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I don't know if this was a sign of Rickovers humor or his total lack of tolerance for bullsh!t. I can easily see him calling that admiral to put him on the spot and show him the BS flag...
"Incidently, when admiral wards artilce came out I telephoned him and asked how many people in his office had volunteered to cheerfully to die for him, where upon he hung up on me."
Perhaps the funniest thing is that it's a JAG Admiral expounding upon leadersip. He must have read about it in a book somewhere. Probably plagiarized the quote too.
When I was at OCS Newport my class included the last group of NUPO-Charlies that were personally selected by Admiral Rickover. They all had their interview stories.
Rickover was the father of the nuclear navy, the Godfather of our submarine force (and carrier force if you really want to think about it), a visionary, a fantastic technical mind, and a jaded old man who hung on to his job waaay too long and long after he was relevant (just like Joe Paterno). I loved reading about his interactions with Lehman in "COMMAND OF THE SEAS."
Believe me, Rickover had a much higher bull$hit tolerance than most people realized. But it was all HIS bull$hit!
I had the "pleasure" of working with him on several issues in his latter years, and all I can say is that neither I, nor anyone else I was aware of, would have willingly died for him. But most of us would have been more than willing to have shot the s.o.b. in a heartbeat.
Pre internet. Pre email. Pre cell phones. Pre-easy & cheap photocopiers. It could and did take years sometimes before you ran in to minor quotes by minor players.
More lawyer bashing just because you can.... I am so happy my periodic peek back at this blog immediately reminded me why I seldom waste my time here. Guess what? JAGs wear the same uniform you all do (or did) and are motivated by the same values - dedication to service. They are "shipmates" and deserve to be treated as such. Now, let me shake the dust from this site off my sandals once again.
Guest, I've worked with several JAGs during my time and the experience was generally positive, especially with my last SJA (a former SWO) and the two gents at TSO SDGO who worked with me in getting "six, six, and a kick" for 8 of my ship's dirtbags. But, even though their uniform was the same as mine (except for the Line Officer's star), their priorities and experiences were not. And, other than the X-SWO SJA, I don't remember a lot of JAGs coming up to relieve the mid-watch.
A lawyer who cannot abide lawyer jokes is likely to find himself shunned by many. Don't take yourself or others so seriously. There's so much content here and only rare barbs at JAGs. I think I've also seen barbs at several other ratings, but I couldn't point you to them specifically.
Let me just say that his technical contributions to the service were huge. But that didn't make him any less of an a$$hole. However, I will grant you that he wasn't a perfect a$$hole, but only because nobody is perfect.
Marine 6 - I have a good friend that concurrs. He was a diesel boat submariner that was arbitrarily denied transition to nukes. The response after I sent him the image: <blockquote> I would agree that not one person in Rickover's organization would ever die for him! But, I probably could find at least a hundred submariners who would gladly kill him. In fact, many submarine commanders could rightly claim that their crews would gladly stuck with them in harm's way, knowing that the CO was a GREAT LEADER, and would make the right command choices to sink the enemy and move one step closer to winning the war. Rickover, in comparison, thought everyone else was lazy, slothful, stupid, and complacent, so he was "forced to threaten, fire, intimidate, and rule by fear." Believe me, he could not spell the word "LEADERSHIP" much less understand it. That is why the Submarine leaders before WW II disqualified LT H.G. Rickover for command, thus forcing him to become an EDO rather than leave the Navy. Of course, his letter to the JAG of the Navy was such a mockery of all that was good.
I don't know if this was a sign of Rickovers humor or his total lack of tolerance for bullsh!t. I can easily see him calling that admiral to put him on the spot and show him the BS flag...
ReplyDeleteleadership requires at least ounce of humor, especially regarding oneself
ReplyDeleteThat was helarious.
ReplyDelete"Incidently, when admiral wards artilce came out I telephoned him and asked how many people in his office had volunteered to cheerfully to die for him, where upon he hung up on me."
Perfect :-D
Either way, it IS hilarious!
ReplyDeletePerhaps the funniest thing is that it's a JAG Admiral expounding upon leadersip. He must have read about it in a book somewhere. Probably plagiarized the quote too.
ReplyDeleteByron--both?
ReplyDeleteWhen I was at OCS Newport my class included the last group of NUPO-Charlies that were personally selected by Admiral Rickover. They all had their interview stories.
ReplyDeleteI find in life that smart usually = very funny.
ReplyDeleteROTFLMAO! Best belly laugh I've had all week!
ReplyDeleteRickover was the father of the nuclear navy, the Godfather of our submarine force (and carrier force if you really want to think about it), a visionary, a fantastic technical mind, and a jaded old man who hung on to his job waaay too long and long after he was relevant (just like Joe Paterno). I loved reading about his interactions with Lehman in "COMMAND OF THE SEAS."
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, Rickover had a much higher bull$hit tolerance than most people realized. But it was all HIS bull$hit!
ReplyDeleteI had the "pleasure" of working with him on several issues in his latter years, and all I can say is that neither I, nor anyone else I was aware of, would have willingly died for him. But most of us would have been more than willing to have shot the s.o.b. in a heartbeat.
Any idea why Adm. Rickover waited 8 years to write about it? Adm Ward's quote is from 1960 and Adm Rickover's mail is from 1968.
ReplyDeletePre internet. Pre email. Pre cell phones. Pre-easy & cheap photocopiers. It could and did take years sometimes before you ran in to minor quotes by minor players.
ReplyDeleteMore lawyer bashing just because you can.... I am so happy my periodic peek back at this blog immediately reminded me why I seldom waste my time here. Guess what? JAGs wear the same uniform you all do (or did) and are motivated by the same values - dedication to service. They are "shipmates" and deserve to be treated as such. Now, let me shake the dust from this site off my sandals once again.
ReplyDeleteI am sure Rickover thought he just got it.
ReplyDeleteLighten up, Francis!
ReplyDeleteC'mon... if we can't poke fun at lawyers that only leaves congressmen and pimps. Don't take all the fun out of our day.
ReplyDeleteDude, you got to quit watching JAG re-runs...
ReplyDeleteGuest, I've worked with several JAGs during my time and the experience was generally positive, especially with my last SJA (a former SWO) and the two gents at TSO SDGO who worked with me in getting "six, six, and a kick" for 8 of my ship's dirtbags. But, even though their uniform was the same as mine (except for the Line Officer's star), their priorities and experiences were not. And, other than the X-SWO SJA, I don't remember a lot of JAGs coming up to relieve the mid-watch.
ReplyDeleteMarine6, Not "S.O.B."...it was "K.O.G." ;)
ReplyDeleteEveryone loves a humorless, self-righteous blow-hard! Especially with a JD!
ReplyDeleteA lawyer who cannot abide lawyer jokes is likely to find himself shunned by many. Don't take yourself or others so seriously. There's so much content here and only rare barbs at JAGs. I think I've also seen barbs at several other ratings, but I couldn't point you to them specifically.
ReplyDeleteKerr's book is available for only the shipping cost from a variety of sellers at Amazon if anyone wants to send a copy to our favorite JAG..... 8-)
ReplyDeleteSalty, If you liked that you'll love Elmo Zumwalt's description in <span>On Watch</span> of his interview with the "Kindly Old Gentleman".
ReplyDeleteLet me just say that his technical contributions to the service were huge. But that didn't make him any less of an a$$hole. However, I will grant you that he wasn't a perfect a$$hole, but only because nobody is perfect.
ReplyDeleteMarine 6 - I have a good friend that concurrs. He was a diesel boat submariner that was arbitrarily denied transition to nukes. The response after I sent him the image:
ReplyDelete<blockquote>
I would agree that not one person in Rickover's organization would ever die for him! But, I probably could find at least a hundred submariners who would gladly kill him. In fact, many submarine commanders could rightly claim that their crews would gladly stuck with them in harm's way, knowing that the CO was a GREAT LEADER, and would make the right command choices to sink the enemy and move one step closer to winning the war. Rickover, in comparison, thought everyone else was lazy, slothful, stupid, and complacent, so he was "forced to threaten, fire, intimidate, and rule by fear." Believe me, he could not spell the word "LEADERSHIP" much less understand it. That is why the Submarine leaders before WW II disqualified LT H.G. Rickover for command, thus forcing him to become an EDO rather than leave the Navy. Of course, his letter to the JAG of the Navy was such a mockery of all that was good.
</blockquote>