tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post2980207276765092172..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: How your Navy still does IAsCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-91881818964732458942011-09-02T08:24:54.159-04:002011-09-02T08:24:54.159-04:00LT B that is not me, I think the point that Sal ...LT B that is not me, I think the point that Sal was making was the first come first serve means of filling the billet is not really focusing on skill sets and job requirement lash ups. Sure, a young enterprising, nuke qualified, officer that dabbles in the intel field can be an assett over there, and can even gain experience useful on the boat. No arguement there. But is the first guy that hits the magic button ALWAYS the best guy? Some, here, keyed in on the "mentor group" statement and fair or not, the Navy has been pushing favoritism quite a bit so that may have been how it was perceived. The Navy has to blame themselves for that being the first thought most have. The quota mentality being pushed down the intestine is coloring the perceptions of a lot of Sailors.<br /><br />As for a better idea for IAs. Well, it speaks volumes that after 10 years, we have not plussed up the ground side, are band-aiding their manning requirements with Sailors and the system hasn't really changed. It is a failure at the political level to try to do this. So, the honest way to do it is actually plus up the Army/Marines, train the troops to the mission set, and roll with it. Over 10 years, this should have happened. The Marines got a bit of a plus up, but they are about to be downsized again. <br /><br />The real issue is the USAF/USN realized how perilous their budgets would be as it was a green war, not a blue war. They stepped up and have kept it up to argue they need some of this GWOT or OCO funding as well. <br /><br />PS<br />I hate the LCS too. :)LT Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-31399101418711414272011-09-02T07:06:11.000-04:002011-09-02T07:06:11.000-04:00LT B:
Submarines exist to project naval power (pu...LT B:<br /><br />Submarines exist to project naval power (put torpedoe on target, sea lane denial, commerce raiding, etc...). As a function of how the United States chooses to operate submarines, we choose to have nuclear powered submarines, which ups the training requirements considerably for submarine officers. Ours is an incredibly narrow subset of the naval profession that takes a long time to understand how all of it comes together and to be good at it - see the many references to our own experience in the Pacific in WWII before we got it right and that was with non-nuclear submarines so the nuke stuff we deal with today was not even part of the picture. Even it was they still would have found the right set of officers to defeat the Empire of Japan.<br /><br />You chose this profession. Excellent. Bully for you. Keep at it and be the best submariner possible.<br /><br />My argument (and I am not the only one making this) is that the needs of the Army/Marine Corps team in fighting two wars over in Iraq / Afghanistan needed more bodies than they had. In the resultant budget fight, where do you think that this money for the extra bodies was going to come from? Exactly - the Navy and the Air Force. To forestall this the Navy and Air Force came up with this concept of IA to supply bodies for the effort in Iraq / Afghanistan. Never mind that the IA concept failed horribly when we rotated individuals in the Army/Marine Corps in Vietnam - it helped preserve the budgets of the Navy and Air Force while giving the touchy feely illusion that we are all in this togther (a needless concept since we ARE all in this together...some of us are on the front lines and some of us are steely eyed killers of the deep).<br /><br />What did the Army do with your post before the Navy /Air Force started supplying bodies to fill the billet? I suspect and hope that they did it themselves. Or is this an additional staff created to use the IA folks (I hope not but fear the worse when large organizations get extra bodies....). IF the Army / Marine Corps are having problems dealing with the requirments placed upon them by the Nation, it is up to all of us to have an adult conversation as to how to address the needs to meed the goals laid out before us. Simply swapping bodies around that were never designed/trained to do functions different from their primary training is not a good idea and repeating a failed policy of individual rotations into and out of a combat zone is insanity (the part where you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results).<br /><br />Cheers,Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-85111844231934162342011-09-02T06:50:09.000-04:002011-09-02T06:50:09.000-04:00LT B:
Regarding unit rotation policy in Vietnam -...LT B:<br /><br />Regarding unit rotation policy in Vietnam - here is merely one reference:<br /><br /><span>In a profession where unit cohesion, combat experience and competent leadership mark the difference between victory and defeat, the Army's rotation policy made little sense to those who lived through it. <i>Crisis in Command: Mismanagement in the Army</i>, written by Major Richard A. Gabriel and Lt. Col. Paul L. Savage, was one of the more thoroughgoing and insightful indictments leveled against the Army in the years following the war. 'The rotation policies operative in Vietnam,' Gabriel and Savage argued, 'virtually foreclosed the possibility of establishing fighting units with a sense of identity, morale, and strong cohesiveness….Not only did the rotation policy foreclose the possibility of developing a sense of unit integrity and responsibility, but it also ensured a continuing supply of low quality, inexperienced officers at the point of greatest stress in any army, namely in its combat units.'</span><br /><br />This may by the first time you have not had someone reflexily gush over what you are doing over in the sand box as a nuclear submariner - sad to say that you are on the wrong end of an experiment (Individual Assignments into a war zone) that has already been done and failed miserably.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-62392996516762185652011-09-01T19:22:49.428-04:002011-09-01T19:22:49.428-04:00Any and all reserves that has not had an IA assign...Any and all reserves that has not had an IA assignment by now should be forced out now!swon6retnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-16657928302925947332011-09-01T15:22:52.677-04:002011-09-01T15:22:52.677-04:00<p><span>My skill set and leadership s...<p><span>My skill set and leadership skills are built on a foundation of experiences. </span><br /></p><p><span>As much as you hate the diversity word, I know from reading other posts that you guys understand the value in operational experience diversity. This idea has been perverted by the diversity industry to mean that in order to have experience diversity you must have a different skin color. I will support posts 100% that attempt to bring this perversion to light. The example used in this post simply isn’t one of them. The analysis performed by CDR S portrayed it as such, thereby diminishing his credibility to those that know where things really came from the next time he posts a real example of diversity perversion (Today’s Diversity Thursday being one of them).</span><br /></p><p><span></span><br /></p><p><span>P.S. I HATE THE LCS</span><br /></p>LT B IInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-19831297393300785402011-09-01T15:22:06.955-04:002011-09-01T15:22:06.955-04:00<p><span>Sean-After reading your post ...<p><span>Sean-After reading your post I have come to the conclusion that if you did a DH tour, you must have been an ENG. As you probably know, submarines do not exist to operate nuclear reactors, and there are, at most, only 4 officers engaged in nuke division officer jobs and 1 Engineer. Sure, everyone is a nuke and we all enjoy the paycheck, but that leaves at a minimum 12 other officers who are not assigned with primary duties as a nuke. I'm posting my IA billet as an example: I work for a unit tasked with performing a very specific mission in support of a battalion level S-2 shop. What I'm really doing is assisting with operations planning, execution, and post mission analysis. If you don’t think this experience will help me execute missions on a submarine that don’t involve boiling water, then you missed the big picture when you were a submariner (boomer guy?) and I’m sorry you had such a poor experience. I think you may be under the impression that most IA’s are guys out on patrols kicking in doors. While there probably are some billets like that, by and large, most of them are not. The army lacks technologically savvy officers with TS/SCI clearances. Sub guys have both. Let me know if you need a further explanation. My unit is based with COMISAF and has an Army O-5 OIC. The other 58 members of my unit are Navy OS’s and Naval Officers from the aviation, submarine, and surface warfare communities. I am at a FOB with 2 of the OS’s. We trained in the US together (most pre-deployment training is with the unit you deploy with). This FOB is small, but still has a total of 13 sailors, including one of the finest Chief Petty Officers I’ve ever encountered. We take care of each other and act as a unit, despite our various mission sets. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a FOB or COP in this country where any sailor is “ALONE.” I'm still trying to find a way to get to BAF for the CPO selectee pinning ceremony (35+ getting pinned at BAF alone). I guess that doesn’t really fit in with your Vietnam example. I’d love to read more about that though...if you have the time to post your references. Please don’t assume that I don’t think what submarines do is important and will be very relevant. If I thought that, I wouldn’t have signed a five year contract to do a DH tour. </span><br /></p>LT B IInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-53964273563794685522011-09-01T15:21:27.378-04:002011-09-01T15:21:27.378-04:00<p>
</p><p>I couldn't fit th...<p><br /></p><p>I couldn't fit this all in one post, so I apologize for the next 3.<br /></p><p> <br /></p><p><span>I thought I had cleared this up, but maybe not. The mentor groups are specific groups within the EDO community. I received the email as part of the EDO Diver mentor group. When I was an ensign I was accepted as an EDO option and was interested in this group, but have since made the decision that I enjoy being a submariner too much to leave it. I don’t know for sure, but I believe there are several other mentor groups for different specialties within the EDO community. I am 99% sure it has NOTHING to do with race/ethnic/gender/sexual orientation. The confusion in the presentation of this post was evident, which is what drove me to post. Had I not received this email personally, I probably would have scanned it, said something to the effect of “oh that salamander” and went on with my day. I have to admit that this experience makes me wonder what else has been poorly presented on this blog. </span><br /></p><p><span></span><br /></p><p><span>OldCob- I’ve always respected COB’s. Always. I will admit I made some poor word choices. But, you have to admit that your reply is exactly what I’m talking about. You didn’t say anything with any substance. More of the same: We have all the great ideas, we believe we can do better. Well, step up to the plate COB, and give us your ideas on improving the IA process. Otherwise, you’re just another chief sitting in the corner talking about how if only you were the CO. If truly were a COB, you know and can do better than that. Please do.</span><br /><br /></p>LT B IInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14650721813467752452011-09-01T09:30:10.939-04:002011-09-01T09:30:10.939-04:00Okay...I will play. Actually I do want an explana...Okay...I will play. Actually I do want an explanation of why we feel the best possible use for a nuclear trained submarine officer is over in the sand boxes of Iraq and/ or Afghanistan. Running many nuclear reactors over there? Feel free to use all the nuke jargon you want in your explanation as to how this make you a better bubblehead, you are not the only one on this site.<br /><br />The IA process is failed experiment that went HORRIBLY wrong in our experience in Vietnam. Rotating individuals into a combat theater of operations is a disaster. Been there done that as a nation and have the scars (physical and emotional) to prove it. As one who tries to never offer criticism without offering a suitable plan, here it is...stop doing IA. Rotate UNITS in and put of the theater of operations. This individuality crap is getting people killed who have no business being there ALONE in the first place.<br /><br />As a submariner you signed up and trained real hard to be a steely eyed killer of the deep. Excellent. Don't fret about sitting the current fracas in Iraq or Afghanistan out...sadly I think your particular set of skills are going to be needed sooner than you apparently think.Seannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-19426616852955219032011-09-01T08:30:55.166-04:002011-09-01T08:30:55.166-04:00Your remarks, after reading this blog for 6 years,...Your remarks, after reading this blog for 6 years, indicate a need to brush up your comprehension skills.<br /><br />You call us a cult. An unfortunate word choice implying a negative stereotype. We are, by and large, an eclectic group with valid concerns for the Navy, now and into the future. Rarely do we all agree and some posts generate more heat than others, particuarly those that bring out the trolls.<br /><br />We have no manifesto - another unfortunate word choice - other than identifying what we believe is wrong with the Navy and what should be done about it. <br /><br />The Navy, our Navy, is in extermis due to extraordinarily bad decision making starting at the top. From LCS to the diversity bullies we are less capable and trending in the wrong direction. As long as Cdr Sal leaves the porch light on we will be here, you might be surprised at the folks that show up just to listen.OldCOBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-74590245361878067742011-09-01T07:34:05.582-04:002011-09-01T07:34:05.582-04:00LT B II,
I applaud your desire to get into the ga...LT B II,<br /><br />I applaud your desire to get into the game. It is meaningful work, to be sure. <br /><br />Don't so much know about Salamander's "cult". There is often significant disagreement among the denizens of the porch, on some very fundamental issues. Marines don't do "IA", at least not in the form the Navy does. Our system consists of "You're going to (fillin the blank)". And every Marine is a rifleman, Officers included. We are also expected to figure it out as we go. As you are aware, always a challenge. <br /><br />I don't believe I have commented on the Navy's IA system before because it isn't of particular interest, and no, I don't have a better method. However, one thing I will definitely say is that it should never become a ticket punch for racial/ethnic/gender/sexual orientation groups within the Navy. Such is wrong in so many ways. And watching the social engineering push from this and the last CNO, I don't find it all that unlikely that they would mandate such. <br /><br />So, like others commenting here, I would like to know why this is addressed to be "passed out to mentor groups".UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-22002742244306680872011-09-01T05:26:29.950-04:002011-09-01T05:26:29.950-04:00<p>First sub guy who received this email pos...<p>First sub guy who received this email posting again...I'm also a LT B, but not of the LT Black variety.<br /></p><p> <br /></p><p>I finished my JO Sea tour and asked to come out here for a lot of reasons. One was because I didn't want to have to tell my kids that I served in the US armed forces during the Afghan and Iraqi wars and never stepped foot in either country. There are more, but I don't owe an explanation to any of you as to why I am a submarine officer in the middle of Afghanistan.<br /></p><p> <br /></p><p>If the gentleman supervising concrete pours only supervised concrete pours (which I highly doubt was the case) then that is his fault for not making his skill set known to whatever unit he was in. I am assigned to a job with a very narrow billet description. I am involved in stuff that has nothing to do with my billet description because I can use the my skill set in other places. As a result, I'm a better officer with a broader point of view, something that you guys seem to have a problem with for some reason. <br /></p><p> <br /></p><p>CDR Salamander...I've been reading this blog for almost 6 years. You and your cult of supporters are very quick to fire the first, second, and third volleys against anything and everything the Navy does, but rarely offer what should be done instead. IA's aren't going away. What is the better plan? I recommend that the Salamander Clan gets together, comes up with a plan and posts it on the <a href="http://www.usfleetforces.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">fleet forces blog</a>. I've been told ADM Harvey reads it on Sundays, so plan accordingly. Better yet, you seem to have enough celebrity to get ADM Harvey on MIDRATS, you can rattle off your plan during your talk show. I'd be more than happy to log on live from Afghanistan and listen to your manifesto.<br /><br /></p><p><a href="mailto:prospecthill3@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow"><br /></a><br /></p><p><a href="mailto:prospecthill3@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow">Standing by for the pending attack...</a></p>LT B IInoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21073072007929301742011-08-31T23:54:23.651-04:002011-08-31T23:54:23.651-04:00Porter. They served it at the Admiral Benbow Inn. ...Porter. They served it at the Admiral Benbow Inn. Good stuff. Good name too.Grandpa Bluewaternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-3518366522115065022011-08-31T23:52:02.604-04:002011-08-31T23:52:02.604-04:00Start? You been asleep? Where do you think we get...Start? You been asleep? Where do you think we get such nice juicy bones?<br /><br />Rodents just don't get canine diet.Grandpa Bluewaternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-62264272314014780442011-08-31T23:46:41.469-04:002011-08-31T23:46:41.469-04:00I guess I better take a forklift into one of the b...I guess I better take a forklift into one of the beer coolers down in the under porch tunnels, and send another pallet of beer up on the beer/ordnance lift up to porch level. What do you want, so I know which tunnel to look in?SCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8242752139275994242011-08-31T23:44:06.307-04:002011-08-31T23:44:06.307-04:00If you are gonna start tearing people apart on the...If you are gonna start tearing people apart on the porch on a regular basis, I'm just gonna leave the pressure washer up here, and let you clean up after yourself. Just remember what tunnel under the porch it goes back in. SCOTTtheBADGERnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-80834528871802691662011-08-31T22:51:28.455-04:002011-08-31T22:51:28.455-04:00That was my point.
@phib...We all know that you u...That was my point.<br /><br />@phib...We all know that you use to do this. The Navy will never be as good as it was when you were prowling the seas. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-86888002209844741972011-08-31T19:53:37.677-04:002011-08-31T19:53:37.677-04:00And, see, now you gotta schmooze the SgtMaj for yo...And, see, now you gotta schmooze the SgtMaj for your liberty card! UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-65207438049061742632011-08-31T19:52:58.372-04:002011-08-31T19:52:58.372-04:00WHAT?!?!?! ENGAGED? After all we've done for...WHAT?!?!?! ENGAGED? After all we've done for you? You didn't listen to a word we said, did you?UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-12573241109177477152011-08-31T19:00:39.233-04:002011-08-31T19:00:39.233-04:00Much yayness! And congrats to you both!Much yayness! And congrats to you both!DeltaBravonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-50521679025646575562011-08-31T18:27:25.196-04:002011-08-31T18:27:25.196-04:00Now have to run away before she figures that I am ...Now have to run away before she figures that I am "on that Salamander thingie..."Salty Gator "Guest"noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-75608353247429654512011-08-31T18:27:20.094-04:002011-08-31T18:27:20.094-04:00Sorry that was me. On my second beer (and 1st hal...Sorry that was me. On my second beer (and 1st half bottle of champagne). JUST GOT ENGAGED!Salty Gator "Guest"noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-84838811413209093792011-08-31T18:26:10.163-04:002011-08-31T18:26:10.163-04:00HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Senior" LTjg....
Seni...HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "Senior" LTjg....<br /><br />Seniority amongst junior officers is like virginity amongst prostitutes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-34465197502777464142011-08-31T15:51:14.442-04:002011-08-31T15:51:14.442-04:00You save money on per diem then. ;) P3 Pilots g...You save money on per diem then. ;) P3 Pilots get a lot of that. LT Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-30117556560006900872011-08-31T15:18:10.941-04:002011-08-31T15:18:10.941-04:00Unless its changed they were/are about 18 mos tour...Unless its changed they were/are about 18 mos tours. On paper it was 2yrs at ensign and 2 yrs at jg.Mike F.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-7923882846924333292011-08-31T11:16:51.727-04:002011-08-31T11:16:51.727-04:00Very true.
Additionally, Army's (Army AC/RC/N...Very true.<br /><br />Additionally, Army's (Army AC/RC/NG) end strength increased by ~120,000 between FY05 and FY10. During that same period, Navy's (AC/RC) end strength decreased by ~50,000 (but it could have been worse).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com