tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post5661433643204002583..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Shift fire to the IvysCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-81666085711868810162010-12-30T07:27:41.000-05:002010-12-30T07:27:41.000-05:00Now we have this a$$ clown opining. Peace studies...Now we have this a$$ clown opining. Peace studies indeed. It makes me want to punch him on the nose for his naivete, brain washing and overall stupidity. The best thing the devil did was make people think he didn't exist. There IS evil out there and peace studies, devisive diversity silliness will not push it away.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/29/AR2010122903033.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/29/AR2010122903033.html</a>LT Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-2383655551513647622010-12-23T10:07:34.000-05:002010-12-23T10:07:34.000-05:00Penn's program is at Penn, on South Street, ne...Penn's program is at Penn, on South Street, near Franklin Field. Drexel cross-towns to Penn.Bull Snipenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8721592884742692462010-12-21T21:02:55.000-05:002010-12-21T21:02:55.000-05:00Seattle Fire,
You could say the same over about 9...Seattle Fire,<br /><br />You could say the same over about 90% of the current and incoming Congressional Critters (both sides of the aisles). Rich, self-important blowhards who have never even looked at military service. So what is your point?<br /><br />As to the UW not being an Ivy League. You are correct they aren't an Ivy League, but gosh darn if they don't try to act it via either thier ASB or thier professors.Southern Air Piratenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-3046300254069194482010-12-21T20:30:12.000-05:002010-12-21T20:30:12.000-05:00President Bush- Yale '68, Harvard Business ...President Bush- Yale '68, Harvard Business '75<br />Vice President Cheny- Yale (dropped out)<br />Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld- Princeton '54 (NROTC)<br />General Petraeus- Princeton- '87<br /><br />Should I go on?<br />Did we win Iraq with them or in spite of them?<br />Are they part of "A larger collection of white, rich, self-important blowhards has never been assembled, even in the JCS!". <br />Have you read General Patraeus' article "Beyond the Cloister," <i>The American Interest Magazine"?</i><br /><br />Disclaimer: I am a NROTC guy from a public university (UW), I have never attended an Ivy League school.Seattle Firenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-38753315244376267772010-12-21T19:41:53.000-05:002010-12-21T19:41:53.000-05:00CT, You're correct that the situation is a bit...CT, You're correct that the situation is a bit more complex than it seems on the surface and the services have some culpability in the matter as well. However, let me throw a few more variables into the mix regarding NROTC units (I can't speak to the other services). First, having NROTC units in as many areas of the country as possible outweighs the advantages of having naval bases or units nearby. There's essentially no naval presence in Oregon, Idaho, or Minnesota (or Northern California for than matter) but there are NROTC units in each of those states. Secondly, since the mid-'90s when CNET started allocating scholarship students to individual schools the size of the student body at a given school became less important. Because scholarship students make up the majority of a midshipman battalion, if the Navy wants a unit at a given school, they'll provide the students. Thus Yale and Brown, both of which had NROTC battalions once upon a time, are as likely candidates as anyplace else.<br /><br />The issue, as you imply, is cost but it's more along the line of cost per graduate weighed against the likelihood that the grad will stay in the service for initial obligation plus two years. Frankly, the Ivies didn't have a very good track record in that regard and this was one of the reasons that the Navy didn't push to reopen a unit there.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-34764041906735082982010-12-21T19:35:40.000-05:002010-12-21T19:35:40.000-05:00The New York City angle is very interesting becaus...The New York City angle is very interesting because recruiters often claim that they do extremely well in the City (and I have no reason to doubt the veracity of those claims). If true, perhaps the powers that be in the Big Apple (and the State of New York) will realize the benefits of serving their constituents by keeping them at home for a college experience funded by the Federal government.<br /><br />There are many great schools in NYC and throughout the state [shout out to Cooper Union, Cornell, and Binghampton University (via Tony Kornheiser)], although some are over-the-top liberal (e.g., Columbia and NYU). However, the mixing of liberals, middle of the roaders (an often-forgotten group that forms a substantial portion of our population), and conservatives is good for the military and society overall. I would think that should be particularly true in an eclectic and cosmoplitan society such as NYC.QSPNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-40701960918095888882010-12-21T17:41:58.000-05:002010-12-21T17:41:58.000-05:00<span>A Rview by school lacking ROTC:
Harva...<span>A Rview by school lacking ROTC:<br /><br />Harvard's president has just committed to press for the full return of ROTC there. But if the srvices follow form, they'll rent a room at Harvard, keep their bases at MIT for the central location.<br />Yale has no hope of local ROTC presence unless Army steps it up in southern CT. And Navy has shown no interest in the entire state of CT - not even at UConn. Yale has long made it clear that they support ROTC - at least in published statements on the university web site.<br />Brown - even if they threw open their arms - is too small a school in too small a state to ever get much than a circuit-rider Army presence. Forget AF and N.<br />Columbia, notorious from the 1960s demonstrations: Even if they threw open their arms - and their President, formerly a U Mich, has made positive noises - there is no military education infrastructure in NYC. Until some part of the military commits resources to securing officer candidates from the largest city in the US, there will be no meaningful presence at Columbia, or CUNY, or NYU, or at many of the many, many other schools in NYC.<br />Beyond the Ivys:<br />- Duke - they share cross-town units with UNC, which makes for interesting drills during hoops season.<br />- Stanford - isolated in a very high cost area, it is possible to travel (a long, long way) to get at least Ar and N ROTC.<br /><br />When you get on the ground and look at specifics, there are as many blocks posed by the services as those posed by the various Universities. If the SECDEF wants to get on more campuses, he has got to put some more feet on the ground to get there. And budgets won't support it anytime soon.<br /></span>CT_Woodsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-76595979867089891352010-12-21T17:40:57.000-05:002010-12-21T17:40:57.000-05:00<span>
Grotopotamus -
Thanks for bringing f...<span><br /><br />Grotopotamus -<br />Thanks for bringing facts before directing fire. Two points:<br />1) At all of the Ivys, there is some form of ROTC (Ar, AF, N) available to the student that is willing to stretch.<br />- And at several, there are full scale units on Campus: Penn, Cornell, Princeton (Army only).<br />2) The services have chosen various forms of consolidation and combination that limit the options at many of the schools.<br />- Cross-town combinations are a common necessity (see Penn, Harvard) where density alllows.<br />- Some states / areas are entirely unserved by various service branches, and some areas have no units within miles.<br />- There is no Navy ROTC in the states of CT (Yale) or RI (Brown), despite a big sub presence in Groton .<br />- Dartmouth is way way up in the woods (as you noted); they can get Army ROTC at Norwich, with a long drive.<br />- Columbia: There is just not much military presence in NYC. Nothing much at NYU or CUNY to support Columbia.<br /></span>CT_Woodsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-38939863131737723902010-12-21T16:43:32.000-05:002010-12-21T16:43:32.000-05:00The entire DADT repeal was irresponsible. If the c...The entire DADT repeal was irresponsible. If the concerns of the troops had figured into it, DADT would have been left alone, and the hammer would have been brought down on the colleges that mistreat ROTC.Quartermasternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-17706717578261064892010-12-21T13:18:42.000-05:002010-12-21T13:18:42.000-05:00I believe Penn's program is actually at Drexel...I believe Penn's program is actually at Drexel (nearby). <br /><br />I think returning the ROTC is a great idea. It is good for both sides of the civil-military divide to have more exposure to the other. Like it or not (I don't) the civilan leadership in this country pulls a lot from elite universities. That civilian leadership needs a lot more exposure to the military.andrewdbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-35459833577252782482010-12-20T16:20:54.000-05:002010-12-20T16:20:54.000-05:00"I am disgusted by the Ivy League" - whi..."I am disgusted by the Ivy League" - which encompasses all eight institutions. My comments were not directed at you, though, but rather the much broader generalization that all "top tier" students are not fit for military service as they are clearly unscrupulous and unethical <a href="mailto:b@stards" rel="nofollow">b@stards</a> waiting for their diploma so they can foreclose on your home and throw the economy in the shitter.<br /><br />We may not need the Ivy League to win wars, but note not all Ivy Leaguers keep Karl Marx under their pillow, throw paint at recruiting stations, etc. And I sincerely hope that ROTC comes soon to Yale, Harvard, and Columbia, and that the others can get back on campus.<br /><br />But we need those engineers and scientists, please.Grotopotamusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-28788418157450911132010-12-20T15:52:43.000-05:002010-12-20T15:52:43.000-05:00The next phase of this battle will be "We'...The next phase of this battle will be "We're willing to accept an ROTC unit as long as its courses meet the high standards of (insert the name of your favorite Ivy here) and their instructors are qualified to teach here". It was part of the argument against ROTC in the '60s/'70s and I don't doubt it will recur in the upcoming debate. Even in the schools that retained ROTC programs the instruction and the university's process for accepting instructors was changed. None of my enlisted personnel were "officially" permitted to teach and the billets for a senior QM, MM, and GMG had long since disappeared. Although the process was pretty much "proforma", my nomination as PNS went before the faculty senate and the Board of Regents, but we were a public institution and the government had the "land grant college hammer" on its side. Still, unlike my pre-Vietnam predecessors, I was required to hold a Masters Degree and to present an example of "scholarly writing" prior to being approved.<br /><br />Like milprof, I suspect that the Ivy League law schools, despite their liberal leanings, will come around more easily because we're only asking to recruit there...not to set up a training program. Establishing an ROTC unit will be a harder task.C-dore 14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14719027050888393222010-12-20T15:51:03.000-05:002010-12-20T15:51:03.000-05:00Hmm, is it worth it to be at an ivy league for a p...<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/weekinreview/19steinberg.html?_r=1" rel="nofollow">Hmm, is it worth it to be at an ivy league</a> for a piece of lamb skin?Southern Air Piratenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-71525701059725868712010-12-20T15:30:25.000-05:002010-12-20T15:30:25.000-05:00save your indignation. the comment applied to thos...save your indignation. the comment applied to those universities that are not allowing ROTC and are the most liberal to boot. The military is not an exercise in liberal discourse. There is a right, a wrong, and precious little gray area. Liberal Indignified University cannot square that in their self-described enormously powered brains.<br /><br />Ergo, anyone who is a result of that four year education stands a better chance than not of not turning out to be a General Patton, but a Senator John Kerry. No thanks.Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-15126096620896711282010-12-20T15:30:23.000-05:002010-12-20T15:30:23.000-05:00save your indignation. the comment applied to thos...save your indignation. the comment applied to those universities that are not allowing ROTC and are the most liberal to boot. The military is not an exercise in liberal discourse. There is a right, a wrong, and precious little gray area. Liberal Indignified University cannot square that in their self-described enormously powered brains.<br /><br />Ergo, anyone who is a result of that four year education stands a better chance than not of not turning out to be a General Patton, but a Senator John Kerry. No thanks.Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-73283620268327985292010-12-20T15:30:03.000-05:002010-12-20T15:30:03.000-05:00Sorry. I meant to say anyone that doesn't know...Sorry. I meant to say anyone that doesn't know Harvey Mudd College should get to know it. It's top-notch academically, just not very well known outside of California.QSPNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-352660736923860792010-12-20T15:02:44.000-05:002010-12-20T15:02:44.000-05:00Absolutely, QSPN, I get it - off campus does not =...Absolutely, QSPN, I get it - off campus does not = an easy row to hoe. Getting ROTC back into the 3 ivies that don't even have it on their books should run in parallel with getting space on-campus for those that do. And I know Harvey Mudd...Grotopotamusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-54817090941371851262010-12-20T14:54:15.000-05:002010-12-20T14:54:15.000-05:00Horse hockey!Horse hockey!MCPO Airdalenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14268437208733827622010-12-20T14:49:47.000-05:002010-12-20T14:49:47.000-05:00Last time I looked, Princeton was Air Force ROTC o...Last time I looked, Princeton was Air Force ROTC only and the cadets had to travel to the Rutgers campus in order to attend ROTC lab periods--a hard road to hoe.<br /><br />Technically, Harvard and Tufts have at least Navy ROTC in the form of a crosstown agreement with the Navy ROTC Unit at MIT. Once again, however, that's a significant additional burden on the midshipmen.<br /><br />At one point, Harvey Mudd College (if you don't know about them, you should) had a similar crosstown agreement with USC, but travel from Claremont to downtown Los Angeles and back proved too difficult.<br /><br />The Navy ROTC Unit at MIT is off campus, but only by 100 feet or so. So not all off campus is created equal.<br /><br />The bottom line is that while off campus is possible, it can be almost impossible, depending on the exact circumstances. For example, if the ROTC Unit runs labs or PT in the early morning (e.g., 0600) or late afternoon (e.g., 1600) so as not to conflict with other classes, that's hard enough if it's on campus. If you've got to travel a significant distance there and back, it can be practically impossible.QSPNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-87068535220875404942010-12-20T14:33:18.000-05:002010-12-20T14:33:18.000-05:00Here, euro students: http://www.youtube.com/watch?...Here, euro students: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx6kq-LA4FY&t=1m57s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx6kq-LA4FY&t=1m57s</a><br /><br />Oh well, I guess I'm a bit grumpy these days.Outlaw Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-71944545638815245592010-12-20T14:29:24.000-05:002010-12-20T14:29:24.000-05:00I'll eat my shoes if that happens.
In Europe,...I'll eat my shoes if that happens.<br /><br />In Europe, gays CAN serve openly. You think something like a euro variant of ROTC would even be allowed within a five-mile radius of our universities?<br /><br />Oh, that's right. There is not something like a ROTC in socialistic eutopia.<br /><br />Which abundantly makes my point.<br /><br />Dream on, CDR. Like I said, yesterday they got a finger. Now they'll go for the arm.Outlaw Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-81057416186822000792010-12-20T14:04:56.000-05:002010-12-20T14:04:56.000-05:00<p><span><span>Now then.</spa...<p><span><span>Now then.</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Do we really want students who attend “top tier” schools to join the military? <strong>Hell yes, we do</strong>. <span> </span></span></span><br /></p><p><span> </span><br /></p><p><span><span>Wall street, Big banks, that “kind of people” – what does this have to do with ROTC? I can find that same entitlement infection at my local community college and state school. <span> </span>ROTC is entered into willingly, with clear expectations of the service requirements at the back end, and serious penalties for withdrawal. <span> </span></span></span><br /></p><p><span> </span><br /></p><p><span><span>A “top tier” education is not a shameful badge in military circles, nor should it be something to fear. One does not learn a secret liberal handshake upon matriculating. An ex-BF of mine who was ROTC at one of those Ivies with an active unit served 2 tours in Iraq. My brilliant BIL who attended “top tier” is now leading research into anti-IED technology. We need those guts, those brains, those engineers especially.<span> </span>To dismiss those students who attend some of our best schools as somehow unfit for service based on the fact that they got in only exacerbates the dangerous camo-vs-mortarboard aspect of the civilian-military divide, and those “top tier” ROTC cadets who have gone on to honorably execute their obligations should feel rightfully pissed if they read your post.</span></span><br /></p><p><span> </span><br /></p><p><span><span>Please mind that broad brush. That color doesn’t work for me.</span></span></p>Grotopotamusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-58105817843113348562010-12-20T14:04:24.000-05:002010-12-20T14:04:24.000-05:00<p><span><span>So 3 out of 20… a...<p><span><span>So 3 out of 20… and according to other news reports this morning the holdouts are coming to their senses, and the off-campus units could be on-campus soon.</span></span></p>Grotopotamusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-75207932424242392622010-12-20T14:03:45.000-05:002010-12-20T14:03:45.000-05:00<p><span><span>Hang on a sec, pl...<p><span><span>Hang on a sec, please. For an easy number to handle (N=20), here’s the latest US News rankings combined with ROTC availability:</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Harvard (I) - No </span></span><span><span>Princeton (I) - Yes</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Yale (I) - No </span></span><span><span>Columbia (I) - No</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Stanford – Yes (off-campus, but there for the interested)</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Penn (I) - Yes </span></span><span><span>MIT -Yes</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Dartmouth (I) – Yes (although puny, it’s still there – the Professors of Military Science have faculty appointments)</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Duke - Yes</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Chicago – Yes (off-campus, but it’s there for the interested)</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Johns Hopkins - Yes </span></span><span><span>Wash U St. Louis - Yes</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Brown (I) – Yes (off-campus, but it’s there for the interested)</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Cornell (I) - Yes </span></span><span><span>Vanderbilt - Yes</span></span><br /></p><p><span><span>Notre Dame - Yes </span></span><span><span>Emory - Yes </span></span></p>Grotopotamusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-44111685937083229702010-12-20T13:18:06.000-05:002010-12-20T13:18:06.000-05:00Like this one? Or this one? How about this one can...<a href="http://www.switched.com/2009/12/01/japanese-man-marries-virtual-girlfriend/" rel="nofollow">Like this one?</a> <a href="http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/12/07/Australian-man-marries-dog/UPI-67301291756266/" rel="nofollow">Or this one?</a> <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,180478,00.html" rel="nofollow">How about this one can we start the survey on this and repeal the laws against this?</a> Maybe there are just a few people that need <a href="http://www.galtmuseum.com/collections-images/online%20auction/images/Straight-Jacket_jpg.jpg" rel="nofollow">help in huggin themselves?</a>Southern Air Piratenoreply@blogger.com