tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post3411435574992935620..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Licking sandy lubeCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-58350036217702285222010-11-30T10:01:20.000-05:002010-11-30T10:01:20.000-05:00Check out the article in the November 22nd Navy Ti...Check out the article in the November 22nd Navy Times: "Civilians to join amphib crew, test hybrid manning" Marinesurveyornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-11940171120433996492010-01-27T01:42:03.000-05:002010-01-27T01:42:03.000-05:00overall machine effeciency will be below the steam...overall machine effeciency will be below the steamers.<br /><br />they may pick up some effeciency by running the bejammers out of one turbine without having to drag one of the shafts.<br /><br />cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21352447066921800722010-01-27T01:30:46.000-05:002010-01-27T01:30:46.000-05:00for those of you that can actually screw a lefthnd...for those of you that can actually screw a lefthnded nut on a righthanded bolt:<br /><br />if this guy steffany is right they are circulating the equivelent of 800 grit lapping coumpound through their lube oil system.<br /><br />Cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-6098547060930469312010-01-26T19:40:27.000-05:002010-01-26T19:40:27.000-05:00You'll still need something to generate the el...You'll still need something to generate the electricity... electric drive means no shafts or reduction gears.Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21852447092719743662010-01-26T19:38:31.000-05:002010-01-26T19:38:31.000-05:00Well, except for the time to warm up the lube oil,...Well, except for the time to warm up the lube oil, and get the turbines warmed up (which compared to boilers was a very short time)Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-60110853373848758142010-01-26T17:20:23.000-05:002010-01-26T17:20:23.000-05:00Thanks--that's exactly the kind of answer I wa...Thanks--that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.<br /><br />Stupid question; if we go all-electric, how much do we gain by getting rid of entire systems like this? And how do the totally new electrical risks compare?Big Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-15104162308016332462010-01-26T16:05:37.000-05:002010-01-26T16:05:37.000-05:00Hold on their I was speaking about NGSB only! The...Hold on their I was speaking about NGSB only! There are good Gulf Coast yards. I worked on three from Halter Marine which were pretty good. I have no direct experience with Ingalls but lots of second hand horror storiesleeseanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-63893097169646587362010-01-26T15:14:26.000-05:002010-01-26T15:14:26.000-05:00Yup... it takes only one instance to call the whol...Yup... it takes only one instance to call the whole system into question.AW1 Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14476060196477217272010-01-26T15:14:10.000-05:002010-01-26T15:14:10.000-05:00PK: Thanks for the nice post elaborating and expla...PK: Thanks for the nice post elaborating and explaining my points. Since it's been over 3 decades since my MPA days, I'll take all the elaboration and explanation I can get. Your recommendations on steps best taken on start up or correction of problems noted early on were a nice addition to my blathering on about the application of the law of the 7 P's to new built ships' lube oil systems. I found the discussion on direct reversible engines most interesting, since my experience is with DG applications, which are unidirectional in rotation.Grandpa Bluewaternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-51987538442113489592010-01-26T15:12:59.000-05:002010-01-26T15:12:59.000-05:00According to the Master Chief, it take 72 seconds ...According to the Master Chief, it take 72 seconds to light off a turbine on a Perry or Burke, and be ready to get underway. It's what he did for his 20+ years, so I'll take him at his word. :)AW1 Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-62419759360335460582010-01-26T15:03:05.000-05:002010-01-26T15:03:05.000-05:00BULL NAV:
there is an occurance in bearings in tu...BULL NAV:<br /><br />there is an occurance in bearings in turbines and line shafts where the BABBIT developes vertical cracks which turn at a 90 degree angle after a sufficent depth and meet. once they meet a chunk of babbit leaves the scene, probably in tiny particles. it doesn't happen very often and the operators only notice that the bearing temperature goes up for a while but does not exceed the 50 degree for a half hour rule. bearing temperature goes down but never returns to what it was. this condition continues and the journal gets a reputation for running a bit warm.<br /><br />when the crabs pull the bearing there is a hole in the babit that you can drop a fifty cent piece into. the college boys say that we should make new bearings with thinner babbit layers thereby avoiding the stress that causes this (which usually caused failure within only a few hours of operation) but we used to bore the shells out .250-.375 oversized to get more babbit into them and the things ran smoothly.<br /><br />the major reason for the thinner babbit was reduced cost of the metal in the rebabbiting process.<br /><br />C pknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-26526467630410943202010-01-26T14:48:20.000-05:002010-01-26T14:48:20.000-05:00missouri had open reduction gears because long bea...missouri had open reduction gears because long beach was trying to find out why one of the reduction gear sets were vibrating above ~32 kts. every time she went out and went above that speed she wiped a couple of bearings in the reduction gear and we replaced them. never did find out what the problem was even aftr 5 iterations. i think they finally put a speed plate over the ahead throttle for that engine that said DO NOT EXCEED 293 RPM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.<br /><br />cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-58720291354126396092010-01-26T14:42:47.000-05:002010-01-26T14:42:47.000-05:00loss of the Thresher was attributed to gun decked ...loss of the Thresher was attributed to gun decked ultrasonic testing of a silver soldered copper nickel joint which leaked into a starter cabinet which scrammed the reactor which ...........<br /><br />Cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-26638128898272315552010-01-26T14:38:37.000-05:002010-01-26T14:38:37.000-05:00sir:
in a shaft running in a bearing the shaft te...sir:<br /><br />in a shaft running in a bearing the shaft tends to "climb" the bearing in the direction of rotation. this makes the axis of load move from vertical to not much more than about 80 degrees in extreme conditions. local appearant oil pressure is high in this area and low in the trailing area. when the load is released or reversed this area moves back beyond to centerline to the other side of the bearing. thats why in turbines we see the wear on the climbing side as they pretty much run in one direction only. but diesels affect this change from fore to aft then aft to fore once each every revoloution. this is one of the reasons that grit gets pounded into the bearing material rather than being flushed through it. plus the fact that the bearing clearances are just a little bit more that what one of the other folk said the particle size was.<br /><br />diesel engine cranks, even though they are big, heavy, stout all of those good things, are really about as rigid as a toilet chain. (try putting one in a lathe and indicating it or putting one into a crankshaft grinder and grinding/regrinding journals and throws which are a real bitch to keep straight and true. thats one of the big reasons why diesel crank cases must be RIDGED and machined TRUE.<br /><br />how about the boys do the traditional fix.<br /><br />install a LARGE duplex 20 micron filter BEFORE the inlet to the lube oil pumps.<br /><br />install a DELAVAL purifier BEFORE the 20 micron filter.<br /><br />clean the purifier every watch (delavals are particularly good in this area) on pain of bread and water for the entire watch that misses it.<br /><br /><br />don't know about centrifilters as i left this world about the time they were hitting the fleet.<br /><br />Cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-24528058405023589542010-01-26T14:13:47.000-05:002010-01-26T14:13:47.000-05:00yeah we never had time/money to do it right but p...yeah we never had time/money to do it right but plenty of time/money to do it over again.<br /><br />Cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-11570602843451081952010-01-26T14:10:55.000-05:002010-01-26T14:10:55.000-05:00big d:
a century ago ships had to light off at le...big d:<br /><br />a century ago ships had to light off at least 4 hours before sailing and if they ran at flank speed for a couple of hours they had to go home and "rebuild the engines" which was inactuality popping the bearing caps, drawfiling the parting faces of the bearings and then scraping the bearings to the journal. if this had been done a couple of times they had to shim the bearings to realign to the reduction gearing.......... <br /><br />now days on the gas turbines they light off engines about 3 minutes before taking in the lines and leaving. if you doubt me simply stand on the pier and listen when one goes out its pretty obvious. and yes if we look in the clouds when this happens we see a smile and hear the beaureau of propulsion gang saying on december 8th 1941, NEVER AGAIN!. THIS ABILITY IS A DIRECT RESULT OF THAT OCCURANCE!!!!!!.<br /><br />i notice that someone drew attention to a fastener scandle. fasteners have a scandle about every thirty years and quite often its the same companies. we used to have dog fights over boiler tubes on about a 15 year cycle but not any more as boilers are out of style. there is another cyclic dog fight and that is with the staves that go into the water bearings in the struts on the propellor shafts. (the rubber or plastic or lignum vitae peels off of the brass or plastic strips that it is stuck onto and we have a multiship multicoast fight over whether the stuff is usable or not)<br /><br />it all backs up to the fact that quality control MUST speak directly to the big big big dog. all of the others will sweep this stuff under the rug for a really big bunch of ricebowel reasons.<br /><br />cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-41245166367975629942010-01-26T13:51:08.000-05:002010-01-26T13:51:08.000-05:00It's come to my attention that NGSB instituted...It's come to my attention that NGSB instituted a drug policy after Katrina that involves the hair test. Almost impossible to beat. Might explain why a lot of "experienced personnel" left.Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-58393180839227089482010-01-26T13:34:13.000-05:002010-01-26T13:34:13.000-05:00Is anyone surprised by the lack of quality in our ...Is anyone surprised by the lack of quality in our Gulf Coast Shipyards?ShawnPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-3037268559399122292010-01-26T13:07:04.000-05:002010-01-26T13:07:04.000-05:00What has the world come to, when GRUMMAN builds cr...What has the world come to, when GRUMMAN builds crap? Leroy must be spinning in his grave.SCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-30634939357465501752010-01-26T12:51:10.000-05:002010-01-26T12:51:10.000-05:00I couldn't help myself ?~~ Large marine diese...I couldn't help myself ?~~ Large marine diesels have been used for many decades. I had them on my Newport class LST. Merchant mariners have been operating them on Navy owned ships for as long as they have been made. There is nothing NEW about marine diesels!<br /><br />My guess having brought TWO diesel powered two ships into service from Avondale is - its NGSB and all that is associated with their crummy construction process (boy that broad sweep will set some off!?)leeseanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-25324527436408366362010-01-26T12:46:02.000-05:002010-01-26T12:46:02.000-05:00Tim Colton is a pretty smart guy. He's been st...Tim Colton is a pretty smart guy. He's been sticking fingers in eyes for a while now.Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-15135152791875910202010-01-26T12:43:18.000-05:002010-01-26T12:43:18.000-05:00go over the Tim Colton an true maritime industry a...go over the Tim Colton an true maritime industry analyst and commentator and see his plan for what to do with No Good Ship Builder NGSB at this link: http://www.coltoncompany.com/<br /><br />Calling in MIRAGS US Merchant Marine Naval Reservists might help along with some EDOs? How about going over to MSC whose professional mariners have been opreating big diesels for decades. I believe the Navy is now using MSC's lube oil analysis program, maybe the Navy ChEng could use so CIVMAR experience?leeseanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-708443093346421252010-01-26T12:42:49.000-05:002010-01-26T12:42:49.000-05:00Granpa, during construction, all plate and shapes ...Granpa, during construction, all plate and shapes should come to the ship already blasted and primed. My suspect material would be grinding grit internal to the space (from hull joints inside the machinery space).Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-62435173534406051162010-01-26T12:40:25.000-05:002010-01-26T12:40:25.000-05:00I wonder if that super-dooper-will-last-till-the-b...I wonder if that super-dooper-will-last-till-the-bottom-rusts-out titanium firemain piping is part of the problem? If so, look for blood to wash out the scuppers, and the first lieutenant to start tearing his hair out over the stains. Dat ain't gonna be a cheap fix, no!Byron Audlernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-88336707803985720922010-01-26T12:29:12.000-05:002010-01-26T12:29:12.000-05:00Indeed, one industry up here in Maine that still h...Indeed, one industry up here in Maine that still has some following is the production of "Oil-Soaked wooden bearings. The advatage was that the oil-soaked hardwood could absorb a fair amount of grit without any noticable wear on the metal parts. These were used in high-contaminent areas, such as machine shops, lumber mills, etc.<br /><br />An interesting solution to the problem, though.AW1 Timnoreply@blogger.com