tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post5831101546120766382..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Iraq as it is ....CDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-16554802194880347882010-03-12T16:17:25.000-05:002010-03-12T16:17:25.000-05:00The decision to enter Iraq was coupled with the de...The decision to enter Iraq was coupled with the decision to cut taxes. You cannot do both. Spending a 160 billion a year for nine years put a big hole in the budget. And that is on top of the "normal" defense budget. Can you tell me with certainty that no aquisition decisions were postponed due to the war in Iraq? No you cannot. The whole purpse of so-called transformation was to free up money for the recapitalization of the services. It did no such thing-it freed up money to pay for the war. In the Navy at least, just about every major weapons program was kicked down the road.<br /><br />Arguing about the results of the 1990's and other things misses the point-that when we did go to war in Iraq, we failed to project the total cost and it did break our military. We are less ready to do the other things we should be doing militarily because we spent a decade or more ( and it will be a lot more) fighting the long war. Did China, or Russia or India do that? Or Europe? No-they got a free pass while their biggest competetor exhausted itself in a protracted struggle on behalf of, wait for it, .........Arabs.<br /><br />And tell us what we have won? We have a huge deficit run up as a result of ramped upped spending combined with reduced revenue because of tax cuts. The average American had to sacrifice very little to support the war. The Middle East has had elections galore-most of them have signfied nothing. ( Including Iraq's). Bottom line-they are still Arabs, they still believe in an apostate religion and they still rely on foreign labor to get any work done.<br /><br />I submit to you-that not for the war in Iraq, GWB might have been able to accomplish something domestically and I will also submit Obama would not have been President if there had been no war in Iraq. (So must of the flawed assumptions you make about "nationalized heatlh care would not have happened). More importantly and the only thing that matters to me-5000 Americans would be alive instead of dead. The real ramifications of the decision to invade Iraq are still being revealed, but as your childern grow up in the multi-polar world, competing with India, China and with Europe and Brazil-you can tell them in your old age that "the Grey haired Bush" gave you all that. Were it not for his obsession witha nation that had not attacked us-the process of the rise of our competetors might have been slowed. ( It cannot be stopped). But I am quite sure that if the US had focused more on itself instead of trying to change Arab regimes-more would be accomplished at home. When it comes to the Middle East- less is more.Skippy-sannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-15560178471488948792010-03-12T08:53:19.000-05:002010-03-12T08:53:19.000-05:00Skippy,
You didn't drink the kool-aid, you at...Skippy,<br /><br />You didn't drink the kool-aid, you ate the powder. Iraq caused us the subprime mortgage fiasco? I'll let Barney Frank know. Iraq caused skyrocketing costs of environmental regulation that helped drive companies overseas? Iraq gave us this contrived Global Warming nonsense that has cost this Republic tens of billions already for nothing? Iraq was the cause of a 30-year moratorium on building power generation, nuclear or otherwise, as we reached 70%, then 80%, then 95%, and now are near 100% of capacity in many areas with normal usage? Iraq caused us to try and nationalize our health care despite the overwhelming evidence that such a move would lead to rationing, drive costs up and quality down, or both? <br /><br />Iraq also led us to ignore the advice of what our military leaders thought a post-Cold War military should look like and slice it to ribbons in the name of a "peace dividend" and social spending? So that a deployment of fewer than 200,000 troops in a nation of almost 300 million souls should "break" our military? <br /><br />Iraq did all that? UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-82855302809612449412010-03-12T08:38:22.000-05:002010-03-12T08:38:22.000-05:00Yea I read the Newsweek article with disgust too-b...Yea I read the Newsweek article with disgust too-because all I could think was they finally drank the Kool-Aid. Victory this is not. And if it is a victory it is only victory for Iran-its not anything good for us.<br /><br />1) Just because Iraq had an election-does not mean that we benefit from that. As its shaping up Malaki will have to make so many deals with people who don't like us-its clear what ever government comes out can hardly be considered a US ally.<br /><br />2) Americans are still getting killed in Iraq.<br /><br />3)The Iraqis have made it pretty clear that they are now biding their time until we leave-then they will go back to their strongman ways. I'm not suprised, this is what Arabs do-they consistently screw up opportunities given to them.<br /><br />Friedman has been living in his multi million dollar house too long. The internal problems in Iraq are still serious. They probably will fall apart when we leave. And lets not forget that NOTHING has been solved with the Kurds.<br /><br />Plus you have ignored the real question-what was in it for us? Victory only has meaning if it advances the US agenda-not the Iraqis or any other Arab nations. The answer to that is that our objectives were accomplished long ago-by staying in the country for as long as we deed, we simply allowed the terrorist bug to spread throughout the world blood stream. Are we any safer? No. We have our own home grown Muslims now.<br /><br />Going into Iraq remains the collossal mistake of the first decade of the 21'st century. Furthermore the ongoing wars overseas-set the preconditions for a lot of our problems at home. And at the end of the day is the US any better off to compete with its real competitors on the world stage? No.<br /><br />That's not a victory. And don't forget the Brits won the Boer War too-they still lost South Africa ten years later.Skippy-sannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-6116881464097059982010-03-11T01:14:05.000-05:002010-03-11T01:14:05.000-05:00To add to this post, what responsibilty does the C...To add to this post, what responsibilty does the Clinton administration have for 9/11, and failing to bring the fight to the enemy when they had the chance.Wharf Ratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-67407559191751060442010-03-11T01:01:10.000-05:002010-03-11T01:01:10.000-05:00Anan:
Are you kidding me? The credit for the win...Anan:<br /><br />Are you kidding me? The credit for the win goes to the US Military and GWB. End of Story. If, as you say the GI's deserve credit for training the Iraqui's - then again, the credit goes back to the GI's.<br /><br />But the fact is we gave our most precious treasure of our service members, who gave their lives FIGHTING for the liberty of Iraq. If they fought - which they did, they get credit.<br /><br />It was the surge that GWB ordered that gave Iraqi's hope, which then caused the 'awakening'. That awakening cost the isurgents too much support to win. But it was the addition of an additional 30k in troups that sent a strong message to win.<br /><br />Whether we should have been there or not is not the argument I'm making here. To not give credit where credit is due is a crock.Wharf Ratnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-27479632850337167342010-03-11T00:12:15.000-05:002010-03-11T00:12:15.000-05:00Deficits don't matter as much when they are on...Deficits don't matter as much when they are only a small fraction of the GNP. Under Obama they will quickly add up until just "entitlements" and interest payments use up everything the the government can steal. That is exactly the goal of the left. <br /><br />Democrats left millions to die in SE Asia in order to get their political victory in 1975. They were eager to do the same in Iraq in 2007. The betrayal and deaths of our allies mean nothing to them if they can get a short term political gain out of it.<br /><br />Just curious. The left loves to blame Bush for 9/11 which happened less than eight months into his first term. At what point is Obama responsible for what happens?Old NFOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21527972996944522212010-03-10T23:39:54.000-05:002010-03-10T23:39:54.000-05:00As it was too early for anyone to predict "qu...As it was too early for anyone to predict "quaqmire" in iraq in 2003 (especially since a military decision was never in doubt...) ...it is also too early in 2010 to start high-fiving each other over "victory". Let's see how this plays out in 5-10 years. Iraq still has huge obstacles to overcome. Heck, it was going so badly by 2006 -- that EVEN Pres G.W. Bush realized it. <br /><br />It will be interesting to see if the Iraqis can *keep* tribal & religious differences at a level where they don't become major fault lines. <br /><br />The idea that Pres G.W. Bush will be seen as anywhere near the level of Pres Lincoln is simply laughable.<br /><br />Context, people -- and in this instance context = time. Jaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-57861030297523746492010-03-10T23:23:21.000-05:002010-03-10T23:23:21.000-05:00Of course not. That would mean admitting he was wr...Of course not. That would mean admitting he was wrong.xbradtcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-36760980172995115922010-03-10T22:24:37.000-05:002010-03-10T22:24:37.000-05:00Yes, an argument could certainly be made for that ...Yes, an argument could certainly be made for that viewpoint. I do tend to exhibit the well known Viking trait of flexibility of thought.SCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-4675189690907083192010-03-10T22:00:20.000-05:002010-03-10T22:00:20.000-05:00Nope, Phib. We are frozen on January 21st, 2009. ...Nope, Phib. We are frozen on January 21st, 2009. Where everything can be blamed on the previous administration and the current administration only takes the "credit" for "jobs saved". UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-73336643386172792262010-03-10T21:14:25.000-05:002010-03-10T21:14:25.000-05:00Who is borrowing again? This is, what 2QFY10, rig...Who is borrowing again? This is, what 2QFY10, right?cdrsalamandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-1323128320913559282010-03-10T20:36:23.000-05:002010-03-10T20:36:23.000-05:00Anon, if I was manufacturing a bogus reason to go ...Anon, if I was manufacturing a bogus reason to go into Iraq - WMDs - I would have made damn sure we would have "found some."<br /><br />Never mind the satellite imagery of tractor trailer caravans out of Iraq into Syria. Or the SEVENTY tons of nerve agents Jordanian security found in late 2003.<br /><br />Never mind EVERY intelligence service in the world believed Saddam had WMD.<br /><br />And never mind he had used them on the Kurds and Iranians.<br /><br />The important thing is you are smarter and better than us, you tosser. Keep up the moral preening.butchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-40240108473193921202010-03-10T20:30:16.000-05:002010-03-10T20:30:16.000-05:00Phib, I remember the same @55#@ts fighting Reagan ...Phib, I remember the same @55#@ts fighting Reagan in the 80s then taking credit for the demise of the USSR, claiming to be bipartisan Cold Warriors. I've hated them for going on 20+ years. I hate the current crop as much.<br /><br />But it's okay - the hate keeps me warm.butchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-30839535475785551322010-03-10T15:38:11.000-05:002010-03-10T15:38:11.000-05:00Tim, you don't seem to realise that, as they d...Tim, you don't seem to realise that, as they don't think like Anon, they simply do not deserve freedom, or perhaps, even life.SCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-62628274703171052442010-03-10T14:58:12.000-05:002010-03-10T14:58:12.000-05:00Amazing, but at each and every turn the US Militar...Amazing, but at each and every turn the US Military has accomplished the impossible, at least according to the media and political oppoents of the war. The Friedman quotes are particularly pertinent, as they are a prime example of the myopic and slanted view of events and conditions in Iraq. <br /><br />Finding Saddam and bringing him to trial, transfer of sovereignty, provisional government, 2005 elections, Anbar Awakening, not giving in to Sunni-Shia tensions and civil war, and now, this election.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-25573422208952862222010-03-10T14:28:56.000-05:002010-03-10T14:28:56.000-05:00Sometimes wrong decisions yield good effects - Col...Sometimes wrong decisions yield good effects - Columbus was wrong in setting out to Asia, but if he didnt he would not find America. So enough of the WMD debate. The true - if any - problem is that Iraq detracted from US ability to finish the task in AFG, forcing it to rely on not-all-are-reliable allies in NATO. Overall verdict? As Mao when asked of his opinion of French Revolution - too early to decide. GWB will certainly end up in history because of 9/11 , but as hero or villain is yet to be decided. In Iraqi books he will be laways GWB the liberator, that is one I can say.ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-68313281183253456662010-03-10T14:26:00.000-05:002010-03-10T14:26:00.000-05:00Everytime I see more purple fingers, I smile. Kee...Everytime I see more purple fingers, I smile. Keep it up Iraq, healing and growth will follow!Desert Sailornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-16438560648959174132010-03-10T12:53:43.000-05:002010-03-10T12:53:43.000-05:00While I think that the Last Stand of the 44th is o...While I think that the Last Stand of the 44th is one of the coolest images produced by Victorian Britain, I'm not sure its necessarily the right analogy. Siege of Malta would have been better I think. However, it lacks such a great image to use.Billnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21237679055292387472010-03-10T12:47:17.000-05:002010-03-10T12:47:17.000-05:00"...three tax cuts and a HUGE unfunded medica..."...three tax cuts and a HUGE unfunded medical obligation for prescription drugs was authorized, all while the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan never appeared in the annual budget..."<br /><br />That and the original bank bailout helps explain the huge budget defict that Obama inherited, that Republicans are suddenly "outraged" over. Please. I consider myself liberal and only criticize GWB's method for paying for it all. He wanted to conduct the war on the cheap and used the supplemental spending bills as political weapons to criticize anyone who would vote against it as being soft on terrorism and not supporting the troops. He cut taxes and incresaed spending (typical republican MO), what did you think was going to happen?<br /><br />VP Cheney remarked during a cabinet meeting, "...As Reagan said, deficits don't matter." But now suddenly it does, when the other party is in the White House. Interesting.<br /><br />Liberals= tax and spend<br />Conservatives= borrow and spendB-nonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-90061679264442537682010-03-10T12:43:07.000-05:002010-03-10T12:43:07.000-05:00I bet he thinks you're an Oracle now!I bet he thinks you're an Oracle now!DeltaBravonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-55237086883080094452010-03-10T12:15:13.000-05:002010-03-10T12:15:13.000-05:00In late 2003, early 2004 my boss, a solid Republic...In late 2003, early 2004 my boss, a solid Republican, was quick to jump on the despair wagon as the insurgency gained steam.<br /><br />"We'll never win."<br /><br />My reply?<br /><br />"Six to nine years- that's how long most insurgencies last."xbradtcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-13600083322027208362010-03-10T11:56:18.000-05:002010-03-10T11:56:18.000-05:00That's why we need to contain and reeducate th...That's why we need to contain and reeducate the leftists. It's for the children, you know? ;) <br /><br /> And Matthew, the only drivel is coming from the left these days. It seems that that is all they have to offer. Besides Chicago-mob politics.AW1 Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-49507220080394088172010-03-10T11:32:06.000-05:002010-03-10T11:32:06.000-05:00Geez, CDR, you got a direct newsfeed to Dkos and D...Geez, CDR, you got a direct newsfeed to Dkos and DU? :)Byronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-63748129357241249022010-03-10T11:29:28.000-05:002010-03-10T11:29:28.000-05:00More partisan bs yet again. You can go on any webs...More partisan bs yet again. You can go on any website and see this drivel from the left and right. This country will never regain its status when it is actually 2 countries in one with separate agendas.Matthew Scottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-23319188738198615562010-03-10T10:57:28.000-05:002010-03-10T10:57:28.000-05:00'Your side engineered a defeat from a solid vi...'Your side engineered a defeat from a solid victory in Vietnam, which led directly to the deaths of millions and the enslavement of that nation today'<br /><br />EXACTLY right, AW1Tim. Now, we have been here before. We've seen it, like you said, in Vietnam. We have seen it twenty years ago with the fall of the Wall. We've seen it just recently with the GW pipe dream falling apart. And we are seeing it now in Iraq.<br /><br />I say, done with the fair play. Time to rub these *ssholes nosed in the truth. We should not let the left get away with this AGAIN.Outlaw Mikenoreply@blogger.com