I think though it is fair game when your target fired first. In that context - then I think I am OK with this. CNO, if you don't believe this stuff and feel forced to do it - then I just pity you. I don't think that is the case. If you actually believe this stuff and mean what you say? Well, you are fair game. Sorry, but you started it. I respect you enough to give you the benefit of the doubt; you are a true believer. Now that I think about it - when I heard you say similar things to this in 3D face to face (with your all white entourage, natch) - you looked sincere. Therefor .... fair game.
The mindless sectarian narcissism that has taken root in the mind of the CNO leaves me gobsmacked. I don’t quite know what is more distressing; the fact that he is so seeped in self-loathing and a masochistic guilt of his own self-identified “ethnicity,” the fact that he has so little faith in the inherent goodness and fairness of his Navy - or the utter paternalistic contempt he demonstrates for today’s young generation of officers and enlisted personnel.
Yes, I said it. Yes, I mean it. Yes, it is personal; the CNO makes it personal. Words mean things. Words of a CNO translate into action.
First the context.
I guess mixed race children will just never believe that they have opportunity. The fried-air logic of the cult of Diversity is pathetic.
I don’t know who - well actually I do - is advising the CNO on these issues or if these are concepts he fully takes onboard - but they exude all that is vile and destructive in the human condition starting with sectarianism, tribalism, and racism.
The fact that in the second decade of the 21st Century we continue to have leaders sinking back in to a retrograde view of race is a shame on our Navy and our Nation. We are better than this. We deserve better than this.
Yes, I said it. Yes, I mean it. Yes, it is personal; the CNO makes it personal. Words mean things. Words of a CNO translate into action.
First the context.
The Navy’s top … received the Asian American Government Executives Network’s Outstanding Public Service Award.… and the inevitable paternalistic “White Man‘s Burden” insult to the character, motivation, intellect, and motivation of our young Sailors.
Roughead received the honor for “exemplary leadership in promoting diversity in the most senior ranks of the U.S. Navy,” according to an AAGEN news release.
At the June 2009 AAGEN conference, Roughead signed a memorandum of understanding with the Naval Officers Mentorship Program to develop, implement and improve strategies for mentoring diverse generations of future officers. (Sal‘s translation: race based SeaDaddyism)
…
The CNO said diversity has been an important part of his life. His father worked in the oil industry, so Roughead didn’t grow up in this country.
“I benefited from the different perspectives, beliefs and cultures that I was able to see,” he said. “I was able to appreciate the richness and value that can be derived from the many different viewpoints, ideas and thoughts that can come together and make any organization stronger, better and more effective.”
…
“For me to be included as an honoree on the same list as Sen. Daniel Inouye is the highest honor anyone who wears the uniform could hope to have,” he said.
“The thing we must do is to have our young people be able to look up to their leadership and see themselves. Only then will they believe that there is opportunity.”Is that really what he thinks about today’s Sailors? They are that shallow and racist? Really? That isn't the Navy I know. That isn't the one I served in. Disgusting.
I guess mixed race children will just never believe that they have opportunity. The fried-air logic of the cult of Diversity is pathetic.
I don’t know who - well actually I do - is advising the CNO on these issues or if these are concepts he fully takes onboard - but they exude all that is vile and destructive in the human condition starting with sectarianism, tribalism, and racism.
The fact that in the second decade of the 21st Century we continue to have leaders sinking back in to a retrograde view of race is a shame on our Navy and our Nation. We are better than this. We deserve better than this.
58 comments:
I love Thursdays.
Can we start a grass-roots campaign to change the title of the billet that Rouoghead holds to CNP? Chief of Navy Politicians?
He and Mullen think nothing, apparently, of loudly voicing political campaign rhetoric.
I would like someone in charge of an Armed Service to be focused on the state of training, readiness, and combat efficiency of said Armed Force.
This "diversity, morning noon and night" crap is despicable.
*WARNING ENLISTED TALK AHEAD*
What in the F*CK happened to my Navy? How did we get to a point where 'diversity is our #1 priority'?! What happened to 'Being able to kick everyone else's @$$ is our #1 priority'?!?! For God's SAKE he's the goddamn CNO and he can't f*cking figure out what the hell a large body of warships and personnel are for?!?
I normally don't speak in those terms, preferring a reasoned discourse to abject ranting, but the current occupant of the CNO's office is pushing the boundaries of reality with his strange ideas on what to do with what used to be the mightiest Navy on Earth. It could be argued that it still is and probably will remain so for another 10 years, but nonetheless this insane ignorance is not helping us at all. I want my tax dollars to pay for a large group of colorblind killers, not a Peace Corps in grey ships manned by some quota. As we say in the nuclear Navy: Perform or Perish! EM1(SS) Tugboat, out.
Still quite uncertain on how "Diversity" will ever help here...
And, with all the effort spent on this pooh, along with the -vacuously AWESOME!- but otherwise sadly pitiful fleet being sent to sea these days...
The chances of a "rainbow crew" steeped in their differences ending up in a like situation is on the increase....
<span>“For me to be included as an honoree on the same list as Sen. Daniel Inouye is <span>the highest honor anyone who wears the uniform could hope to have</span>,” he said.
WTF!!!!!!!!! I PITY THE FOOL! THE HIGHEST HONOR IS TO ACTUALLY WEAR THE UNIFORM!!! THAT IS THE HONOR.
SUCKA!
Hey you you colud always run for Senate. All you need now is a skin color for credentials...</span>
Shut up and color Tugboat... :-D
Replace the MoH with Asian American Government Executives Network’s Outstanding Public Service Award? Could it be that is why we as a Nation are giving so few out in this war?
Do you wonder if CNO goes to bed thinking about diversity?
my current COC is so diverse that when I retire, they will be looking for a white guy for a quota...
Another escapee from the reeducation camp, along with URR.
Report to the city train station at 1200 for transport back to camp. Don't be late, Comrade, and don't forget your shovel.
Well said!
Is it only now, that people of Asian descent feel that there is opportunity for them to advance in our Navy?
Seems the Navy has been served by uncounted Filipinos and other Pacific Islanders for the past century, and my memory is that most seemed to make Master Chief.(At least when they were yelling at me) I think 137 Master Chief's is a little low in the count.
It was hard work and dedication that made the Filipino's of the past and present successful Sailors, not quotas and set asides. The CNO shouldn't take credit for that.
Almost from the start, I thought Roughead was a wussie. Guys should change his name to Softhead. An idiot too. Doesn't that Somali Navy Chief need a deputy?
As long as you are making it personal, CDR SAL, EXACTLY who IS advising the CNO (name & office symbol, please) on "these matters?"
Inquiring minds want to know...
As long as you are making it personal, CDR SAL, EXACTLY who IS advising the CNO (name & office symbol, please) on "these matters?"
Inquiring minds want to know...
As long as you are making it personal, CDR SAL, EXACTLY who IS advising the CNO (name & office symbol, please) on "these matters?"
Inquiring minds want to know...
<span>Count me in with Tugboat. And if you want us to report - you'll have to come and get us. Bring your friends. A LOT of them. (smile). OS.</span>
<span></span>
<span>*WARNING ENLISTED TALK AHEAD*
What in the F*CK happened to my Navy? How did we get to a point where 'diversity is our #1 priority'?! What happened to 'Being able to kick everyone else's @$ is our #1 priority'?!?! For God's SAKE he's the goddamn CNO and he can't f*cking figure out what the hell a large body of warships and personnel are for?!?
I normally don't speak in those terms, preferring a reasoned discourse to abject ranting, but the current occupant of the CNO's office is pushing the boundaries of reality with his strange ideas on what to do with what used to be the mightiest Navy on Earth. It could be argued that it still is and probably will remain so for another 10 years, but nonetheless this insane ignorance is not helping us at all. I want my tax dollars to pay for a large group of colorblind killers, not a Peace Corps in grey ships manned by some quota. As we say in the nuclear Navy: Perform or Perish! EM1(SS) Tugboat, out.</span>
I am trying to remember who last focused on the state of training, readiness and combat efficiency of anything...
I am drawing a blank. Big Sigh!
Years ago an old air boss (CNAF) gave our air wing a talk on why diversity was important, which amounted to "we have lots of problems, so having people with lots of different viewpoints helps us come up with the best solutions." That actually made sense. We do need diversity - diversity of experience and thought in order to come up with good solutions to hard problems. Diversity of thought is what we're not getting. We're getting all the bad and none of the good of diversity with the current batch. We get the racism, antagonism, resentment, and ethnic diversity without any of the benefit of diversity of thought.
We have a huge construction project and we have 25 cranes, all different colors, when we need 25 different pieces of heavy equipment, regardless of color, to get the job done. No wonder we suck, we have no idea what's important. We value gadgets over people and race over diversity.
how are you possibly the same GIMP who said that black folks in Sourth Carolina could never be expected to trust and or vote for a white guy no matter the credentials of both candidates?
All my skippers and superiors have looked like me. We all wear khaki. We wear nametags on the right, ribbons on the left. We don't wear covers indoors. We don't put our covers on the table. We salute.
95% of my COs, Commodores and Admirals have been black.
Until last week when we were having a discussion, my parents had no idea. "Why did you never tell us?"
"Um....because they are my Captains and Admirals. It never really mattered."
And still doesn't.
We do need diversity - diversity of experience and thought in order to come up with good solutions to hard problems.
"Solutions" -sucessful ones anyway- require a UNITY of decsion making.
So how is the continual celebration of personal differences helping here?
What part of "There is only ONE race: Human", doesn't the CNO understand? I know that, at least here on these pages, I must sound like a shipping recod (the old timers will know what that means) but I'll say it again: The only two general requirements we should demand of our recruiters is that they sign up the BEST and the BRIGHTEST available.
You do that ONE thing, and all the rest of the problems will sert themselves out.
Sorry, don't know HOW that triple post appeared, when I left only one was up.
Well Said! Here's to homo sapiens sapiens, no further classification wanted or required.
Race and Racial theory after all was invented by the [then future] racists as a means to justify why one group was more civilised than another, and thus more worthy / entitled to seize their manifest destinies even if to the great detriment of others. It's strange that society has somehow gone ahead and adopted a fascination with, and the same language for, the very distinctions it's meant to be fighting against. Rather like if a non-reformed modern Germany had diversity surveys where slavic immigrants had to declare their official status as Untermensch.
Oh no!!! How will you ever learn effective leadership skills when 95% of the time you do not look up and see you? Can you survive wihout being inside a cultural echo chamber?
"we have lots of problems, so having people with lots of different viewpoints helps us come up with the best solutions."
Yes, but no matter the race, all our leaders are Americans. If we really want different viewpoints to help us in our current conflicts, we should appoint leaders from the Taliban, Al Qaeda, North Korea, China, Iran, Syria-- talk about insight! Plus France, just so we can get a perspective on surrendering.
James T. Conway.
But he is leaving. I can guarantee you the next Commandant of the Marine Corps is the one who promised to push DADT down the throats of the USMC, and not the one who can do the best job of serving as Commandant.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/14/AR2010061405172.html?hpid=moreheadlines
"<span>I don’t know who - well actually I do - is advising the CNO on these issues or if these are concepts he fully takes onboard - but they exude all that is vile and destructive in the human condition starting with sectarianism, tribalism, and racism.</span>
<span>The fact that in the second decade of the 21st Century we continue to have leaders sinking back in to a retrograde view of race is a shame on our Navy and our Nation. We are better than this. We deserve better than this. "</span>
<span></span>
<span>this from the guy who is proud to not have any yankee blood in him? Sectarianism, tribalism, racism anyone?
</span>
Well, bless his heart. Somebody must'a gone and stepped on his lil' Yankee toes.
Sugah, take a deep breath. It'll be all right once you stop hopping around and swearin'. We know you can't help it if you're a Yankee, but we wouldn'a known if you'd have kept it to yourself.
(Touchy folks, those Yankees....)
... and they have no sense of humor. Can you imagine going through life like that - all covered with flint and strike-anywhere matches?
just pointing out that you are guilty of what you are charging others with!
<span>No, Phib is not a Yankee, so how can he be guilty of charging others with being what he is not? (Though I would counsel him that noticing someone is a Yankee and pointing it out is plain rude. No use embarrassing the poor souls. It's best just to look away..look away...look away, Dixieland!)
<span><span>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM</span></span></span>
*Ahem*
Not EVERY Yankee lacks a sense of humor. An' there are PLENNY of "rebels" with filler putty above the adam's apple.
I will remind the audience that the following hailed from south of Mason-Dixon:
Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton
LBJ
Al Gore
Mary Landrieu
Ray Nagin
John Edwards
Better watch your blood pressure, shipwreck, else you spring a leak in main steam...
From the South:
Phib
DB
Me
Trumps you :)
You just like to think so.
Which is easier? Basking in the glow of people who share your beliefs of individual accomplishment and responsibility, or fighting the fight against the collectivist one-worlder government uber alles types in the People's Democratic Soviet Socialist Republic of Vermont?
You guys go ahead and chill out down there. I will remain locked in mortal combat with the Bolshies.....
So anon, you're upset and disappointed because Sal doesn't have any ancestors who played for New York? There's lots of us out there.
Hell, I love in Maine, and I'm ALWAYS pissed about New Yorkers calling themselves Yankees. Any real baseball fabn knows the only team that counts is Boston. ;)
Yeah, same over here in the People's Republic of Maine. Frikkin' worker's paradise alright....... Sigh..... =-X
Unity is for post decision execution. Coming up with solutions is where different points of view help. The medical field is just beginning to accept the use of checklists, something the aviation industry has been doing for a very long time. Doctors considered it "beneath them" to resort to checklists, so they screwed up and killed people instead. A little humility and willingness to accept input from another industry that completes complicated tasks with a far lower error rate would have saved many lives. Instead they kept the blinders on and kept killing people. That is what lack of intellectual and experiential diversity gets you. Stuck on stupid. (The Checklist Manifesto, Atul Gawande, 2010 Profile Books, London).
Shh, URR, you just hush yer mouth.
We have a way of getting rid of that kind... we elect them to higher office and send them up nawth.
I think we managed to convince those Yankees to keep ol' Bill. And I think poor California has custody of Mistuh Gore now. And Jiminy... every few weeks someone shows him a map of a third world country holdin' an election and he disappears like lemonade on a hot day. Bless his heart.
Well, I didn't say it was right, just that you could expect it. I don't think it's right, but I think it's understandable. Kick a dog often and hard enough and that dog will fear people, not just you. Get treated like garbage long enough, often enough by people who look a certain way and you'll be suspicious of all those people. Right or wrong, we have strong survival instincts and it makes us wary of threats. That goes for all of us, even in the voting booth. You have to expect people to vote their perceived interests, even if the perception is flat out wrong.
GIMP,
You are (intentionally?) mis-representing the use of checklists in medicine. Those checklists are PROCEDURAL checklists, to ensure that a surgical TEAM performs a particular procedure completely and correctly. Patient safety labs in the hospitals I work with practice against those checklists. However, there are no proscribed checklists to tell the doctor a diagnosis nor which procedure will be most appropriate. The day I find a doctor using a checklist or rating system to determine what the hell is the matter with me is the day I treat myself.
The doctor, with input from other medical professionals, and from the patient/family, will make the decision. Then the decision is carried out by a diverse team of professionals. It is much the same with military entities. The commander is responsible, seeks input from different skill sets and expertise, and then makes a decision ALONE. It is not a result of some sort of collective consensus.
"We all put the yeast in" may work for the Three Stooges, but not for an effective military command.
Mr. Roughead, I threw up in my mouth. Again. Not a f'ing clue, and top dog in the Navy. Is this a great country or what?
And me.
Now DB,
Is that a quaint Southern expression for "good point"?
Sounds like the Marine has a pocket translator on him. lol
He's somewhat smarter than he looks. Thank goodness. ;)
...and I like AW1 - bear and funny voice and all. Heck - I buy URR beer every time we wind up at a bar together ... I guess I am ... a .... Yankee lover!
Procedural checklists - just like in aviation, which is what I (well actually the author of The Checklist Manifesto) used as a comparison. Not as a substitute for brains. That would be an example of stupidity. The point is the groupthink that led to resistance to adopting such a simple device. You make my argument for me with the seeking input from different skill sets and expertise statement. Of course the commander decides. Of course the commander doesn't need a consensus. This is the military we're speaking of. The commander could do with some well though out options though.
well there is a point to be made.........if you're going to whine about something (tribalism, etc) ya ought not participate in it yerself
Actually this all proves the point of Phib's original issues with Roughead.
We aren't all reduced to one factor of our lives. Actually, I belong to several "tribes" and they do not all intersect. So while I'm a Southerner, I also intersect with Yankees who may be from "Catholic tribes" or "Irish" or "Female" or "Moms" or "Political Conservatives" or "Loves USN/USMC" and "Cracked.com fans." We're all much more complex than our skin colors, regions and ethnicities. And it's that multiple-faceted character we all have that helps build esprit here (or anywhere) and it's an insult to people to believe that the character YOU designate is the only valid one to evaluate them on.
<span>The problem is, there is NO diversity in thought when it comes to the Diversi-nazis GIMP.</span>
<span></span>
<span>To them, its all about defining people by what has become largely artificial barriers based on skin color.</span>
<span></span>
<span>Where is the "Diversity" here GIMP?</span>
<span></span>
<span></span>
But sid! They're as diverse as the Somali Navy!
GIMP,
Again you dance around the point, perhaps intentionally.
The Commander has a very diverse group available to him in an Operational Planning Team.
An infantry dude, A Fire Support dude (usually the brightest and handsomest), a logistician, an air officer, perhaps an Naval Gunfire rep, a tanker, an amtracker, and any other skill set he may need, depending on the operation.
But noplace in the MCPP or the FM 5-1 does it call for skill sets from people with a particular skin color. They don't have to "look up and see themselves" or any other horsesh*t like that. Get this: they have to be competent and aggressive, and understand their craft. And THEN the commander selects one or a hybrid of the COAs before him. The BEST one, not the one developed by a black guy or Hispanic, because he is not being "diverse" if he doesn't.
So your comment about unity being only in the execution is abjectly wrong. Everyone at that table is working in unison toward what the boss wants and what the troops will execute. They are using their skills and perspective to work toward a defined goal, and not to try and make the goal what their particular advocacy group wants it to be.
Uh, that's what I said in my original post. You'll get no argument from me.
I never said a word about skin color, but diversity of experience, etc. being the form of diversity that will achieve the stated goals of getting a good variety of viewpoints, which is a good thing. That, as opposed to what the Navy is doing, which is a bad thing. Fine, I'm abjectly wrong. I give.
Diversity of thought is what we're not getting
Your point here is well taken GIMP...
Hence the the continuing series of DivThu.
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