It is always useful after a few dozen spin cycles to go to the beginning and rebaseline the argument.
Remember what LCS was supposed to be a dozen years ago?
As of mid-2001 the Office of Naval Research was considering construction of a Littoral Combat Ship with a displacement of 500 to 600 tons. The LCS would have a draft of about three meters (9 feet), an operational range of 4,000 nautical miles, and a maximum speed of 50-60 knots.Remember the original promise about LCS? We all know what happened when the transformationalists got hold of it. Imagine if we had a leadership that instead were students of the last few hundred years of shipbuilding - and specifically understood the usefullness of understanding the lessons of cruiser development in the '20-30s and guided missile development in the '50s-60s. Evolution, not revolution.
Where do you think they might have started to look at a place to "evolve" and existing concept?
Mostly using our friend Eric's Naval Institute Guide to COMBAT FLEETS OF THE WORLD, 15th Edition, BTW, to see what I could dig up.
Sure it sounds funny - but the answers were all American, right in front of our face; the Saudi:
BADR Class Corvettes: (ex-PCG, 4-ships built in Tacoma, Wash starting in 1979) and AS SIDDIQ (ex-PGG, 9 ships built in Sturgeon Bay, WI starting in 1978).
- Displacement; 1,038 tons
- Length; 245'
- Draft; 8'9"
- Speed; 30kts
- Range; 4,000 nm @ 20kts
- Manning; 7 officers, 51 enlisted
- Armament:
-- 8 Harpoon
-- 1 76-mm/62.
-- 1 CIWS
-- 2 20-mm/40 Oerlikon
-- 1 88mm mortar
-- 2 40mm MK19 grenade launchers.
-- 6 ASW torpedoes in two MK-32 launchers.
AS SIDDIQ Class Guided-Missile Patrol Combatants
- Displacement; 495 tons
- Length; 190'
- Draft; 6'4"
- Speed; 34kts
- Range; 2,900 nm @ 14 kts
- Manning; 5 officers, 33 enlisted
Armament:
-- 4 Harpoon
-- 1 76-mm/62.
-- 1 CIWS
-- 2 20-mm/40 Oerlikon
-- 1 88mm mortar
-- 2 40mm MK19 grenade launchers.
LCS-1 Class:
- Displacement; 3,000 tons
- Length; 348'
- Draft; 12'10"
- Speed; 47kts
- Range; 3,500 nm @ 18 kts
- Manning; 75+ TBD
Armament:
-- 1 57 mm gun,
-- 4 .50-cal machine guns
-- 2 30 mm Mk44 Bushmaster
-- 1 RIM-116 RAM launcher
LCS-2 Class:
- Displacement; 2,784 tons
- Length; 418'
- Draft; 13'
- Speed; 44kts
- Range; 4,300 nm @ 18 kts
- Manning; 75+ TBD
Armament:
-- 1 57 mm gun,
-- 4 .50-cal machine guns
-- 2 30 mm Mk44 Bushmaster
-- 1 SeaRAM CIWS
Yes, I know, I did not include the weapons on the mission modules. Why? Well - they don't exist.
Why even bring this up? Simple. First - the Saudi design was over two decades old when the initial sparks came up for LCS. The original idea was for something size wise between the BADR and AS SIDDIQ. From the building of those two classes, we knew two things - you were going to be top-heavy and overweight if you were not careful. Knowing that and tweeking a few things - why didn't we do what we started out wanting to do and create an updated Corvette?
Of course, we know why - it wasn't "Transformational." We needed that big word to impress people with and fill up the FITREP white space. So, in the end what do we have? We have a real fast, short legged frigate that is incredibly underarmed and overpriced. To be useful for warfighting, you will need to put on more weight (shocker). That will decrease both your speed and range. You have something that can't quite perform as a frigate or a corvette - but we'll have a lot of them because, well, we will have a lot of them.
I look at the 30-yr old designs that the Saudi's have and what we have now and I just sigh. An evolved and modern 21st Century warship somewhere between the two designs, that would be what - 766 tons displacement?
LCS - the ship that keeps on giving .... bloggers things to blog about.
Hat tip an old friend.
BADR Class Corvettes: (ex-PCG, 4-ships built in Tacoma, Wash starting in 1979) and AS SIDDIQ (ex-PGG, 9 ships built in Sturgeon Bay, WI starting in 1978).
- Displacement; 1,038 tons
- Length; 245'
- Draft; 8'9"
- Speed; 30kts
- Range; 4,000 nm @ 20kts
- Manning; 7 officers, 51 enlisted
- Armament:
-- 8 Harpoon
-- 1 76-mm/62.
-- 1 CIWS
-- 2 20-mm/40 Oerlikon
-- 1 88mm mortar
-- 2 40mm MK19 grenade launchers.
-- 6 ASW torpedoes in two MK-32 launchers.
AS SIDDIQ Class Guided-Missile Patrol Combatants
- Displacement; 495 tons
- Length; 190'
- Draft; 6'4"
- Speed; 34kts
- Range; 2,900 nm @ 14 kts
- Manning; 5 officers, 33 enlisted
Armament:
-- 4 Harpoon
-- 1 76-mm/62.
-- 1 CIWS
-- 2 20-mm/40 Oerlikon
-- 1 88mm mortar
-- 2 40mm MK19 grenade launchers.
LCS-1 Class:
- Displacement; 3,000 tons
- Length; 348'
- Draft; 12'10"
- Speed; 47kts
- Range; 3,500 nm @ 18 kts
- Manning; 75+ TBD
Armament:
-- 1 57 mm gun,
-- 4 .50-cal machine guns
-- 2 30 mm Mk44 Bushmaster
-- 1 RIM-116 RAM launcher
LCS-2 Class:
- Displacement; 2,784 tons
- Length; 418'
- Draft; 13'
- Speed; 44kts
- Range; 4,300 nm @ 18 kts
- Manning; 75+ TBD
Armament:
-- 1 57 mm gun,
-- 4 .50-cal machine guns
-- 2 30 mm Mk44 Bushmaster
-- 1 SeaRAM CIWS
Yes, I know, I did not include the weapons on the mission modules. Why? Well - they don't exist.
Why even bring this up? Simple. First - the Saudi design was over two decades old when the initial sparks came up for LCS. The original idea was for something size wise between the BADR and AS SIDDIQ. From the building of those two classes, we knew two things - you were going to be top-heavy and overweight if you were not careful. Knowing that and tweeking a few things - why didn't we do what we started out wanting to do and create an updated Corvette?
Of course, we know why - it wasn't "Transformational." We needed that big word to impress people with and fill up the FITREP white space. So, in the end what do we have? We have a real fast, short legged frigate that is incredibly underarmed and overpriced. To be useful for warfighting, you will need to put on more weight (shocker). That will decrease both your speed and range. You have something that can't quite perform as a frigate or a corvette - but we'll have a lot of them because, well, we will have a lot of them.
I look at the 30-yr old designs that the Saudi's have and what we have now and I just sigh. An evolved and modern 21st Century warship somewhere between the two designs, that would be what - 766 tons displacement?
Littoral Combat Ship with a displacement of 500 to 600 tonsYep. And look what she became - one of the most dirty, nasty, ugliest things out there with an IR signature almost as great as its visual plume of coal-like smoke and a wake that will create enough bio-luminescence to read by.
LCS - the ship that keeps on giving .... bloggers things to blog about.
Hat tip an old friend.
