Thursday, May 26, 2011

Watch your blood pressure Marine

Seriously. I mean, seriously. If there was ever a group in dire need of a good Marine NCO - this would be it.

Bad enough to fit the cliche that Sailors can't stand in formation better than over caffeinated ferrets - but this is one of the pictures sent out by the Navy News Service.

Why would you ever feel a need to put out a picture of such a sloppy formation? Would the PLAN put out such a picture?

Why? The mind boggles ..... but have fun anyway. I can't make up my mind if I like the Sailor with the towel over the shoulder or with his arms crossed better. So many options. Spot your favorite Sailor in need of quality 1-v-1 time with the Gunny. Click for a larger view, if you want to.

110520-N-GS507-791 PENSACOLA, Fla. (May 20, 2011) Staff and students at the Center for Information Dominance (CID) Corry Station participate in morning colors during the command's sixth annual Cultural Diversity Day. CID Corry Station oversees career management and training for officer and enlisted students of the U.S. military and allied forces in the fields of information warfare, information professional, cryptologic and information technology. (U.S. Navy photo by Gary Nichols/Released)

116 comments:

Grumpy Old Ham said...

Geez, that looks worse than the average USAF PT formation...

Stu said...

Cue overly defensive PAO...

MCPO said...

Looks like 10lbs of sh*t in a 5lb bag

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Favorite?  Gosh, so many.  The towel is a good choice.  Sunglasses is another excellent call.  We have a backpack.  Several heads turned here, there, and everywhere.  Someone looking at his feet.  Gigglers are always fun.  The arms crossed is another excellent candidate.  (We boring you, sonny?)  They all may be winners for the excellent cover and alignment.  I've seen better formations in the "Up with people!" halftime shows.  Could you imagine what this gaggle would look like drilling with rifles?  It is to make Lee Ermey cry.

But, of course, they are celebrating diversity day, or some such, right? 

Close order drill teaches and reinforces precision, spirit, discipline, teamwork, pride, military bearing, and instant obedience to orders.  None of which is required in the kinder, gentler, more diverse Navy. 

You would think "Information Dominance" candidates could process a command bringing the unit to attention and another to cover down.  A few hundred hours with a Senior Drill Instructor on the Third Battalion parade deck at Parris Island would get their networked asses looking like something....

Surfcaster said...

No worries - picture mixup. That was our Cub Scouts from last weekend's camping.

Salty Gator said...

Here's what I love about Marines:  in the barracks, they are spit and polish.  They are precision, square corners, sounding off, the most beautiful salutes you will ever see, and motivating, fire breathing "GOOD MORNING, SIR/MARINE!" greeting to each other.  In the field, they are nasty, dirty, dingy, unkept (save for their gear and weapons) and the most effective combined arms fighting force ever to grace God's green Earth.  The Navy was the same way back in World War II:  pretty in DC and Pearl / San Diego / Norfolk, pretty nasty in forward bases, and really nasty underway.  The right emphasis was placed in the right places, and the result was the greatest fighting Navy ever to grace God's blue Oceans.

Salty Gator said...

Yup.  Whoever knew crap could be so diverse?  Guess the command mission of celebrating Information Dominance Diversity was achieved.  Too bad that there is nothing dominating about the picture though.

Sigh.

And the director of N2/N6 wants us to know that this is the warfare of the future.  If it is, then we are severely screwed because this is who they will be fighting:

Salty Gator said...

what is really sad is that this isn't even PT.  This is COLORS.  The one damn thing that if you do no other drill and ceremony correctly, YOU SHOULD DO THIS ONE CORRECTLY.

Robert Peters said...

I read somewhere, yesterday, the U.S. military has trouble finding enough hackers to fill the ranks of Information Dominance-type units.  The article went on to describe military leaders considering reductions in physical fitness, drill & ceremonies proficiency, etc. standards to be able to attract and retain hackers.  It looks like the standard reductions have already begun.

AW1 Tim said...

DWIW,

  I'm thinking the guy with the towel actually has his arm in a sling and perhaps a soft cast. I may be wrong, but that's what I thought of when I saw the pic.

  Otherwise, yeah. Staying in ranks and covering your file just isn't that hard to do. Seriously.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Nope, the towel is on a woman's shoulder to the left of the "formation". 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

<span>Nope, the towel is on a woman's shoulder to the left of the "formation".   The guy with the sling was likely grievously wounded partitioning a hard drive or setting a time to live on a server, in an act of selfless heroism.
</span>

AW1 Tim said...

  Oh....... gotcha.  I didn't spend a whole lotta time perusing the image. It's hard to look at.  :)

Aubrey said...

Forget the picture - what a55hat decided "Cultural Diversity Day" was such a good thing we had to have 6 of the frackin' things?

Old Farter said...

Southpark - World of Warcraft episode comes to mind.

John said...

Forget the sloppy formation, what is really depressing is that this shows "...<span>sixth annual Cultural Diversity Day"</span>

Dave Navarre said...

On the internet, no one knows you're diverse (or that you're a spaniel).

UltimaRatioRegis said...

May I present A55hat 1 and A55hat 2.

Also instrumental in bringing you the 180-ship Navy, Tiffany Warships, LCS, and Optimal Manning.  (Even more ghey cousin of Bradley Manning.)

Kevin said...

I'm surprised no one mentioned the bicep ID card holders that <10% of the people are wearing.

MR T's Haircut said...

There were 5 before this?

MR T's Haircut said...

one word,, Crypies.....

Surfcaster said...

I'm not bald! I take offense to that.

andrewdb said...

URR - you're slipping.  You forgot to mention Holly Graf.

Anonymous said...

The guy back left that's basically facing backwards to chat to his mate doesn't get a mention?

andrewdb said...

Huh?  The Marines I know talk about how the used to take a shoe shine kit to the field.

Anonymous said...

Take that back, what about bottom right? He's in the front row and apparently not even trying.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Holly Graf didn't precipitate tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in repair costs to our nation's war ships by acceding to a gimmicky power point concept for short-term "money savings" by cutting ships' crews below the minimum needed for proper operation and maintenance, and she didn't then take what was an already-compressed amount of training time to master that operation and maintenance function and fill it with useless crap that detracts from training and proficiency for war.

If she had, I would have mentioned her.  But these two did.  So I mentioned them.

SouthernAP said...

Last time I was in the P'Cola area (circa 2003) those were mandotary for all hands on PT evolutions. One of those ATFP things that a good idea fairy brought up that then became policy. Over at the NATTC base, it has been useful since some kids aren't use to the summers down there and then become medical emergancies so with the ID cards the medical response is able to start filling out the paperwork while working on the non-responsive sailor. I hated the damn things since I could never get them to fit my arm right so instead I work the necklace style holder, since there was some wiggle room in the instruction for one of those.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

And you went to the field with the Marines how many times?  Go out to 29 Palms with the old boots, and stay in the field for 40-50 days.  If you don't do something to keep the leather protected, you would find yourself with your toes sticking out of them someplace. 

Also, Marines are expected to look appropriately like Marines to the maximum extent possible.

SouthernAP said...

URR,

I spent some time at both A-school and later at a C-school in P'cola. Both times one of our lead PT instructors was an Jarhead airdale GySgt who tried desperately to get us Sailors to stand Jarhead formations. I am pleading the 5th Amendment right now about possibly standing akwardly in his PT formations while "At Ease", just to tweak his nose.

I would remind you of a quote that I read years ago about sailors and formations, I can't remember what the source is, but it was "Sailors have thier own way of standing formations for everyone from heads of state down to thier leading petty officers which basically convenes thier feelings about the formation. Not exactly ramrod USMC style, but rather a 'Are you wasting my time to be doing something some what more important' style..."

SouthernAP said...

Oh and I did give up many a Saturday morning cause I messed up the Gunny's PT formations to help run the fence line at NAS P'cola with a Red Gun above my head in PT Gear and body armor on with the rest of the remedial formation folks. Again I plead the 5th about whether or not I did it on purpose. I was a little bit of a rabble rouser and had a rebellious nature with the way they did PT with us down in NATTC.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span>'Are you wasting my time to be doing something some what more important' style..."</span>

And that includes a COLORS formation?  They look like pigs.  There are only two arguments, neither valid.

1)  They don't look like pigs.  But there is photographic proof to the contrary

2)  They look like pigs.  But looking like pigs in a Morning Colors formation is not important.

Spirit and discipline.  You have it, both personally and as a unit, or you don't.

Squidly said...

At least the zoomies have better looking PT duds.

DeltaBravo said...

Yeah... wrong way Corrigan was the one I noticed.  He's in need of a drill sergeant asking "Is there something interesting going on back there, Stupid?  Face forward.  NO!  Your other face!"

DeltaBravo said...

Gosh, some of them go back for more sandwiches in the chow line, huh? 

I'll give a pass on the few with sunglasses.  We'll pretend it's legit and they are prior service and have eye injuries from Iraq, right?  It's a medical thing.  Okay, even without that look at the big picture.

Yellow?  I know it's supposed to be Gold.  But it looks like a sea of yellow.  Now, yellow is one of my favorite colors in the world.  But in military/fighting terms, it has...negative connotations. 

It's not a color that inspires.

Those shirts should be white....blue.... anything but yellow.

I once subbed a 3rd grade class that stood in line like that.  I fixed that right quick... I actually taught them to march straight and stand at attention and at parade rest.  They got pretty good at that waiting for the water fountain.

If I can teach 8 year olds to stand in a straight line, our infodominatrix set should be able to grasp the concept.

Anonymous said...

That picture is a visual representation of what Cultural Diversity Day is doing to the military.  Does the military really have to look like a Sunny D commercial?<span> 
</span>

OldCOB said...

That was before we became a "Global Force for Good".  Of course in this case it looks more like a global force for "Good Grief Charlie Brown".  If those shirts only had a horizontal black stripe around the middle.

The Usual Suspect said...

Apparently, the information about dress and cover did not get to these information dominance types.  This is truly pathetic and totally unsat.

DeltaBravo said...

haaaaaaaaaaahaahaaaaaaaaaa...  (wipes tears away)   ahahaaaaaaaaaa...  Good one, OldCOB!

CDR Salamander said...

"<span>infodominatrix"</span>

DB gets a gold-star-happy-face.

Surfcaster said...

More likely deleting p0rn. Those darn images just crush those new RAID arrays ordered in the late 90s..

C-dore 14 said...

Ahhh...the "anonymity" of a massed formation (most USNA midshipmen know what I'm talking about).  Can't pick my favorite...it's a tie between the guy with his arms folded across his chest and the ones staring at their feet (maybe they're praying that the day's activities will end soon).

FCC said...

Seemed 90+% white male, were the Diversity Police asleep at the wheel?  They could have taken a page from the university admissions handbook and photoshopped it.  It's like they're not even trying.

http://www.11points.com/Misc/11_Photos_Where_Black_People_Were_Awkwardly_Photoshopped_in_or_out

andrewdb said...

URR - you could be a little more graceful when someone is agreeing with you.  I never said I had been in the field with Marines.  I do admire that they would take the time to care that much in a deployed environment.  I did just return from spending a week with the Guard.  Notwithstanding the expose about the base, nor the fact FEMA apparently found it unsuitable for Katrina evacuees, I can honestly say I have never seen more than one mouse at a time in the field grade quarters (although one of my Captains does refer to the company grade quarters as the"From Here to Eternity" building). 

SouthernAP said...

I agree not a morning colors that we shouldn't look like dog dirt. That being said spirt and discipline has been lacking for a long while in our Naval Service. We have commanders who try to instill spirit by winning awards, but at the cost of zero manhours at the homefront. Which usually means there are just bubbling under the surface dicipline issues or will be in a little bit. Other times I have seen spirit being installed into folks via the CoC trying to be everyone's friend. That lead to slipshod discipline too, because the CoC was unwilling and unable to enforce the regulations unless it was overt violations. I have also been in commands where spit and polish was pushed more then being warfighters and it only showed when it came time to pass important inspections like INSURV/AMI/AMMT/etc. There is a fine balance between being a warfighting unit and having pride instilled into you about being part of that unit.

I would note too for everyone that we have lost instilling the American Spirit into our children. To take pride in being an American, if that is nationalism then so be it. Yet, we can't start to fix ourselves if we don't have pride in being what we are, that is Americans. I mean I was at an Armed Forces Day parade near my in-laws home and except for a few of us, most everyone didn't know that proper protocol was to rise and hand over the heart for passing of the flag. It has been uncool for the longest while to be an American and have pride in our nation. That is only reflecting in our own military service as we have folks joining that haven't learned that pride and make it harder for those SNCO/NCO's that do want to instill that pride in their troops.

SouthernAP said...

It is sad, but a damn shame. For the life of me it makes no sense to have a mass formation like that unless it was strictly for making the Navy News Services/CHINFO brief. To hose it up like this only means that the CID OIC's and CPO's are screwing up on their job of teaching thier sailors how to be the repsentation of the American Spirit.

SouthernAP said...

It is sad, but a damn shame. For the life of me it makes no sense to have a mass formation like that unless it was strictly for making the Navy News Services/CHINFO brief. To hose it up like this only means that the CID OIC's and CPO's are screwing up on their job of teaching thier sailors how to be the repsentation of the American Spirit.

LT B said...

You're going to piss AR off.  She is a WoW warrior

LT B said...

Dude, the colors formation was not to honor the National Colors.  It was a diversity formation.  Thus the "colors" moniker.  They are all about skin color, these diversity people.

SouthernAP said...

I am not going to completely defend these knuckleheads, my feelings about this staged photo op is listed down below in a discussion with URR. For those that miss it, this is piss poor and I would bet you that these folks probably just got back from some sort of mando "fun run" and then were attempting to catch thier breath and stand in the selmblance of a formation for this staged photo op. Which if you swing by the MCPON's Facecrack page you can see another piss poor shot of some of the same crap as his "Fleet Photo of the Day".
This is a training command and excluding a few fleet returnees who are Preform-to-Serve conversions, most of these folks should have the basics of how to do this right coming from boot camp. Since this is where the Cryptotech ratings do thier A and C-shools at is in P'cola over at Corry Station.
Instead of hating on the students and the new sailors, you should probably be hating on thier leaders. The CT2/CT1/CTC's who are the instructors at the school (when they aren't learning from CBT or civilian instructors) with the CT LDO/CWO's at the school house OIC's and the black shoe CDR/Captain who allowed a sloppy formation like that get setup.
We as sailors don't teach close order drill anymore once we leaving the training enviroment. So a number of the instructors at the school house don't know close order drill and in turn they don't try to maintain the close order drill mindset in the sailors when they show up at the A-school enviroment.
Having been in the training enviroment numerous times, the instructors seem to not care because they expected this to be "light" shore duty, with minimual work. While instead they waste about 90% of thier time in the 10% of the screw-ups who should have been caught at either MEPS or at boot cause they just don't have the mindset to continue properly in the fleet. If they aren't dealing with the 10%ers then they are trying to get some extra-circulars knocked out so their evals look good for some upcoming board. Most of the instructors that I have meet don't care about trying to teach the students how to be good at thier jobs instead it is all about getting them in and right back out with the knowledge they need to try and be useful to the fleet. When the tour at the school house ends and some of these same folks roll back to the fleet they wonder why these kids are screwed up at not only thier jobs, but also in just being sailors.

SouthernAP said...

IMHO it is all a vicious circle that is started over at NPC with the need to get max number of bodies in and right back out of the training enviroment to fill some hole in the fleet. They put pressure (like they do to the recuriters) to get certain number of students into the schools and then back out of the schools into the fleet. So that means unless you violate some major rule (like major crimes, dui/drugs, or just rock all your tests) more then likely you are getting pushed out the door to the fleet. Where the fleet then has to deal with you. It is all a numbers game and while the CNO, MCPON and CPO mess talk about sailorization, the reality is they care about end strength not about producing good sailors.

Squidly said...

Special VADM Dorsett initiative.  Bring in a select group exempted from most military aspects. I think they were looking at like 6 the first year.  Cap out at LCDR.

I'm not a nukiepoo but I vaguely recall Reactors doing the same in days of yore to bring in uber gektor engineers (never to set foot on a boat), although I think grooming standards applied. 

Squidly said...

A casualty of the 45-second workout?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Huh.  Sent in a reply but it vanished in the ether.  Apparently the CHICOMS are monitoring Phib's blog.

Anyway, the "not fit for Katrina victims" made me chuckle and reminisce of a time at Fort Chaffee in the early 90s when the old WWII barracks we were to spend three days in had cold running water, and a sign on the top deck hatch that said "unfit for billeting".  After asking around, we were told it was "something about asbestos".   Ahh, nuthin' but the best for our guys in uniform. 

BTW, carrying boot polish may seem silly, but humping around the volcanic rock at 29 Palms, if you didn't apply polish every couple days, the cheap-ass leather in your boots would crack and disintegrate.  Even with polish, I would go through a pair in three months or so.  Without it, you might get three weeks. 

MUCH better footgear now.

andrewdb said...

"Unfit for billeting" indeed.  One of the brand new LTs with us this cycle confronted the manager at the billeting office about the asbestos signs - which went about as well as you would expect when a brand new LT does something like that to a civil service/MWR employee who has been there at least 10 years.

Marine6 said...

You are absolutely wrong about "spirit and discipline has been lacking for a long while in our Naval Service."

We Marines happen to maintain our standards.

Now, if you were to say that they have been missing in Navy, I would agree with you.

Casper said...

WTF? We have some with back packs, and some w/ what appear to be ipods (or id cards) on their arms (btw, both left and right so we can't even be consistent here).  How about the guy turned around? Pehaps he is the class leader (or just a kid who gives a damn) trying to dress the line or tell someone to quit talking in formation...likely not.  This is UNSAT.

James said...

Im a eve warrior does that count?

CountrySngr said...

God, I'm getting old...my first thought when I saw this was at Corry was, "back in my day at EW "A" and "C" School (93-94) you wouldn't have seen this sloppy shit." 

Salty Gator said...

back when they were called EW's, none the less!

Salty Gator said...

Submariner humor at its finest, COB!

DM05 said...

My sentiments exactly.sixth annual CULTURAL DIVERSITY DAY? Hey, here's a novel idea, let's not have a 7th, and work on shoring up those lines and teaching information dominance. Sh1t, I feel old and grumpy. The two A55hats have contributed me thinks.

LifeoftheMind said...

Information Domination, a moniker straight out of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil", didn't get the message.

LifeoftheMind said...

Information Domination, a moniker straight out of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil", didn't get the message.

Anon said...

You have reached an all time low for pettiness.  Oh, wait, I'm sure you can be more petty.  It's not a formation for inspection.  Geez.  Lighten up.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

No, not an inspection.  It is more important than that.  It is MORNING COLORS. 

They look like pigs.  If you are fine with that, then you are part of the problem. 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Amen, Leathernuts.

Nutzinov said...

You all missed the tag line "Cultural Diversity"  "<span>during the command's sixth annual Cultural Diversity Day."  What else would you expect?  If we were all the same then we would not have to celebrate being different!  Formations are about being the same, uniforms, etc... Cudos for being different!!!! </span>

Aubrey said...

On the topic of Cultural Diversity - great quote from the judge's ruling in Texas about being able to say a public prayer at a VA cemetery:

"The government cannot gag citizens when it says it is in the interest of national security, and it cannot do it in some bureaucrat's notion of cultural homogeneity,"

FOD said...

As far ar the formation, my hope is that the photo was taken as they getting into formation, not actually during colors. 

Agree with the comments on gold as a color choice, but remember it wasn't too long ago that each Sailor picked the t-shirts and shorts we wore to PT.  For that matter, when I first came in the Navy in 1979 our "command PT" consisted of volleyball and frisbee with a keg as refreshments.  (not at Corry) Our Chiefs and first classes then were all combat veterans of Vietnam - did they lead us to technical excellence? Yes.  Did they lead us in running in formation? not so much. Different times, different priorities.

Salty Gator said...

Anon, you are such a tool.

Anonymous said...

The amount of uneducated assertions on this picture is ridiculous.

And this is why the media can put out any picture and the masses, (all of you) will believe it and come up with an incredibly stupid judgement without going any deeper. Kudos to those who actually attempted to look at both sides.


Do you honestly think this many people would not be at attention during colors? OR actually think that maybe they have been standing their for awhile so they were told to relax, as it was in the Middle of May, in Florida?
Not even going to try to dispel the rest of the repulsive tunnel vision ignorance.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

'Fraid the assertions are educated, but you don't seem to be. 

Position of attention or not, there is no alignment, no cover, some have towels, there are watches, and some have ID bands (on either arm), some don't.  There are some backpacks, at least one long-sleeve shirt, arms are crossed, and at least one pair of sunglasses (not prescription tints). 

A few thousand hours on the parade deck, guest, and you might understand what is supposed to be "uniform" about a uniform in formation.

Anonymous said...

Have you ever considered some were told to bring certain items while others were not? You've acting like these guys who have hardly been out of bootcamp should know all this, you are assuming this was a completely formal event and formation, yet they are in PT gear, and you automatically assumed that I was not credible I will assume that you actually have spent thousands of hours, but when was this? Obviously the priority was PT shirt with Navy logo, and short. You have no idea when this picture was taken, so for all you know they are still aligning. Watches to my knowledge are optional in any uniform, and so are ID bands.

<span>'Position of attention or not'</span>
'<span>arms are crossed'</span>
Keep contradicting yourself, and trying to call me the unintelligent one.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Well, perhaps you are starting to get a clue.  The issue here is not with the sailors in the formation.  It is with the NCO leadership.  Bring things to formation?  Fine.  While standing in formation, they get staged behind.  Twas ever thus.  Still is. 

Watches optional?  Nope.  Not in formation.  ID Bands?  They all have them in formation, or nobody has them in formation. 

These sailors look like pigs, and you make excuses for them.  Suit yourself.  If I ever walked out to this gaggle I would have some platoon sergeants with their heels locked.  Credibility?  Not if you are telling me that this is the way to hold formation.  Cuz it ain't.

My hours on the drill deck?  Small place in the south.  Parris Island.  It is rumored they march well there.  But hey, go find out for yourself.  And bring the P5060.20.

Anonymous said...

Well standards have changed then, because both watches and ID bands are optional.

I'm not saying it doesnt look like complete shit because it does, my point is people are throwing around a lot stupid remarks with out any actual insight.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"Optional" and "formation" are mutually exclusive.  Put the damned watches in a pocket or your left hand. 

You need more insight than the drill manual?  Do tell.

Anonymous said...

And there is your problem, you are quoting <span>P5060.20, a ceramonial drill handbook, you have no idea what the chain of command instructed, or once again, the fact that they are in PT gear.
</span>

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Drill and ceremonies, actually.  Which applies to all formations, regardless of uniform.  If the chain of command told them they can look like pigs, well, then, we know where the problem is, don't we?  You either do it right, or you learn how.

Anonymous said...

Well then I guess its not truely the sailors with less then 6 months of experience fault now is it."
"<span><span>Nope, the towel is on a woman's shoulder to the left of the "formation".   The guy with the sling was likely grievously wounded partitioning a hard drive or setting a time to live on a server, in an act of selfless heroism"</span></span>
Making rude, unwarrented comments like this, go right along with how the picture looks. So you aren't any better in my books. I dont care what service you're from being an ass to any branch for the job they do is disgraceful, and if you truely are experienced as you say, then it just makes it worse. As the rate on Corry Station that actually works with Hard drives (IT) is also in charge of radio, you know what you use when you are in the shit and need help. Making fun of the people who do their part, and save lives is amazing. And technology makes America the world power it is, not man-power.

Glad there are people like you in this world.

Goodbye.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

See ya.  Be sure to give my regards to Parris Island.

Aubrey said...

"<span>And technology makes America the world power it is, not man-power.  "</span>

Uhh...did you really say that?  Seriously?  Any ape can press a button, right?  It is the whizbang doohickey that makes the difference?  Training, esprit de corps, fighting spirit, these all mean nothing....  Damn, I REALLY hope you don't actually lead men in any kind of a fight because odds are your outlook and attitude will get a large number of them killed in the first exchange of fire.

It is because f people like you that we field a Tiffany Navy that is too valuable to risk, and to fragile to even take a shock test.

ewok40k said...

Well, tech is all good and well, but it takes discipline and skill to master the tech available. And even technologically superior forces can blunder under bad leadership.

Wow said...

<span>"Uhh...did you really say that?  Seriously?  Any ape can press a button, right?  It is the whizbang doohickey that makes the difference?"</span>

I dont think you understood my point, the effectiveness of our men and women in the field is decided by our technology, especially overseas. Intelligence is everything, without it we would be nowhere.

"<span> Training, esprit de corps, fighting spirit, these all mean nothing" I dont see anywhere where I said that. BUt esprit de corps is a bond right? thats why you shit talk your fellow military members positions right?

"</span><span>Uhh...did you really say that?  Seriously?  Any ape can press a button, right?" And this is why Im going to assume you arent in intelligence and never will be.
</span>

Aubrey said...

GuestWow...if you can't recognize sarcasm you must suck at your job.

ewok40k said...

if they cant keep formation using own bodies, how will the keep formation using warships?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

"<span><span>thats why you shit talk your fellow military members positions right?"</span></span>

That's right.  Because they're squids.  Geeky and undisciplined squids at that.  Good thing nobody pokes fun at Marines, or my Espirit de Corps might be crushed....

MR T's Haircut said...

Hard to defend the indefensible.. but they should have driven down Navy Blvd to NATTC Pensacola to see some discipline.  At least when I ran the schoolhouses, we could march and stand in ranks professionally.  I recall during the Hurricane Ivan time frame, one of my school houses and my staff moved over to Corry CID.. they LOVED us because we had a guidon, we held inspections in ranks, and we marched like professional Sailors.. not rabble... but those were the heady days of 2004....

MR T's Haircut said...

<span>shh you big ole jarhead... youre making the geeky IT guy mad.. he will delete your account..</span>
 

UltimaRatioRegis said...

THEN how would I download my porn?

SouthernAP said...

Really Gyrene afraid of losing your pr0n? Your pr0n is lusting over Chesty with while stripping down and deep cleaning an M1 Garand or M1903A3 Springfield and having the Gyrene Hymn played at level 11 on your barracks blaster or while holy stoning the deck in the barracks, listening to the opening half monologues from "FMJ" again at level 11. :-P

UltimaRatioRegis said...

You say that like there is something wrong with it!

Wow said...

Who said I'm an IT.

Not even going to point out the fallacies, sterotyping like a highschooler, but I guess thats why marines have the sterotype that they all barely have the education of a high schooler.

You can stick to thinking your tough shit, ill stick with my superior technology.

and FYI Theres a marine detachment who goes through the same course as the Navy, and Army. Might as well go call them pussy too because they have a better job then you, with a clearence.

SouthernAP said...

<span><span>If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner</span>
Omar Bradley</span><span><span></span><span>It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity.</span>
Albert Einstien<span>It is questionable if all the mechanical inventions yet made have lightened the day's toil of any human being.</span>
J.S Mill<span>Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards</span>
A. Huxley<span>The march of science and technology does not imply growing intellectual complexity in the lives of most people. It often means the opposite.</span>
T. Sowell

</span>

SouthernAP said...

<span><span><span>If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner</span>  
Omar Bradley</span></span>
<span><span></span><span><span></span><span>It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity.</span>  
Albert Einstien</span></span>
<span><span><span>It is questionable if all the mechanical inventions yet made have lightened the day's toil of any human being.</span>  
J.S Mill</span></span>
<span><span><span>Technological progress has merely provided us with more efficient means for going backwards</span>  
A. Huxley</span></span>
<span><span><span>The march of science and technology does not imply growing intellectual complexity in the lives of most people. It often means the opposite.</span>  
T. Sowell  
</span></span>

SouthernAP said...

For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
Old Proverb.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Wow,

There may be others, non-IT people, who hold clearances, too.  Just a chance. 

Guarantee the Marine Detachment there doesn't look like pigs in formation.  If they did, just once, the Platoon Sergeant would need suspenders to hold his trousers up, after the Company Gunny, First Sergeant, Platoon Commander, and Company Commander chewed off his a55. 

Stick to your technology.  That is probably for the best.

sid said...

You fight like you train...

Wow said...

http://www.pnj.com/article/20110603/NEWS12/110603008/Corry-Station-ceremony-notes-Battle-Midway-anniversary?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Picture 8 of 11 shows both Marines and Navy, Both look good to me.

But I would also like to say, look at the Marines wrists, some have watches.

This was taken today, at the same base.

Wow said...

The article I also believe explains why technology and intelligence is important. IF you know the significance of Midway I'm sure you will understand.

sid said...

<span>Intelligence is everything, without it we would be nowhere.  </span>

<span>Every</span>thing?...

<span>No</span>where?

Really?

Have you been spending too much time at Richey's?

Serously the value of intelligence is inestimable...but...<span>Every</span>thing?

Not then...

Or then...

Or <span>now</span>...

sid said...

<span> IF you know the significance of Midway I'm sure you will understand.</span>

Thanks for the shovel load to Newcastle Wow.

sid said...

<span> ill stick with my superior technology. 
</span>


Hmm...

Where have I heard that before as a proscription for winning wars..?

Oh yeah...

Of course there were a few technical difficulties that warped the plan.

But I suspect all that is lost on you Wow..as I suspect you have a hearty disdain for anything that isn't a "tech-no-fix"....

sid said...

One last thing Wow...

Your comments suggest that you believe your opponents are at the very best sadly ignorant...if not the usual outright stupid.

Well, let me clue you in on a little fact that will transcend from wars of old to your Matrix wannabe electrowar world...

The Enemy is <span>ALWAYS</span> smarter than you think.

If your forget that constant...Then you will get reminded when you get your ass whupped.

Case in point..

Here is an intel failure of the first order...post Midway...

Cipher it out...if you are <span>all</span> about intel....

SouthernAP said...

Tech has been defeated before and will always be defeated on its inital use. Just some dates to think about
French Forces in the Hundred Years war (better tech with the crossbow but beaten by the English Longbow)
War of Southern Agression had various forms of technological upheavels such as the CSS Virginia, the Sharpes Rifle, and the Gatling Gun.
Filippino Insurrection 1899's (Superior tech compared to a guerrilla force mainly armed with Bolos)
Mexican Punative Raid 1916. (Superior calvary with trucks and aircraft, but still beaten by cowboys on horses)
Jutland where the Germans had better guns but the British had better sailors
France 1940 better tanks and aircraft with the French Army, but still what happened?
Pacific War Submarine combat where we supposedly had better submarine torpedos
Pacific War we had radar and the Japanese didn't, still untill Cape Esprance they were able to defeat us in surface combat.
Korea where the PLAAF and NKAF had better aircraft in the MiG-15 vs the USAF F-84/F-80/F-86's and the USN's F4U/F9F/F2H/F3D's
Vietnam where we had better tech compared to VC and NVA, even though we won the battles only at times through superior firepower we still had issues in that conflict.
Desert Storm where we had the better air defense systems and still a 1950's era TBM was able to penetrate to kill some USANG units
Jugoslavia states x2 where an SA-6 was able to tag an F-16C and then an SA-6B was able to tag an F-117.
OEF/OIF the opfor was able to bet our better tech through going back to simple with IED's.

Tech is not and end all to conflict. Rather it is a tool. Those that depend on tech will only see losses to thier units and be reacting instead of acting.

Wow said...

Posting pictures of ships with holes in them mean absolutely nothing unless you are actually going to write an actual rebuttal along with them. You posted the Cole which makes no sense, as it was a policy error that let unauthorized people too close to the ship.

<span>"The Enemy is <span>ALWAYS</span> smarter than you think.  
 
If your forget that constant...Then you will get reminded when you get your ass whupped."</span>

Are you trying to prove my point here? WHy do you think you need superior intelligence?

Look at nuclear detterence, prime example where intelligence literally was everything, and still is.

The comment about Midway wasnt to be spiteful, I dont know who I'm talking to or whether they know the significance of it.

Posting all these pictures of "intel failures" just goes to prove how important it is to have proper intel.

Read Guns, Germs, and Steel. It explains why first of all food sources prompted superior nations, because they were able to focus on other things, which produced advanced technology. From the Club to the Bow to Guns and now rockets, technology has decided who will be superior.
Which I will not doubt that you know about the Cold War. An entire "war" fought as an arms race, and intelligence/counter-intel.

Wow said...

I never said it is an end all, there never will be an end to conflict, my entire point is tech power vs man power, as man power will ultimately always be based of technology.

Which got completely side tracked from my original point that its asinine to become concieted because your combat while they are intel. It's just a stupid argument that I think military members really need to get overthemselves about. One without the other is completely useless. I understand that you think IT's etc are pussies, but when it comes down to it and your on a ship, and the shit hits the fan. Your in the same situation as any other rate on that ship.

sid said...

<span>Posting pictures of ships with holes in them mean absolutely nothing unless you are actually going to write an actual rebuttal along with them. </span>

Hey...

You are the one about intelligence being <span>everything</span>...

Kinda figured you'd pick up my intent right away. And, since when did "intel" come in complete sentences and neat paragraphs?

<span>Are you trying to prove my point here? WHy do you think you need superior intelligence?  </span>

Which will never <span>ever</span> give you a "perfect" picture...

Those posted pictures say it all.

You are ate up with the mytholygy  of  the infallibility of... "The NETWORK"... Wow.

But thats coming from the very top, so its not really your fault.

Right scary to see how deeply imbedded its gotten though.

<span>Which I will not doubt that you know about the Cold War. An entire "war" fought as an arms race, and intelligence/counter-intel.</span>

Much of this audience...including me...lived it Wow. Heck, I even remember being in the same room with folks who had flown at Midway.

The reality wasn't that simple.

But...One Day...you'll grow to appreciate that.

I hope.

sid said...

<span> Your in the same situation as any other rate on that ship.</span>

Yeah.

And thats where something as seemingly assinine as discipline in ranks (which I bitched about having to do...but did without my arms crossed or a towel on my shoulder) pays off...

But. With "superior intelligence", you shouldn't get hit.

Right?

sid said...

<span>You posted the Cole which makes no sense, as it was a policy error that let unauthorized people too close to the ship.  </span>

Really?

Easy to say in hindsight.

James said...

WOW,

OK lets look at this simply.

Strength without the knowledge of where to apply it is worthless. Knowledge without the Strength to change anything is worthless.

So we have both.

Now i will QUESTION YOUR INTELLIGENCE FOR ARGUING WITH A MARINE ABOUT FORMATION AND DIESICIPLINE.

Its like arguing with a pitbull about how to chew a bone.

Some of what you say has merrit. However have you stopped to look at the big picture yet???

The Navy is spending millions on Diversity structure and douchebaggery, Millions more on appearing nice, AND BILLION on ships that they have STATED ARENT SUPPOSED TO EVER SEE COMBAT..........WHEN THEY ARE CALLED LITTORAL COMBAT SHIPS.

OH yea btw Guns, Germs and steel got some things wrong.

<span>"Which I will not doubt that you know about the Cold War. An entire "war" fought as an arms race, and intelligence/counter-intel."</span>
<span></span>
<span>Glad we didnt have to spend money on all those imaginary battalions, subs, ships, planes, or missiles........</span>
<span></span>
<span>Those Nukes could be built because somewhere someone mined the minerals, and built and weilded the weapons to give those scientist time to act.</span>

sid said...

<span><span>An entire "war" fought as an arms race, and intelligence/counter-intel.</span></span>

Sorry Wow, but more pics with no elaboration....

Contrast...

and

Compare....

Now tell me which trumped?

The near stone age kid on the ground?

or

The "Space Age" High Tech of the mightiest nation on Earth?

Like I said...It ain't that simple Wow.

LT B said...

I've been known to dabble in the intelligence world from time to time. 

Technology important?  Yep
HUMINT probably more important?  You betcha.  The reliance on cameras, radars, antennaes and such has resulted in failed field craft and data collection/analysis failures.  We have not cultivated agents in areas of importance because it is oh so hard, tends to be a bit messy and those sorts of people are rather, um flexible in their morals. 

Now the other point...  It is not just about the formation, but about the message.  That picture should have been one that showed pride and professionalism or one that emphasized leadership.  From the basics come the more difficult things.  Intel relies on due diligence, start early and build on it.

Byron said...

Wow, I've read what you've had to say and now I'll tell you this: technology is nothing without the man at the pointy end holding a rifle in his hand standing on the ground just won. It'll always take boots on the ground to declare the battle is won. Tech is a force multiplier, just as the Abrahms is a force mulitiplier, or the F-22, or the Flt 3 DDG. It's always going to be the iron discipline and willpower of the men and women at the sharp end of the fight that decides the battle...not your tech.

And before you get carried away dogging URR, keep in mind he's a Lt. Colonel who's been there and done that. When it comes to this warfare stuff, I'd say HE's the expert.

andrewdb said...

Cold War was just an arms race? 

What about Korea and Vietnam, to say nothing about the proxy wars in places like Angola and AFG?

Anonymous said...

i before e except after C