tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post5367698164530035364..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Sheehan's Unsightly Smear ...CDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger117125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-48089983446693367122013-03-21T17:07:42.009-04:002013-03-21T17:07:42.009-04:00Κагmа, the enlіghtened onе testament be has beеn a...Κагmа, the enlіghtened onе testament be has beеn a <br />ԁearie sincе she was сreated іn 2006.<br /><br />evеry parent ωho іs a cοmputing deνice <br />drug user bеlievably has Parаdiѕ, EЅWC <br />cоntest manаgеr, stateԁ that the level of <br />bіotiс соmmunity rеenfоrсеment, and besides recognitiοn of the reality, <br />is the reаson whу DоtA iѕ selected.<br /><br /><br />Mу webpage; <a href="http://getsmarq.com/index.php?do=/blog/174179/free-online-games-for-kids-what-s-your-high-score/" rel="nofollow">game</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-16877758449262292592010-03-30T11:59:29.000-04:002010-03-30T11:59:29.000-04:00Sheehan apologized! To a fellow marine general:
...Sheehan apologized! To a fellow marine general:<br /><br /><a href="http://content1a.omroep.nl/7a16359422c78001a65bc45d653b5ee0/4bb21c5a/nos/docs/290310_brief_sheehan.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://content1a.omroep.nl/7a16359422c78001a65bc45d653b5ee0/4bb21c5a/nos/docs/290310_brief_sheehan.pdf</a>Theodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-68797147254189258202010-03-27T07:19:49.000-04:002010-03-27T07:19:49.000-04:00CDR, Salamander, are you sure the cuffing soldiers...CDR, Salamander, are you sure the cuffing soldiers to poles is correct for Srebenica? I rather had the impression that shameful episode was somewhere else in the Yugoslavian theatre, so including it can be seen as possible smear/lie #1, this can have been a honest mistake.<br /><br />Unionization of the Dutch military a reaction to the end of the Cold War? The oldest Dutch military unions date back to the 19th century, smear/lie #2.<br /><br />"Allowing gays to serve" a reaction to the end of the Cold War? The Dutch stopped the use of homosexuality as a way to dodge the draft in 1974 and never looked back. So they claim now to have been the FIRST to openly allow gays to serve openly, Sheehan denied that there had been decades of gays serving openly in the Dutch forces smear/lie #3. <br /><br />He claimed that his source would have been a chief of staff fired by parliament, there is no such critter, smear/lie #4.<br /><br />He was unable to name his source correctly, but the name and function point to the only Dutch 4 star marine general in history, who himself was not directly caught up in the scandal (the loss of job attributed to him by Sheehan points to an amy general, both claim not to have said anything like that). Now Sheehan had no reason to screw up the name of his source, so we can safely say that this might just have been a honest error, but it shows that he is not a source to be trusted blindly concerning the Dutch military. The statements he attributed to the Dutch source are however clearly serving Sheehan's point of view, and are about as likely to have been made by a high Dutch ranking officer, who was happily visiting the military gay meetings to stay informed (about, say, a rise of homophobia), as Sheehan himself stating "We would have defeated the Vietcoons, if not for the {N-words} in our army" as a witness before congress. Smear/lie #5.<br /><br />The Dutch reaction did not seem angry to me, in relation to the enormity of the falsehoods stated by Sheehan.Theodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-74005790700919815142010-03-24T11:19:09.000-04:002010-03-24T11:19:09.000-04:00The real scandal is the ROE from the UN. Here'...The real scandal is the ROE from the UN. Here's a good description from someone who was there:<br /><br /><br />http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2010/03/beyond-rainbow-tempest.htmlAndrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-52444295182854764162010-03-23T11:50:49.000-04:002010-03-23T11:50:49.000-04:00Cdrsalamander, I don't need to get out more. ...Cdrsalamander, I don't need to get out more. Your comparison of Detroit with Amsterdam has no merit here. It actually proves my point. I have been to that shithole and was not a bit impressed with it. Given that they are all so well educated, one might wonder why they are taught nothing about conventional morality and proper conduct. their sociailist education teaches them that they owe no one anything, the individual is everything, and their military is a microcosm of all that is wrong with their country. Every whackjob who wants to be different screams and whines, and the Dutch kiss their asses in a frightened manner rather than be pointed out as sexist, racist, ethnicist, whatever other -ist might apply, rather than telling everyone to shut the fuck up, ruck the fuck up, and ante up. the same is happening in our country right now too, but faster. And as I have actually seen the operations of their land forces, and know what they are all about, unless you have more experience in that department than I, DO NOT even lecture me. I grasp the concept that the military is about subverting one's personal will and welfare for the good of the group, mission, country. THEY DO NOT.USMC Stevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-48638329820140126292010-03-22T17:22:28.000-04:002010-03-22T17:22:28.000-04:00Now, for another take on the subject:
http://cmr...Now, for another take on the subject: <br /><br />http://cmrlink.org/HMilitary.asp?docID=378<br /><br />Sorry, but I don't see where he smeared the Dutch. He's telling it the way he sees it, which is what a witness before Congress is supposed to do.sobersubmrnrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-49447519599972317602010-03-22T14:58:08.000-04:002010-03-22T14:58:08.000-04:00The evidence has been that it is hard to enforce r...The evidence has been that it is hard to enforce rules when doing so can be presented as a form of persecution against a particular group and/or if those rules bump up too hard against either human nature or what people think of as being relatively harmless activities. <br /><br />One needs to be mindful that there are limits to what laws and programs can enforce, and that certain things can be inherently unworkable. Prohibition was an obvious example. The various fascist and communist dictatorships had unlimited power available to them; they could enforce verbal agreement and outward compliance with their dictates, but they couldn't make anyone actually love or believe in Big Brother...they proved very good though at getting people to not give a damn, which is why their societies failed.Anthony Mirvishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-73786952508281938092010-03-22T13:47:44.000-04:002010-03-22T13:47:44.000-04:00URR and Byron are both on target. Sorry Andrew, w...URR and Byron are both on target. Sorry Andrew, warriors don't hide behind ROE's when a command decision has to be made on the spot and in the moment. Can anyone here imagine a world where US Marines, regardless of circumstances, would allow themselves to be handcuffed to utility poles while civilians are led to slaughter? Here's an article of faith that has been passed down for over 235 years from one generation of Marines to the next: You can not always preserve your life but you can always preserve your honor. There is no excuse for the cowardice displayed by the Dutch in Srebrenicia.<br /><p><span><span></span></span></p>OnceAMarinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-47119098451146769302010-03-22T09:03:31.000-04:002010-03-22T09:03:31.000-04:00East Coast is Correct, he was the first CO of DDG ...East Coast is Correct, he was the first CO of DDG 995, there is a funny story about rule 3 that I will tell you sometimeTom Mowrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-31262341088989886862010-03-22T06:15:00.000-04:002010-03-22T06:15:00.000-04:00Well, Andrew,
Next time General Sheehan testifies...Well, Andrew,<br /><br />Next time General Sheehan testifies in the hallowed halls, I will remind him that instead of being truthful he needs to only say that which is politically palatable, and to check with you first. UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-31392707343982071632010-03-22T01:12:54.000-04:002010-03-22T01:12:54.000-04:00Yes, Gen Sheehan served honorably, which is why it...Yes, Gen Sheehan served honorably, which is why it so dissapointing when he says something stupid like this in retirement. Smedley Butler served very honorably, too, and I don't think his retirement was what he hoped it would be. I am sorry you didn't join our host and Galrahn at the West conference when I bought them a round. Next year I'll buy one for you.Andrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-27535009352777445502010-03-21T20:21:54.000-04:002010-03-21T20:21:54.000-04:00ab,
I don't much care whether you served or n...ab,<br /><br />I don't much care whether you served or not. Either way, General Sheehan HAS served, and honorably. Dragging his reputation and character through the mud because you don't like one of his honestly-expressed assertions doesn't wash whether you did or not.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-53828375372103483312010-03-21T16:53:07.000-04:002010-03-21T16:53:07.000-04:00PS - As a 24 year member of the bar, I look forwar...PS - As a 24 year member of the bar, I look forward to the opportunity to discuss Con Law with you some time.andrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-76647209429287326542010-03-21T16:52:05.000-04:002010-03-21T16:52:05.000-04:00URR - You don't know if I served or not. Ask ...URR - You don't know if I served or not. Ask our host about me next time you see him in meatspace. I may not be a Marine, but it is the smallest service, so a lot of people aren't Marines. In fact, the latest figure I've heard is that 99% of the population isn't serving, more is the pity.andrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-33798940492063007682010-03-21T16:34:13.000-04:002010-03-21T16:34:13.000-04:00URR, One of the reasons that I support the repeal ...URR, One of the reasons that I support the repeal of DADT, as I've written here before, is that the current policy limits a commander's discretion and allows shirkers a way out of deployments, service, etc. Moreover, since most policies of this type are aimed at controlling behavior, being able to apply the anti-fraternization sections of the UCMJ to gays and lesbians in the military at levels lower than the "nuclear option" of discharge will be helpful.<br /><br />Your example is a good one about the complications of trying to control behavior of military personnel, although it tells me as much about the Captain's chain of command as it does about her and the CWO. Yes, the Diversity community will create a new "protected class" when the policy is repealed so folks in leadership positions need to be ready to deal with this fact. The Diversity community has existed since I was an Ensign so I doubt if they or the way they act is going to go away just because it pi55es us off. A good commander who treats his/her personnel fairly and who has a boss with a little bit of backbone should be able to weather the storm. If not, life after retirement isn't so bad.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-74763667322813265982010-03-21T16:19:31.000-04:002010-03-21T16:19:31.000-04:00Assume that he was an East Coast CO since I didn&#...Assume that he was an East Coast CO since I didn't know about him (I was in DC and a West Coast XO in the early '80s). BTW, I agree with rule #3 as well. C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-59172314219192998182010-03-21T16:10:35.000-04:002010-03-21T16:10:35.000-04:00Harry Maxner, he had too nick names Maximum Maxner...Harry Maxner, he had too nick names Maximum Maxner, and High Voltage, there was also a third rule...do not let his ship look like crap ever...Tom Mowrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-57022322637604150052010-03-21T15:50:54.000-04:002010-03-21T15:50:54.000-04:00Tom, Who was your first CO? Sounds like he and I ...Tom, Who was your first CO? Sounds like he and I would have agreed on some things.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8387668178631200902010-03-21T14:54:27.000-04:002010-03-21T14:54:27.000-04:00<span>C-Dore,
Here's hoping you are r...<span>C-Dore, <br /> <br />Here's hoping you are right. But all it takes is a big gulp of the Euro-Kool aid and who knows what we would be willing to do and not do? <br /> <br />It is probable that, in 1990, if you were told that the 570-ship US Navy would be precisely half that size in twenty years, with much reduced counter-mine capability, half the amphibs, and little more than 25% of the auxiliaries, you would have found such assertions to be highly unlikely. Yet, here we are.</span>UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-79007094573356196522010-03-21T14:53:12.000-04:002010-03-21T14:53:12.000-04:00C-Dore,
Here's hoping you are right. But all...C-Dore,<br /><br />Here's hoping you are right. But all it takes is a big gulp of the Euro-Kool aid and who knows what we would be willing to do and not do?<br /><br />It is probable that, in 1990, if you were told that the 570-ship US Navy would be precisely half that size in twenty years, with much reduced counter-mine capability, half the amphibs, and little more than 25% of the auxiliaries, you may not have found such to be highly unlikely. Yet, here we are.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-60589036291112681122010-03-21T13:17:49.000-04:002010-03-21T13:17:49.000-04:00URR, 15 years ago I was a NATO planner and can gua...URR, 15 years ago I was a NATO planner and can guarantee you that the US wasn't about to agree to those restrictive ROE. Since then we've only become more firm in that regard.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14147457667492218002010-03-21T11:20:38.000-04:002010-03-21T11:20:38.000-04:00CNFO,
Nobody is "blaming gay people" an...CNFO,<br /><br />Nobody is "blaming gay people" and you know it. The problem with the Diversity Dictators is that they create a climate of fear regarding the enforcement of regulations against their particular victim group du jour. See: Ft Hood, USNA. <br /><br />So please, don't tell me that allowing gays in the military to serve openly is simply a matter of rules enforcement. They will bring with them an advocacy and activist apparatus that will in many ways prevent honest attempts to do just that, at the cost of the careers of those trying to do the enforcing. <br /><br />Those considerations are on top of myriad cultural, legal, fiscal, and above all, READINESS issues that should be very carefully and honestly considered.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-9509401011743692682010-03-21T10:26:31.000-04:002010-03-21T10:26:31.000-04:00Failure to enforce fraternization rules doesn'...Failure to enforce fraternization rules doesn't make it something else. Frat is still frat, regardless of whether leadership leads, or fails to lead. Don't blame gay people for the inability of straight people to follow and/or enforce the UCMJ. Start enforcing the regulations, and the military won't have frat problems.Combat NFOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-15261974901733576862010-03-21T09:44:53.000-04:002010-03-21T09:44:53.000-04:00Point taken on the fraternization issue, but it ap...Point taken on the fraternization issue, but it appears the problem here is that the rules are not enforced. That is a different issue. So when I say fraternization is fraternization, it is against the rules straight or gay. Enforce the rules and have some consequences and people will comply. Here is an example. My first Captain had two simple rules; don't do drugs, and don't be late. There were no excuses for either behavior. He told me this when I was doing my check in as a young seaman apprentice. He also told me what the consequences would be. 45, 45 and 1/2 amonth for two. This was not a hollow threat. If you were one minute, one hour or one day late it did not matter. He followed through with the consequences. XOI and Captains Mast. was usually the same day of the offence.<br />If you got popped on a pee test again no excuses you were going on restriction. As a result we had an extremely low drug use rate and I can barely remember anyone being late.<br />In another example I can remember doing my PQS for Messenger of the Watch and Petty Officer of the Watch and being asked what I would do if there was a race riot on the mess decks. I joined in 1981 and I was told that this had been a problem in the late seventies and that is why we just needed to be prepared in case.<br />The same arguments have been used against intergration, and women in the military.<br /><br />Perhaps I oversimplified, but I think that if you make rules about <strong>what is acceptable behavior, have consequences and then follow through with the punishments</strong> this will work. I will go back to my original comment on this topic. It's not who you do it's what you do. Of course that is just my opinion and we all know the about opinions.Tom Mowrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-18866818849697287922010-03-21T08:42:35.000-04:002010-03-21T08:42:35.000-04:00<span>"<span> So what changes if ...<span>"<span> So what changes if gay soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are allowed to serve openly? Nothing. We will still be an effective force. The military is not going to become a bunch of sissys, nancys or mamby pampbys. All the other rules will still apply. Fraternization is fraternization, uniform codes are uniforms codes. The United States military is the most professional fighting force in the world. "</span> <br /> <br />Those are some fair-sized assumptions, too large to not investigate very thoroughly and objectively before a change in policy. Especially with the hash the Diversity Nazis will make of having yet another politically protected victim group to advocate for, one that has its own very loud and very anti-military advocacy groups already. For if we are wrong, and the Law of Unintended Consequences rules the day, we have done damage that cannot be undone. Such a bill is ALWAYS paid for with lives on a battlefield. <br /> <br />Uniform Codes are Uniform Codes? There is that pesky Article 125. We shall see. Fraternization is <a href="http://blog.usni.org/2009/12/28/whats-really-wrong-here/" rel="nofollow">not always fraternization</a>, either.</span>UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.com