tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post8311654440491378107..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Speaking of the Great Lakes CNO ....CDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-43498362679379090372010-01-21T15:07:59.000-05:002010-01-21T15:07:59.000-05:00C14,
There was a passage in the book where Aubrey,...C14,<br />There was a passage in the book where Aubrey, reflecting on the outcome of the Constitution/Java engagement, remembered that Nelson had once told him, "Never mind maneuvers, always go straight at them." Aubrey concluded that whereas Nelson's advice was sound when dealing with the French and the Spanish, he might have had some other ideas if he was fighting the Americans!Anthony Mirvishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-82959434432806080452010-01-21T14:12:32.000-05:002010-01-21T14:12:32.000-05:00I wouldn't gripe too much about the message. A...I wouldn't gripe too much about the message. At least we're remembering the War.<br /><br />Why no USS James Lawrence? Maybe because some people would confuse her with USS William P Lawrence (DDG 110)? (Just a guess.) That shouldn't be an excuse though. <a href="http://www.register.surfor.navy.mil/sandbox/ddg110/default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.register.surfor.navy.mil/sandbox/ddg110/default.aspx</a>deBarranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-25051132422110795242010-01-21T10:13:00.000-05:002010-01-21T10:13:00.000-05:00A1T,
That's absolutely true too. One of the r...A1T,<br />That's absolutely true too. One of the reasons why the Navy did well throughout the war was that it had a core of officers and sailors, and fighting experience gained against the Barbary Pirates etc.<br /><br />It's worth remembering that prior to WWII (and even then to some extent), this was a somewhat common experience in our wars. There was a lot of disorder at the start of the Civil War, the Spanish American War and even WWI. Lincoln's achievement as C-in-C during the Civil War is all the more very impressive considering that he had to deal with the sort of problems you mentioned too.Anthony Mirvishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-40911487528305458342010-01-21T05:43:56.000-05:002010-01-21T05:43:56.000-05:00Oh, yeah, C-dore. In the novel, at least, Lawrence...Oh, yeah, C-dore. In the novel, at least, Lawrence and Aubrey got along right well. Broke was indeed a gunnery nerd, a very earnest type. Chesapeake was also famously an unlucky ship, going back to that incident with Leopard. (which led to the duel which killed Decatur)Justthisguynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21945031155793490522010-01-20T18:35:31.000-05:002010-01-20T18:35:31.000-05:00Waste of time, money, and steaming hours...Waste of time, money, and steaming hours...CDR Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-70892482757416965912010-01-20T18:24:16.000-05:002010-01-20T18:24:16.000-05:00When I was up in Newport we referred to the first ...When I was up in Newport we referred to the first ship in the class as the "Oh Help me Please" due to her continuing material problems.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-67768696698770715522010-01-20T18:22:17.000-05:002010-01-20T18:22:17.000-05:00Interestingly enough, the performance of the Navy ...Interestingly enough, the performance of the Navy was one of the few bright spots in the War of 1812. BTW, a great fictional account of the CONSTITUTION/JAVA and CHESAPEAKE/SHANNON engagements can be found in <span><b>The Fortunes of War</b></span>, the 6th book in the Aubrey/Maturin series.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-48049768213641271012010-01-20T18:16:44.000-05:002010-01-20T18:16:44.000-05:00Regrettably, it was probably one of those "Na...Regrettably, it was probably one of those "Navy-sponsored PhDs" who drafted this message.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-42086160261263494372010-01-20T12:44:09.000-05:002010-01-20T12:44:09.000-05:00On the other side of coin continental power lackin...On the other side of coin continental power lacking fleet is powerless against overseas enemy with strong fleet - as Brits showed against Bonaparte and later Hitler.ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-82810684441355682112010-01-20T12:06:36.000-05:002010-01-20T12:06:36.000-05:00Share...share....Share...share....cdrsalamandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-12902002987297662382010-01-20T11:13:07.000-05:002010-01-20T11:13:07.000-05:00Anthony,
I'd also add that America had a v...Anthony,<br /><br /> I'd also add that America had a very difficult time because we hand no distict chain of command. Politicians were showing up and trying to change plans, push troops, reverse deployment orders, etc. The War of 1812 was a STRONG reminder of the need for a solid, well-trained, well disciplined regular army as the core for military expansion in time of war.<br /><br /> We had a tiny military, spread all over the country, and as a result, when we called out the militia, they showed up as individual companies, with little training in working together, and varying allegiances to their officers, since most were elected to their rank by the soliders themselves.AW1 Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-44365778054874699112010-01-20T10:57:44.000-05:002010-01-20T10:57:44.000-05:00Another lesson of 1812 is to think through the dec...Another lesson of 1812 is to think through the decision to go to war (we declared war on the British, not vice veras). The so-called "War Hawks" mostly hailed from the inland states and they showed no particular willingness to fund the military during the Jefferson administration. The Jefferson administration had previously cut the Navy greatly and cancelled Federalist plans to construct a small fleet of ships-of-the-line. Had those ships been available, the the subsequent British blockade of our coast would have been far more difficult for them and perhaps the impressment of believed-to-be-former RN sailors from our merchant ships would not have happened inthe first place. Of course, had the Army had its act more together things might gone better on land ;) .<br /><br />The other lesson is that even if you lose your capital, it is hard for a predominantly maritime state to decisively defeat a continental-size opponent. Took the Brits 20+ years against Napoleon, and they had allies in Europe.Anthony Mirvishnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-71491988632825646792010-01-20T10:36:05.000-05:002010-01-20T10:36:05.000-05:00well, the best message of 1812 is that if you lose...well, the best message of 1812 is that if you lose control of sea, enemy can show up in your capital and demolish it...ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21979427719413716202010-01-20T10:30:39.000-05:002010-01-20T10:30:39.000-05:00A whole class of ships was named after Perry ;)A whole class of ships was named after Perry ;)Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-58284220857645445272010-01-20T09:54:16.000-05:002010-01-20T09:54:16.000-05:00I'm with Jim Dolbow on this one, not seeing a ...I'm with Jim Dolbow on this one, not seeing a problem with CNO telling his subordinates to come up with an appropriate plan. Putting NHHC in charge is the right thing to do.kmadams85noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-29984406364986797472010-01-20T09:31:09.000-05:002010-01-20T09:31:09.000-05:00Nice use of the carbuncle. According to wikipedia...Nice use of the carbuncle. According to wikipedia, "<span>Carbuncles usually must drain before they will heal." Draw your own inferences.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle</a>Whipper Snappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-32973790439022598222010-01-20T08:51:55.000-05:002010-01-20T08:51:55.000-05:00CDR,
what is wrong with the message? I guess I m...CDR,<br /><br />what is wrong with the message? I guess I may be missing something...Jim Dolbownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-51473405691207753242010-01-20T08:44:42.000-05:002010-01-20T08:44:42.000-05:00I sent a "tickle reminder" to the USFF s...I sent a "tickle reminder" to the USFF staff last year about NOT forgetting the men buried at Deadman's Island, Halifax, Nova Scotia.<br /><br />Of course, for any staff to maintain a three year corporate memory??? Yeah, I figure that ain't gonna work out so good.<br /><br />We'll see...1812 is a big deal up North too!Desert Sailornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-80380275078732614132010-01-20T07:57:31.000-05:002010-01-20T07:57:31.000-05:00There will be Warrior Ethos, because I say there w...There will be Warrior Ethos, because I say there will! (and I use this term more than a GS12 Uses Business Case Analysis and Lean Six Sigma!)MR T's Haircutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-71225821599350297942010-01-20T07:17:03.000-05:002010-01-20T07:17:03.000-05:00Joins the list of those who post before signing in...Joins the list of those who post before signing in. That is my post just belowSCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-84664619910149076382010-01-20T07:16:06.000-05:002010-01-20T07:16:06.000-05:00My guess would be because he took CHESAPEAKE out t...My guess would be because he took CHESAPEAKE out to fight SHANNON when the CHESAPEAKE was in no material condition to go into battle, and a dissaffected crew. The crew's enlistement had ended on May 20, and they had had thier prize money held up in court. When those who remained were paid off by Lawrence out his own pocket, ( he gets points for that ), they decided to stay, and he filled out the crew with recruited forigen sailors, and sailors from CONSTITUTION.<br /><br />CHESAPEAKE was in poor condition, having just come in from an extended cruise on April 9, and needed refitting. Lawrence decided that he was going to chase SHANNON away from Boston, and set out to do so, despite crew and ship deficencies.<br /><br />HMS SHANNON, under Captian Broke, had a primitive fire control system, Broke having had compass arcs painted at each gun station, and a pelorus set up admidships, so he could concentrate his fire. Broke had a daily 3 hour gun drill as well. This was reflected in SHANNON hitting CHESAPEAKE 362 times, while the larger CHESAPEAKE hit SHANNON only 258.<br /><br />Lawrence lost his ship to a combination of overconfidence, and an enemy who was far more prepared than he was. Nontheless, we named 2 brigs, 2 DDs, and a DDG after him. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com