorway.  Absolutley disgusting!

Redeye80 said...

"Someone also needs to remind me to call Prof Flemming and tell him he's failing at teaching English. "

I can't stop laughing, you're killing me! Excellent observation.

Phil R said...

A large number of mids take summer school in place of leave in order to get ahead on the class load.  This has been the case for a long time. Some take summer school to replace a failed class.

Andrewdb said...

Brad - you're not allowed to re-print an entire book as part of a book review.

bc said...

So, at the risk of flailing off the cliff: having grown up as a young sailor, CPO and LDO, I had the pain and pleasure of serving with all kinds of officers.  Some went to the USNA, most didn't.  Of those who did, some were ring-knockers, most were not.  I took my turn in the bucket helping newly reporting DOs settle in and hopefully grow through the experience, without mucking it up too bad so that they could press on with their chosen profession (to lead, fight and win, and maybe fly from time to time).  Some were complete disasters.  The worst were those with complexes of varying type and degree.  Fortunately, they were the exception and not the norm.  I don't know what the numbers are today (for every "x" new officers, "y" percent are from the Academy).  Surely, it must be a significant subset of the whole.  My experience was that the vast majority of USNA graduates learned the lessons of humility and honor well and performed admirably in the service of their country. Many went on Flag rank.  (there's a stat:  What percent of active Flag Officers are USNA graduates?)

Though there was no shortage of B-Shattery during my career, with everything else they have to deal with today, I simply cannot imagine the frustrations our LPOs/CPOs must face when young ENS so-and-so shows up, full of attitude, entitlement and a ring.  Good Lord, how it must sting and burn. I'd venture a guess how attempts at help/mentoring are received.  We do, still, do this, right?  Clearly, they bring discredit on themselves, their class, the USNA and the USN,.  Fortunately there are less of these knuckleheads and more of those who will be charged with the lives, welfare, well-being, good order and discipline of America's sons and daughters.  So what if there were no video, no consequence to bear, and she made it to the fleet.  Would she arrive slightly more mature and manageable, or would she bring forward chaos and calamity to her unit? 

Post it.  Teachable moment, indeed. 

Phil R said...

just go to youtube and type in "usna"...lots of videos to choose from.

Lots of folks to bash!!! Kick em all out (sarc)  They are all so unprofessional.

This might be my favorite:

Backshaft Boys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwQwE5kwgTs&feature=related

By the way:

USAFA ipecac contest (88,000 views):  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlizj9NzWI&p=971AFF12F2B31BE0&playnext=1&index=37

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Dat be righteous. 

LT Rusty said...

A defamation suit would get a summary dismissal.  The truth is an absolute defense.

MR T's Haircut said...

my sympathies Commodore.

Concerned said...

I saw it early this morning.  It should remain up.  There is no such thing as a private internet posting.  Some things last forever.

MR T's Haircut said...

lol

Concerned said...

Tailhook is a bad example.  Too many good officers' careers ended with that event.

Anonymous said...

excuse me? (ref to last part)

Another CDR S. said...

Sal,
Please repost the video.  Far too many missed it before it was pulled.  Thanks in advance.

JFBIII said...

Please repost the USNA video as I missed the AM showing.

JFBIII said...

Please repost the USNA video as I missed the AM showing.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

So which are these?

Dogger said...

If this is how serious these Mids treat their appointment and the obligation that it entails, do some Sailor or Marine a favor and post it.  You may be saving a life or lives someday.  Those Sailors and Marines deserve as much.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Pulver, huh?  How is it that I've never seen you, Pulver?

610Et said...

<span>I missed it. My suggestion is that if you choose not to repost the vid then take down the girls photos on your site. It doesn't seem fair to see all the negative comments under their photos without seeing what the fuss is all about.</span>
<p><span><span> </span></span>


Having said that, I see no reason not to repost it. Actions have consequenses. That's a good lesson to teach.
</p>

Anonymous said...

I wonder if the Dant and Supe put pressure on those poor girls to take down their wonderful video, or did they call Google directly to pull it down. Are the girls still there? Come on Sal, spill the names. I'ze gutz to know.

Mid Mom said...

Kids in general "these days" are amazingly stupid with texting/facebook/You-tube ad nauseum. We were fortunate that in our day, we didn't have the social media so readily available. Nor were we raised on shows like "America's Funniest Home Videos".  I am grateful that my mid figured out on his own to close his facebook acct. when he first got to the Academy, primarily to focus on his studies. We also policed him (and now his sister) vigorously to save him from his own adolescent stupidity. Nonetheless, he still managed a few idiot pranks. At least they never made You-Tube.

DeltaBravo said...

Sal, I've just thrown your d##n palm pilot overboard.  What's this about no movie on youtube?  (ahahahaha)

Phil R said...

Are you making the assumption that these two girls are recruited from <span>"areas with lousy schools, high crime and broken families". If so, you are not too far away from some of the goofy assumptions based on old racial theories from the 70s that cdr sal talks about.  Both of these two girls are not from these areas.  Just because they are black women does not mean they were recruited from the Hood. 
</span>

Phil R said...

From the source: the "pee" thing was a joke.  It never happened.  The whole thing was satire.  I will explain more fully tomorrow.

Phil R said...

Voluntary.  Not sure it matters...will post more about them tomorrow.  BTW, they actually do not talk like this normally, at all.  It was a joke video that got posted months ago as a lark since numerous mids saw it and thought it was funny.  Kinda like 5th Wing players or the Log...more explanation tomorrow.

Phil R said...

Why?

SNAnonymous said...

Epic fail.  I haven't seen the video, but I'm sure it's about as painful as watching the football team fumble 3x in the red zone during the game yesterday.

Nice said...

<span> </span>Great Job Admissions

DeltaBravo said...

Again... common sense and filter?  "Jokes" have a way of growing a life of their own and once something like this is released the individuals lose the ability to control the story or the perceptions the video creates.  If it's true, they trashed their own reputations.  If it's a joke... they still trashed their own reputations and will spend much time running around doing damage control and trying to convince people it was "satire." 

Jeff Withington said...

CDR,

Might you instead summarize what happens in the video and not repost it? This seems like a way to expose what happens at USNA while not forever staining 2 mids name/faces.
Jeff

Juramentado said...

For those of us who missed the video, can you recap what it was about?

cdrsalamander said...

This really isn't about these two MIDN.  Their names are not important.  Their DNA is not important.  When you give a sculpture a hunk of stone and two years later all he gives you is a pile of rocks and dust - you do not blame the stone.

cdrsalamander said...

Jeff,
If I sent you the audio - will you type out a transcript?  

Anyway - I'm not the one who posted it on youtube.  I did not pick the still shot.  The author did.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span><span>Just because they are black women does not mean they were recruited from the Hood."</span></span>

Nope.  But when they talk and act like it, it is a fair assumption on the part of the observer.  When they are so proud of doing so that they make such a video as this and get it posted on a public site, then don't blame anyone at all for assuming they are.

cdrsalamander said...

What if you produce something, and then you put it in a public space?  Can't it be quoted as long as credit is given to the author?

cdrsalamander said...

If it is satire, then why take it down?  If satire - why are people in trouble?  If you make satire that results in trouble, does that make everything OK?  If something was well known for months, and is only worth bothering with when a retired O5 in his footie-PJs links to it - then what does that say?

Jeff Withington said...

I have a major exam tomorrow (getting ready for bed now actually!), but I can take a look at it tomorrow evening. It's only a few minutes long?

CV60 said...

I'm not an expert on gang signs, but the girl on the left was throwing some kind of sign early in the video, right around the time she did the pseudo-flashing of her chest. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

The whole damned places is voluntary.  The only people for whom it is not voluntary are the taxpayers.

Steeljaw said...

At Citadel it was "Gross Poor Judgement"...

wowz said...

POST THE VIDEO!!!

Anonymous said...

video is UP!

Anonymous said...

REPOST IT! Thanks!

Anonymous said...

This happened over the summer before reform

MR T's Haircut said...

Umm saw the video..

I want my tax dollars back.. ALL OF THEM...

SUCKAs!  Assimilate, Articulate!

Fools

Khaloki said...

I guess that was embarassing because I couldn't understand a word they were saying.

DeVriess said...

Pulver, you've just cut the tow target line. No strawberries for you tonight.

Clyde said...

Plebes in the Hood, the Gansta Sequel Up In Here.

Anonymous said...

they haven't been kicked out and probably won't...some people just get more chances at redemption than more "common looking people" at the academy...its just a fact

Monkeyboy said...

I have faith that you could summarize the clip without a complete transcript. Something like, "Two mids made a video where they blank and blanked while saying blank, blank, blank and blank. At the end, they blanked.

The Usual Suspect said...

Phil,
If it walks like a duck...just saying.

Guest said...

Where is the video posted?

C-dore 14 said...

It took me back to my Midshipmen days in the late 60s. :(

C-dore 14 said...

DeVriess, You were my favorite character in that book.  In fact, I was once accused of being a lot like him (or was it "Iron Duke" Sammis?).

C-dore 14 said...

That football game took me back to my Midn days in the late '60s  :(

LT Rusty said...

CDR - I can type out a transcript in a couple minutes, if you want.  Shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes.

LT Rusty said...

Phib didn't post that picture of them.  He posted a link to the video that -they- posted, and that is the default frame of the video that shows.  It's been a long time since I posted a video on Youtube, but I believe that you can pick the frame that you want to show as the default view.

So, yeah.  Their choice, not his.

C-dore 14 said...

I've changed my mind and no longer really care about the video.  What I really care about is what the current administration is doing to clamp down on the "Don't Give a S*** culture" that spawned it.  Sure, poor attitudes have existed among the Midn since before the days of Philo McGiffin and were certainly around during my time but there was a limit to what the Executive Department would tolerate.  I didn't get that feeling during the past couple of years.

Have read the comments about "the reform".  Am really curious about some specifics about what that entails.  Mike R made an excellent comment below about people "upholding standards".  The Executive Department should make those standards clear and ensure that the Midn Striper Organization enforces them.

Otherwise instead of a Service Academy what we'll have is a tax-payer funded engineering school that requires all students to live in a dorm and has a really big NROTC Unit.

Curtis said...

Nope.  Actually the sculptor does blame the stone. 

EMCM said...

Standards....you've nailed it. All of this comes to compromising a standard. From discussions I read below, it is clear that we continue to lower the standard...and not just at USNA. Used to be a time when you came in the military and you had to adjust/adopt to the standard WE set. Now the military compromises it's standards to what they want...maybe not on all issues, but you can see the pervasiveness of it in many of CDR Sals blogs...from diversity to microwaves in USNA barracks. Hey, the military had it's issues and wasn't always the best employer, but for the most part many adjustments were made to policy that aleviated those, but the leadership just goes to far and seems to have a hard time making and supporting hard decisions...just because folks don't like it, doesn't mean your standard is off. We need to set them, communicate them, enforce them and then hold people accountable who fail to meet them. Good ole fashioned self discipline, the one thing our military has consistently provided or should!?

Casey Tompkins said...

On the other hand, URR, how many contemporary young (c. under 21) black American women do you interact with on a regular basis? People speak in a certain manner, employ euphemisms from a certain culture, and perhaps come from a different America than you do.

How is this different from the descendents of Larry the Cable Guy speaking as they do at home, or Jeff Foxworthy's kin? For that matter, drop by YouTube, and search for Heather LaCroix. She is a Louisiana lady, famous for her "jugging" and firearms videos... You could even search by title for the video "Heather Learns To Pee In A Soda Bottle." Classic stuff, especially if you want to slam someone based on their language, vernacular, or background. Part 2 of that is "Crack Heads & Prostitues." No, I'm serious. :)

On the other hand, if you searched YouTube for her name, and looked for the video "Heather Breaks Down About Cancer," you would discover a responsible woman who loved her father very much. You would also find an enthusiastic gun-user, and a smart woman. For myself, I would prefer to trust the "Loosiana" yahoos in her videos to serve in the armed forces as opposed to self-appointed cultural superiors.

My take-away from 'Phibs original post (aside from the dictum that "the internet is forever") reflects two trains of thought. The first is that modern technology is a bitch. How many plebes in the 1950s (or 60s, or 70s) would have embarassed themselves in a similar way? Technology is not morality. I don't doubt there are many servicemen today who owe their careers to the lack of actionable media records. Tailhook, anyone?

The second is that the Diversity Bullies are ruining the game for everyone. How many people here jumped the conclusion that these two cadets were unqualified because they were black, were female, or spoke in a non-dominant vernacular? How many asked themselves "how many 19-year-old white boys were just as dumb, back in the day," especially considering the feeble trail of evidence left by 8mm movie cameras and Instamatic Polaroid cameras.

Are these two young women incompetent? I don't know. I do know that none of us can answer that question until they go into harm's way, which a tad late for predictive analysis. Even then, I suspect they'll always have that nagging question in the back of their minds "am I here due to my abilities, or my background?"

Therein lies the true tragedy, not the follies of foolish midshipmen.

mikelambert@therealnavy.com said...

“The bottom line is we in the Navy have standards of professional conduct and standards of personal conduct."

Admiral Gary Roughead, CNO

I guess the question really is, "What exactly are those standards and who among us will uphold them?"  Clearly, some at the USNA (and elsewhere) are unwilling to.

Stu said...

Sometimes I think parts of the movie Idiocracy were prophetic.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Casey,

I notice that Jeff Foxworthy and Heather LaCroix and Larry the Cable Guy aren't getting a taxpayer-funded education as Midshipmen on their ways to being Naval Officers. 

How many young black women do I work with?  None these days, but a few years ago, quite a number.  Sharp, intelligent, driven students whose achievements and talents should put paid to the Diversity Industry's basic premise that exceptions must constantly be made regarding skin color.  Which is to your point.

But here is the rub. 

What if that had been two white males who posted a video of similar content, except talking "redneck" and flashing White Power signs instead of gang signs?  Even if they'd claimed it was a joke, they would have been long gone from Annapolis.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

<span>Casey,  
 
I notice that Jeff Foxworthy and Heather LaCroix and Larry the Cable Guy aren't getting a taxpayer-funded education as Midshipmen on their ways to being Naval Officers.   
 
How many young black women do I work with?  None these days, but a few years ago, quite a number.  Sharp, intelligent, driven students whose achievements and talents should put paid to the Diversity Industry's basic premise that exceptions must constantly be made regarding skin color.  Which is to your point.  But there's no money in that, no leverage to be had.
 
But here is the rub.   
 
What if that had been two white males who posted a video of similar content, except talking "redneck" and flashing White Power signs instead of gang signs?  Even if they'd claimed it was a joke, they would have been long gone from Annapolis.</span>

Salty Gator said...

There is no longer any excuse for Navy football to ever lose when we know what they do to the admissions for football players.......

bravozulu said...

This is an unfortunate case of fallen standards at the Academy. The sad truth is, the diversity policy is hindering the training of future leaders rather than helping. First of all, it is hard to understand why Navy leadership thinks that a young African-American sailor will not respect or obey the orders of a young white female officer...or for that matter, any officer who is not of his own race/ethnicity. Essentially, the effort to make the officer corps look like the enlisted is saying exactly that...

In any case, I did know one of the mids in this video. She has struggled with the Physical Readiness Test, only passing the run at the END of plebe year, and still having trouble with it since then. She has also failed classes left and right. While I think that making such a public mistake must be very embarrassing for her and I can empathize, I think that on a larger scale it makes a statement about the diversity policy. I'm sorry, you can point me to "Backshaft Boys" videos and say it is a different "culture" all you want, but the bottom line is most diversity candidates are underqualified and over-recruited.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

Parts?  I'm convinced the whole thing is a documentary sent back from the future.

Navig8r said...

During my Midn days in the late 70s, early 80s the team had only one strategy.  We even had a cheer, "Up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt!"

sid said...

The sad truth is, the diversity policy is hindering the training of future leaders rather than helping.

These two hapless mids are nothing but fodder for achieving Roughead's chimerical "Diversi-world."

Guess you gotta lose a few to win the goal.

Navig8r said...

"Conduct unbecoming" ring a bell? (I got a couple of those, when my Firstie was pi$$ed and couldn't think of anything better)

Phil R said...

Kinda like your salary and mine.

cdrsalamander said...

Read the post.

Phil R said...

Some more great USNA/Navy videos. Perhaps if all of these had been posted in context, the discussion could have gone away from all the Diversity./personal attack stuff to image and professionalism on film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VxVnRoKdx4&feature=related  61K views, with several mids acting ghey, wearing heels and makeup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPc4qJX2siM&feature=related
I am waiting for the calls for separation, as this is conduct unbecoming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ul_L1pIAM&feature=related
Dancing in uniform.  Looking for all of the complaints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5R0gqpcX3A&feature=related
This one is just disturbing. Great for military image, and all that. Simulated murder.  Good stuff. Of course, it is an Army video, so I guess that is OK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K78zNtO_EFQ&feature=related
More Army hijinks in Navy uniforms.  Mids (or cadets) eating grass, crayons, etc. in Navy uniform. Goat thing.

And who could forget this  - Navy "Pump It" video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqaWdkdFb3Y&feature=fvw
About 4 million views. The height of professionalism.

On ship Navy Numa Numa (200K views):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jShIeyur1G0

Navy Rap (it's a white guy, but in uniform)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-J0RiVXx6E&feature=related

If the defense of these Navy videos is they were sanctioned by USNA, that hightlights another problem.  Thousands see these vidoes.  The one that started this discussion was not promoted and was shared primarily amongst mids, and likely had less than 1K views (until now).

cdrsalamander said...

Phil.  Apples and orages.  No, Apples and Sea Cucumbers.

Phil R said...

Thank you for commenting positively on Sal's update.

I spoke with the individual mids for a little over an hour last night.  They are getting in trouble over this, as expected.  They understand that they made poor judgment on posting this video. 

What they did not understand was why they were being called things like "ghetto hoodrats" based off of a 3-minute video.  The excuse given was "if it walks like a duck..."

I ask those who posted such things to put themselves in their place for a second and wonder how they would feel. Read the comments again if you need some help.

Phil R said...

Strident calls to assimilate and articulate from a poster (I presume a professional military officer) who uses the handle "Mr. T's Haircut" and frequently posts using terms like "Pain" and "Suckas" is pretty ironic, you gotta admit.

Phil R said...

Another great one. Somehow worse...200K views




<span>


<span>


<span>


</span></span></span>

<span><span>


Call on Me- USNA Style


</span></span><span>


<span><span><span><span><span>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qnbmN370pw&feature=related</span></span></span><span><span></span></span></span><span></span></span><span><span>



Gotta love pelvic thrusts in Navy PT gear.  Aerobics looks funny. Add PDA at the end.  Nice screen capture.
</span></span><span>


</span></span>
<span></span>

Anonymous said...

Hey Phil, the videos you posted are of "spirit spots," which are showed at football games and other fun events for the entertainment of the mids, cadets, and the audience.  These girls posted a completely degrading, unprofessional, and outright pathetic video discrediting the naval academy for no good reason.

Phil R said...

True.  I posted some new ones that are least in the apple family. 

Stu said...

I have had numerous conversations with some of my enlisted, not to mention my children, about how people judge you through various means such as appearance, use of correct grammar and speaking properly.  Perhaps such a conversation would be appropriate for these two young ladies. 

If you act the fool, don't be surprised when people start calling you one. 

Stu said...

BTW,  I would be more than happy to discuss this with them if they "need some help."

sid said...

Phil you're conflations are obscuring the root issue.

For instance, the NUMA NUMA was outright "cute", then that other video came out a bit later that got the carrier CO in hack.

The mids acting ghey deserve the same treatement the latest two do. You other examples fall in various places across the spectrum.

Point is...Made here and elsewhere...that we suck at Information Warfare in comparison to our supposedly backwards foes like the Taliban.

Arguably, this is one of the greatest challenges facing you and your generation of military leaders.

And all your youtube list is proving is that y'all are cluelessly falling on your as-es.

Instead of saying "but we've always done it this way!" ...which really isn't so... you should be thinking about wehere you go from here.

Just my old flatulent .002

Phil R said...

<span>

<span>Yeah, and the video that the girls posted was upon request of other mids for “entertainment” as well.  The video in question was intended as comedic satire (like sanctioned spirit spots); was not meant to be degrading, or portray the brigade of midshipman as a whole; and received positive feedback from midshipmen from diverse races and genders (like spirit spots). Had there been notification of any midshipman being offended by the video it would have been taken down immediately, and it was not meant to represent any specific race or gender (see many Navy RAP videos featuring white male midshipmen).</span>
<span> </span>
<span>So to use your words, videos are OK if they are “<span>completely degrading, unprofessional, and outright pathetic”…”discrediting the naval academy” if they are sanctioned “spirit spots”, but if YOU think they are there for “no good reason” they are abhorrent.</span></span>
<span><span> </span></span>
<span><span>Great consistent logic.</span></span>
</span>

Anon said...

Phil

They should get in trouble. We are training future leaders, for free, with taxpayer dollars at a highly competitve military institution. The margin for lack of professionalism is slim. And no, this is not the same as the 'spirit spots' you mentioned above. These girls admit to peeing on someone's rack. I for one, just can't get past that. It's degrading.

They should know better.

Phil R said...

Really?  I can set it up, if you like. Not sure if you are serious, or if you are posturing. I do agree with your statements.  I would love for you to speak with them, and to hear them speak intelligently, as they normally do, outside of a stupid 3 minute youtube film.

Phil R said...

The peeing thing was a joke.  They did not do it.  They were mocking what they hear in the halls about what gross stuff guys do to other guys.  Did you ever read "A Sense of Honor"?  Watch using that toothbrush.

Phil R said...

I agree with all you said.  Good points. 

I am trying to highlight the issue:  where do we go from here?  It is NOT just about these two women.  There are past and present examples of stupidity, even if they are sanctioned.

I like your .02 

Anon said...

It certainly didn't come across that way.

bravozulu said...

Okay, Phil, just because another mid tells you to go do something, doesn't mean you go do it...honestly. As future leaders mids should be able to use their own judgement (assuming they have any) to politely decline requests that would put their own reputation/career in jeopardy, especially when it involves something as public as a YouTube video.

And Spirit Spots go through an approval process. The administration has to put their seal of approval on it before it goes on the big screen at a football game. I am absolutely sure that this video, which you claim was "only for entertainment," would not have made the cut.

Learn the difference between spirit spots and embarrassments. Stop trying to defend something that was, in essence, a grave error in judgement on the part of these two midshipmen.

Phil R said...

I agree.  I did not get the joke either.  If you have to explain it, it is not exactly a good joke.  Total backfire, in this case.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Salty,

I disagree with your assertion that it is somehow inappropriate to discuss this episode in racial terms, as the Midshipmen in the video were acting based heavily on racial stereotypes. 

I will say again:  <span><span>What if that had been two white males who posted a video of similar content, except talking "redneck" and flashing White Power signs instead of gang signs?  Even if they'd claimed it was a joke, they would have been long gone from Annapolis.</span></span>

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Phil,

You are going to break an ankle jumping to conclusions.  My salary is dependent upon my ability to generate revenue and secure contracts.  Directly.  The ultimate meritocracy. 

When my education/salary was taxpayer-funded, I did not fail any classes, nor was I on academic probation or required to attend summer school.  I did not appear in any movies or videos where I disparaged the very institution I had agreed to serve. 

I was also accepted at the college I attended based on merit of my high school performance, in a double-blind process. 

So cut the crap.

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 463   Newer› Newest»