tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post4380528975511597079..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: The Big SmearCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-33303097466253279472010-07-06T13:56:55.000-04:002010-07-06T13:56:55.000-04:00What is objectionable about this movie is that its...What is objectionable about this movie is that its sole purpose appears to be forwarding a political agenda using a group that is not accurately portrayed and that probably does not care to have itself used for such political purposes. They could not stop the war from starting, so now they will show what the war hath wrought. Very disingenuous and deceptive, and follows a long line of very similar Hollywood scripts since Viet Nam. Why not have a movie about the families of Iraqis whose relatives were thrown off bridges with their hands handcuffed behind their back or Kurds whose families were gassed by the chemical agents Saddam "never had." But that won't sell in suburbia or anyplace that is not Oceanside, California or Fayetteville, NC and even there they don't need to see the movie because they have lived it and understand that the rest of the country knows virtually nothing about where they have been. Even movies like "The Hurt Locker" attempt to show soldiers as reckless and unbalanced. Hollywood is garbage in nearly anything they do. Even the favor they would argue they are doing in making veterans with problems visible is a backhanded slap. San Diego Sailornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-16097399126449603752010-07-06T03:00:06.000-04:002010-07-06T03:00:06.000-04:00Regardless... it isn't about who or how "...Regardless... it isn't about who or how "wounded" our vets come home - be it PTSD, bad dreams, moments of anger, confusion, doubt, fear, or helplessness... It's about the portrayal; one movie begets two, begets three, becomes an icon and a generation of 100 million that live the war thru the "reality" of those movies that have ABSOLUTELY ZERO idea what happened. Truth be told, everyone comes home changed from war, period - there are no pussies - just DIFFERENT men and women. Truth be told, there are those that have worse experiences, and those that are'nt so bad, but you'll never know the difference because everyone reacts differently, and deals with their memory in their own way. A battle buddy gets you close, but not all the way.. he may have been right next to you, and still think something completely different went down. <br /><br />What is harmful about movies like this is that they may reach a very few, but pollute an awful lot in believing a lie - that we are all the same; that we all see every kinetic action thru the exact same lens, that the man standing next to you has the same recollection of the same moment, and yes, that we all walk away damaged to the core.<br /><br />I don't care about the politics. I'm just tired of being told I'm broken; tired of being asked stupid questions, and tired of people making assumptions. Ask me where I've been, and what I've seen - I'll tell you it's nothing compared to my brothers. And I'll tell you it's nothing compared to theirs, and I'll gladly tell you specifics.. without waving a gun, without getting angry, and mostly likely without getting arrested or trying to off myself. I'll also tell you that it isn't my right to judge them, or their actions. Before, during, or after. Like I said... we sign to serve, and live with the aftermath, only because we know that someone had to.. who else is going to do it?<br /><br />Humans, people - same genus, but all individual. Founded more than a few countries on that principal. <br />MHOsh60bpopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-9576189215960804512010-07-06T01:13:24.000-04:002010-07-06T01:13:24.000-04:00URR - your father's experience sounds very sim...URR - your father's experience sounds very similar to my grandfather's. Seeing the handwriting on the wall, he went active duty the year before Pearl Harbor and returned from the Pacific with 7 stars on his Asia-Pacific campaign ribbon. My grandmother let slip once that he still had nightmares (this would have been in the late 1980s). After he died (in 2003, at the age of 99) I pulled his VA file as part of a genealogy project. The write up from when he returned in 1945 was severe PTSD (in today's terminology). Yet he managed to live a very productive and full life for some 50+ years after WWII.<br /><br />One of the chaplains around here points out that one difference was that in the past returning vets joined the Lodge or the VFW or the American Legion, and then spent years doing what today we call "group work" with their freinds and peers.Andrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-54119316687906312912010-07-05T18:50:07.000-04:002010-07-05T18:50:07.000-04:00here here.....here here.....MR T's Haircutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-51770593429928964772010-07-05T18:45:54.000-04:002010-07-05T18:45:54.000-04:00AC,
Strength is a virtue. If you don't belie...AC,<br /><br />Strength is a virtue. If you don't believe there is any difference between weak and strong I want you nowhere near me or any of my Marines when the shooting starts. The bottom line is that we must have strength of character and personality to fight and win our wars. <br /><br />The portrayal you see in the movie clip, and the attitudes I have found in several places regarding military veterans returning from combat (and a disturbingly large number who never saw or heard ROUND ONE being fired but somehow managed to get PTSD) is CRAP.<br /><br />I want my Marines to be treated like they deserve, not like some poor simp too stupid to have avoided service or some victim of terrible misfortune to have deployed overseas.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-85134496687339917132010-07-05T18:33:07.000-04:002010-07-05T18:33:07.000-04:00AC,
ask the Chinese when they come to your town h...AC,<br /><br />ask the Chinese when they come to your town how they were so effective.. They will say in Mandarin, cause you so easily crybaby! You make easy to take your land.. now go to your hut you must make factory tommorrow....MR T's Haircutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-39452882414247616992010-07-05T18:11:09.000-04:002010-07-05T18:11:09.000-04:00AC - have you ever actually been in the military ....AC - have you ever actually been in the military .... because you are having a very hard time understanding any of the "nuance" in comments here. .... or you intentionally acting this way because you find it fun to act like a troll.<br /><br />Either way - you should think more and emote less.CDR Salamandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21640286648584320402010-07-05T17:57:18.000-04:002010-07-05T17:57:18.000-04:00URR, "Cut the crap." Bottom line: There...URR, "Cut the crap." Bottom line: There are people that need help. You're adding to the stigma of mental health care in the military.Alpha Checknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-34760853305510316262010-07-05T17:55:56.000-04:002010-07-05T17:55:56.000-04:00Vets here now claim to be stressed by two online p...Vets here now claim to be stressed by two online postings, and you just want them to toughen up. OK. Sounds like they're a little sensitive, and easily lash out with comments like "cut the crap." Hmm. It's tough when veterans themselves demonstrate the characteristics they say aren't appropriate. I'm not saying you have PTSD because of a web posting, but it sounds like a disproportionate response to a comment.Alpha Checknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-29460552299223704782010-07-05T17:27:07.000-04:002010-07-05T17:27:07.000-04:00AC,
You know good and well that my statements abo...AC,<br /><br />You know good and well that my statements about not living in a trailer park, etc., were a commentary on the Hollywood portrayal of US servicemen. If you don't, perhaps some deep thinking on your part is in order. <br /><br />Perhaps the young soldiers hearing that their problems aren't unique and that having some trouble with the aftereffects of combat is perfectly natural, and hearing those things from other veterans and not psychologists who treat them as if they are unfortunates will be the help they need. <br /><br />Perhaps giving into the psychobabble victim mantra is indeed crap.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-49083595785389758002010-07-05T17:26:34.000-04:002010-07-05T17:26:34.000-04:00Do you realize how insultingly patronizing you sou...Do you realize how insultingly patronizing you sound? Adults do not like being treated as children.<br /><br />You should read B.G. Burkett's "Stolen Valor" with a focus on PTSD. Then you might understand why YOU are causing some of the vets here stress.CDR Salamandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-41663685406983725952010-07-05T16:45:26.000-04:002010-07-05T16:45:26.000-04:00AC, get some nuts... you and Mike need to harden ...AC, get some nuts... you and Mike need to harden up.. Yalu River 1950's come to mind. MR T's Haircutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-28210173904919851832010-07-05T14:27:29.000-04:002010-07-05T14:27:29.000-04:00Nice chatting with a veteran in a respectful manne...Nice chatting with a veteran in a respectful manner. I appreciate your comments. If you're busy thinking deeply, perhaps you should avoid knee jerk phrases like "cut the crap." There are real problems that need to be dealt with. Statements like: "<span>Occasionally, we don't live in trailers, don't get drunk and discharge firearms, beat our wives, turn to drugs or crime or anything. " don't help anything. We're all well aware that there are many veterans that don't have issues re-integrating with society, we're also aware of the many examples where some counseling could have prevented a catastrophic event. If you'd stop telling people to "cut the crap," perhaps those young soldiers would seek the care they need.</span>Alpha Checknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-376407080282121282010-07-05T14:06:38.000-04:002010-07-05T14:06:38.000-04:00Exactly! It's not about being a "victim....Exactly! It's not about being a "victim." And the same press that tries to tell these men they're "broken" is the same one that loves to hammer away at the wars themselves and tell those same vets that all their loss and suffering was in vain. I once saw a video where Marcus Luttrell gave a talk and he said his doctor was trying to tell him he had PTSD (and if anyone had a right, PO Luttrell did). He said he was fine till he turned on the tv and listened to the naysayers there. <br /><br />Probably more damaging than what our military experiences is to come home and see it totally negated by those who claim to "hate the war" but "love the troops."DeltaBravonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-49390618509634931472010-07-05T14:01:57.000-04:002010-07-05T14:01:57.000-04:00AC,
Oh, cut the crap. The debate is about the na...AC,<br /><br />Oh, cut the crap. The debate is about the nature of that "help" and how perpetuating victimhood is more than counterproductive. <br /><br />Yes, the veterans themselves. Occasionally, we don't live in trailers, don't get drunk and discharge firearms, beat our wives, turn to drugs or crime or anything.<br /><br />Some of us even have the unmitigated audacity to read thoroughly and think deeply on the subject, and (gasp!) disagree with prevailing opinion. Amazingly enough, we are still able to do this despite our own experiences and the scorn of more "educated" experts.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-20622644412433477702010-07-04T21:05:40.000-04:002010-07-04T21:05:40.000-04:00Should add, medications should be an option, not m...Should add, medications should be an option, not mandatory. So yes, when <span>medications are spoken of as "the way we will <b>have</b> to deal with (his/her) PTSD," (emphasis added) then they are bullshit. However, presenting them as one possible option (depending on the situation obviously) in a whole host of treatment options isn't bullshit at all. And like I've said before, labeling them with the overarching title of "anti-depressants" isn't really accurate, because there is now a whole host of drugs out there that have many different therapeutic effects and are intended for treatment of a variety of conditions...what works best for one condition will not work best for another. That's why having a psychiatrist who knows his stuff is key when getting a prescription. </span><br /><br />Also, using medications in the VERY short term isn't really a viable option, since antidepressant-type medications usually take at least 6-8 weeks to start taking effect...giving someone a month's prescription and calling it good isn't going to accomplish anything.USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-86447817398651698042010-07-04T20:56:39.000-04:002010-07-04T20:56:39.000-04:00<span>Did you happen to hear the NPR piece ...<span>Did you happen to hear the NPR piece on TBI a few weeks ago? Here's the story I first heard: <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127542820" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127542820</a> and here's a summation of all the reports and some other follow up stuff: <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127402851.%C2%A0" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127402851. </a> It was pretty well done, did a good job of laying out what you were talking about, with PTSD/battle fatigue being psychological in nature while TBI/shell shock is physical, but will often manifest itself in symptoms typically considered to be psychological. A lot of the problems that the soldiers suffering from TBI had with (not) receiving treatment centered around being misdiagnosed with PTSD, being pushed into a PTSD treatment (often involving meds), it not working, and everyone subsequently accusing them of faking it and needing to man up and get over themselves (i.e., quit being "pussies".) Food for thought... <br /> <br />Re: meds, unless we're talking about some serious misdiagnosis or overmedication, they don't "control" or "change" behavior...you don't turn into a doped up zombie or suddenly think everything is funny or any of the other stereotypes. All they do is modify the physical pathways in your brain concerning certain emotions by fixing the chemical imbalance...they provide physical/chemical assistance to whatever other mental/psychological course of treatment is being pursued. When they aren't used as one part in a whole course of treatment, they're useless at best and harmful at worst. And obviously they have no place treating someone whose injury is physical rather than mental (TBI). But to summarily dismiss them for any and all personnel is removing a very valuable tool from your toolbox.</span>USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-64883358275922455342010-07-04T19:51:20.000-04:002010-07-04T19:51:20.000-04:00USAF Mike,
When medications are spoken of as &quo...USAF Mike,<br /><br />When medications are spoken of as "the way we will have to deal with (his/her) PTSD", then medications are bulls*t. They may control behavior than needs controlling in the VERY short term. Period. They are no more appropriate than experiments in DIH done some decades ago that had very detrimental long-term effects on the subjects. <br /><br />The VA and the medical community at large is still in the dark about most of the subject they wax so authoritative about. Often they don't know and won't acknowledge the difference between survival behaviors (ducking at the sound of a car backfiring, or in many cases here, checking the sides of roads, tops of buildings, etc.), emotional reactions to trigger stimuli, or true "flashbacks" where someone is unsure or unaware of location and situation. They lump it all into PTSD, and that is entirely incorrect. I don't care WHO tries to tell me otherwise. <br /><br />I guest lectured to the VAQS annual meeting a couple of years ago, spoke for about an hour and then had a general discussion/Q&A period scheduled for 20 minutes. The session took three hours. The misconceptions from trained professionals, and some of the attitudes openly expressing returning servicemen and women as "victims" has been indicative of those elsewhere in the medical community. <br /><br />I actually had a number of people tell me that battle fatigue and shellshock were synonymous. Until I explained that battle fatigue was psychological in nature, and shellshock was a physical manifestation of enduring a great number of large concussions much like a boxer taking repeated punches to the head. In the years following that discussion, much more is being understood by medical authorities about closed-head brain injuries, that are not necessarily caused by being struck by shrapnel or debris of the explosion, but by the shock wave itself. <br /><br />These were things that were well known in the late 1940s to the late 1970s, but those in the VA and other places who dealt with those effects retired long ago, and until 2002 there were virtually no cases of such injuries/wounds with which to keep awareness among the medical community.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-74074932149102198272010-07-04T18:29:55.000-04:002010-07-04T18:29:55.000-04:00No longer on the couch with the shrink because I g...No longer on the couch with the shrink because I got help over a period of about 6 months and am now good to go...whereas if I had followed your father's advice and not sought help/just manned up I'd still be a wreck and probably would've blown my head off a while ago.<br /><br />But yeah, I'm a pussy for getting help instead of committing suicide. Yup, sounds about right to me. I hope no one under you is suffering from a mental health issue, because the word "stigmatization" comes to mind.<br /><br />What your father did was right for him...I'm not going to contradict that because I don't know him or his situation, which is my point. Each situation is unique, and blanket statements, whether calling everyone who is suffering a "pussy" or for making everyone who is suffering go on meds, are always going to harmful, and always going to be wrong. Sorry.USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-19340255447077680682010-07-04T18:20:25.000-04:002010-07-04T18:20:25.000-04:00So labeling anyone and everyone suffering from PTS...So labeling anyone and everyone suffering from PTSD or any other mental health issue as a pussy is completely normal and acceptable, but pointing out that that view isn't really correct (when generalized to the population as a whole) is being an ass?<br /><br />Ah, I get it now! Thanks. For the record, I never said MTH's father was wrong about himself...I don't know his situation, so to pass judgment on that would be a fool's errand. What he did worked well for him, and that's great. I simply said that he was wrong when talking about the population as a whole, because, well, he was. That's really my entire point, that each individual and situation is unique and must be addressed as such and that blanket labeling as "pussies" or "victims" is ineffectual at best and harmful at worst.<br /><br />Oh, and medications are bullshit? Try again. The only reason I'm alive today is because I spent 5 months on an antidepressant...without that I would've put a gun to my head a long time ago. Medications are most definitely not a long term treatment, but they do buy time and help your brain rewire when used in concert with other forms of treatment. This is of course provided that they are the *right* medication, which is a very important point. Medications aren't for everyone, and no one who doesn't want them should be required to take them, but for those that do they can be a vital part of treatment and shouldn't be dismissed as "bullshit."<br /><br />But yes, by all means, contradict the available science on the issue with your personal opinion. I'll just keep on being an ass with my science and facts.USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-74023959301790597742010-07-04T18:06:51.000-04:002010-07-04T18:06:51.000-04:00I agree 100% with that. You know why? It doesn&#...I agree 100% with that. You know why? It doesn't try to generalize people suffering from PTSD or any other mental health issue as pussies who should just man up and get over themselves...each situation is unique because each individual is unique and must be addressed as such. Making sweeping generalizations like anyone who has these issues is a pussy or everyone who has the issues must join a focus group and get on meds is going to do much more harm than good because you're going to either stigmatize individuals from seeking help (in the first case) or take someone whose issues weren't that deep and make them worse through victimization (in the second case.) <br /><br />But I reiterate my earlier stance that simply sweeping the issue away by labeling them all "pussies" is fundamentally wrong as a general method of treatment.USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-55352551174966927702010-07-04T17:56:19.000-04:002010-07-04T17:56:19.000-04:00Nope, it portrays someone suffering from PTSD as s...Nope, it portrays someone suffering from PTSD as something other than a stoic strong willed non-"pussy." It must automatically be bad.<br /><br />/sarcasm.<br /><br />Like I've said before, the movie in its entirety has been screened for countless service members and combat vets, pretty much all of whom have had nothing but good things to say about it. Let's hold off on the condemnation until the movie is actually out and we can make a judgment from something other than a 2:30 trailer.USAF Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-66490022558001469272010-07-04T13:35:55.000-04:002010-07-04T13:35:55.000-04:00On this, our nations birthday, we should all celeb...On this, our nations birthday, we should all celebrate the hard-fought freedoms our forefathers fought to attain and keep. Among those rights is the one to act like an ass, which Airforce Mike uses on a regular basis.<br /><br />Happy Fourth of July, Mike!Byronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-60905734085641052172010-07-04T13:19:36.000-04:002010-07-04T13:19:36.000-04:00<span>USAF Mike,
Once again, you have m...<span>USAF Mike, <br /> <br />Once again, you have managed to aggravate deeply with your out of tune remarks and oh-so-strong opinions on something you have little experience in. <br /> <br />In a combat zone, you see things, smell things, do things, hear things that will stay with you the rest of your life. They come back at odd times, triggered by unexpected trips of sensory recall. The fear, anger, desperation, all the mix of emotion and heightened alert flow back all at once. <br /> <br />"Help" aimed at trying to expel those memories and images has become far too prevalent a notion. Medications are bullsh*t. "Encounter groups" where combat vets are encouraged to "open up" to a gathering of strangers and dwell on such things do far more harm than good. And yes, the underlying theme of current efforts is that of victimhood, and it is an easy one for a young service member to fall into, particularly in our increasingly victim-rich society. <br /> <br />PTSD, which is a misleading and inaccurate term used for a whole gamut of post-combat reactions, is not something that is very well understood, and is used by many who already loathe the military to relegate veterans to the position of "damaged goods". <br /> <br />My Father had nightmares from his time in the South Pacific (New Guinea, New Britain, and the Admiralties) every night for 60+ years. He spoke very little of those things, even to my Mother. It was only after her passing and my return from Iraq that he began to speak at all of those times. And even then he alluded, knowing that I knew what he meant. <br /> <br />Like hundreds of thousands of others, he learned to live with what he had been through during the war, and to understand the context of all of it. He lived a magnificent and productive life, because he believed everything he had was bonus time. <br /> <br />The most effective therapy was that based on inner strength and persistence, not in "giving in", "opening up", and emoting among the collective of strangers. That is why combat veterans often prefer the companionship of other combat vets. All of the things that are known can remain unspoken, yet understood. As opposed to constantly verbalizing to people who can never understand.</span>UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-11923851652866668172010-07-04T13:14:47.816-04:002010-07-04T13:14:47.816-04:00My grandfather served many years in the Naval Rese...My grandfather served many years in the Naval Reserve. Seeing the handwriting on the wall, he went active duty the year before Pearl Harbor. By the time he was sent back to the US he had seven stars on his Asia-Pacific medal and had been at some pretty rough places - although, like many combat vets, to hear him tell it WWII was just lots of funny anecdotes - more like a MASH episode, really (yeah, right). He died in 2003 at the age of 99. At his funeral my cousin told about the time a plane flew low over the house (in the early 1950's) - Grandpa dove under the dinning room table. Grandma, bless her, just said "oh, he's been that way ever since the war". I pulled his VA file after he died, and the notes when he got back home show severe and textbook PTSD (although we didn't call it that in those days).<br /><br />Yet he went on to have a full and productive life and career for another 50+ years, with no mental health treatment that I know of.<br /><br />One thing he did when he got back was join every lodge, VFW, etc. group he could find. He also became very active in church. As one of the Navy chaplains around here points out, today we call it "group therapy;" back then it was called the American Legion meeting, although it often involved drinking (Grandpa was a teetotaler) and that can lead to other problems.<br /><br />I know I am preaching to the choir - PTSD is real, but it isn't always permanent.Andrewdbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11133812792196196790noreply@blogger.com