tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post2758563084767522124..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Fullbore FridayCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14840286098681608462012-01-22T07:33:16.157-05:002012-01-22T07:33:16.157-05:00ewok: it wasn't limited funds, there was credi...ewok: it wasn't limited funds, there was credit from the US and some of the capital ships that put paid to Bismark a few days after she sank the Hood were already scheduled for US yards to overhaul them. It was lost industrial capacity in the interwar years, due, in part, to small orders for new ships from the Royal Navy. The Brits went to war with the Navy they had, the cost of the missed opportunities from lack of prudent proper prior planning was lethal to Hood's sailors (with three very lucky exceptions), and, in the fullness of time, to the British Empire.<br /><br />Industrial base is the foundation of logistics, and logistics rules. Forget that at your (children's) peril.Grandpa Bluewaternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-28257140509954540162012-01-21T11:27:43.490-05:002012-01-21T11:27:43.490-05:00Tradition is so overrated. After all, didn't ...Tradition is so overrated. After all, didn't our First Lady wonder openly about all the fuss for just a FLAG? <br /><br />All tradition gives you is pride in service, examples of courage and leadership, identity, professionalism, and espirit. <br /><br />Tradition isn't new and exciting, it isn't "outside the box", it is hardly <i>transformational</i>, and sure as hell isn't Diverse.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-24030876261948567152012-01-21T09:07:11.203-05:002012-01-21T09:07:11.203-05:00yep, but my point would be rather, then why can...yep, but my point would be rather, then why can't USN have another Enterprise????ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-85647198369017424532012-01-21T08:29:53.477-05:002012-01-21T08:29:53.477-05:00And one German Naval Lieutenant named Canaris, who...And one German Naval Lieutenant named Canaris, who was the only one to escape from <i>Dresden</i>, and would have a cloak and dagger affair across two continents. And would wind up in the employ of his country in the next war, too.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8389322352382674662012-01-21T07:05:12.788-05:002012-01-21T07:05:12.788-05:00One of the things we should note is how the same n...One of the things we should note is how the same names will pop up later in history - from Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, to the namesake of the admiral Spee that would end not so far from the area of the battle, to another Invincible leading another RN task force decades later to retake Falklands from another foe...ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-14579588305162819972012-01-20T17:47:21.128-05:002012-01-20T17:47:21.128-05:00Yes, and it is interesting to see the merging of t...Yes, and it is interesting to see the merging of the battleship/battle cruiser designs as the Badens and the Mackensens began to resemble each other in appearance, armament, and even protection. UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-87249690202620444312012-01-20T17:40:27.777-05:002012-01-20T17:40:27.777-05:00In fact Bismarck was pretty much evolution from th...In fact Bismarck was pretty much evolution from the Mackensen design...ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-52405606528730393082012-01-20T17:37:51.395-05:002012-01-20T17:37:51.395-05:00True bane of Bismarck was a single torpedo deliver...True bane of Bismarck was a single torpedo delivered by Swordfish, that rendered steering mechanism unusable and eventually forced it ot run in circles... unable to maneuver freely she was eventually surrounded by superior forces and outgunned decisively. It was a sign of things to come that it was carrier plane that decided the fate of Bismarck...ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8039100541828121442012-01-20T16:37:15.942-05:002012-01-20T16:37:15.942-05:00Mike M.
The battle cruisers were fast and hard-hi...Mike M.<br /><br />The battle cruisers were fast and hard-hitting. But the original concept of employment was to overwhelm and outgun the enemy "scout cruisers" which were the eyes of a rival fleet.<br /><br />The RN had ships with a heavyweight punch and a welterweight jaw. Whereas the High Seas Fleet had ships with a cruiserweight punch and superheavyweight jaw. <br /><br />And the <a href="http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_mackensen_class_cruisers.html" rel="nofollow"><i>Mackensens</i> would have had a heavyweight punch</a>. They were, in fact, the first true fast battleships. Four knots faster than the <i>Queen Elizabeths</i>. The threat of these ships was sufficient to spawn the <i>Hoods</i>.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-33164823799912201322012-01-20T16:31:29.979-05:002012-01-20T16:31:29.979-05:00yeah but the germans had a bad habit of running co...yeah but the germans had a bad habit of running control/information cables across the open deck where they could be hit easily rather than at least under the splinter decks and best below the armor decks to protect them from incomming.<br /><br />supposedly loss of bismarck can be traced directly to that in that biz had to shift to local control of the main turret that was not masked at the worst possible time. <br /><br />Cpknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-78551269388819603252012-01-20T16:28:51.230-05:002012-01-20T16:28:51.230-05:00You are correct, GBW. Hood never got her refit.
...You are correct, GBW. <i>Hood</i> never got her refit. <br /><br />Yes, no major threats. No war for ten years. What a solid, realistic, well-grounded National Security Strategy. Right as rain in 1928. Not so much in 1938. <br /><br />Kinda like having a Maritime Strategy knowing you haven't the hulls or capabilities to execute half of it....UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-29424308607804589032012-01-20T16:07:13.302-05:002012-01-20T16:07:13.302-05:00Mike M: It was only in mid-30s that new designs of...Mike M: It was only in mid-30s that new designs of BBs caught up in speed to BCs, with some older classes like British QE gaining speed thru modernization. Plethora of various factors, including the treaty limitations resulted in many of mid-30s BB designs in being sub-optimal (280mm guns on Scharnhorst, 356mm on KG V, etc.) - it was only when those limits were truly gone the apex classes of Bismarck, Yamato and Iowa were created. Alas, the new breed of capital ship, the carrier has moved the BBs into the supporting position by then...<br />Grandpa: what is important, Brits got their limited funds concentrated on things that proved invaluable, Radar and modern fighters in the shape of Hurricane and Spitfire. French by comparison, dumped money and resources into the Maginot line...<br />URR: Germans not only were more masterful in handling gunpowder, they perfected the watertight compartmentalization of their capital ships almost to the level of "honeycomb" structure which was evident in the amount of punishment Bismarck and Tirpitz were able to take...ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-36993294410173581622012-01-20T15:36:44.213-05:002012-01-20T15:36:44.213-05:00(Ewok & URR)...although for twenty years befor...(Ewok & URR)...although for twenty years before the loss of Hood, the defect was known and a fix available, it was deferred due to lack of funds.<br /><br />Funding was based on a formal position that no threat of major war existed for at least a decade in the future, which was renewed each year until the German threat became imminent and obvious. Then a shortage of industrial capacity for shipalts existed due to the high priority assigned to new construction. <br /><br />Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.Grandpa Bluewaternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-10464253179885068352012-01-20T15:03:14.286-05:002012-01-20T15:03:14.286-05:00Indeed, Maximillian Graf von Spee would perish, al...Indeed, Maximillian Graf von Spee would perish, along with sons Otto (aboard <i>Nurnberg</i>) and Heinrich (<i>Gneisenau</i>) in the battle. Otto was 24, Heinrich, 21.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-86342738987613797062012-01-20T13:56:45.249-05:002012-01-20T13:56:45.249-05:00The Batte of the Fakland Islands has always touche...The Batte of the Fakland Islands has always touched me. A lot of brave, honorable men, stranded halfway around the world, trying to fight their way home.Mike M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-89171887646338924282012-01-20T13:54:16.590-05:002012-01-20T13:54:16.590-05:00I think part of the use of BCs was that they were ...I think part of the use of BCs was that they were <i>fast</i> and hard-hitting. An admiral looking for a fast strike force wanted fast BBs...but BCs would do.Mike M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-29845550332296870262012-01-20T13:52:15.003-05:002012-01-20T13:52:15.003-05:00Only in part. URR is dead on target. The British...Only in part. URR is dead on target. The British used very poor powder handling practices. If fire reached a magazine, an explosion was likely. The Germans dodged that cannonball, learned their lesson to heart.Mike M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-31287821717546469252012-01-20T12:25:07.368-05:002012-01-20T12:25:07.368-05:00Indeed. And there were several instances before a...Indeed. And there were several instances before and between the wars where the Royal Navy's cavalier handling of powders was evident. The Germans, interestingly, used brass casings to reduce the chances of flash fires from hot splinters. <br /><br />The RN paid the price for their failure to learn the hard lessons.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-23330688372270098462012-01-20T12:11:52.667-05:002012-01-20T12:11:52.667-05:00The US Navy in the War of 1812 taught the RN the v...The US Navy in the War of 1812 taught the RN the value of "good shooting". Looks like they took the lesson to heart.Byronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-43504242180934060532012-01-20T12:06:24.777-05:002012-01-20T12:06:24.777-05:00in fact the inherent flaw of the British battlecru...in fact the inherent flaw of the British battlecruisers persisted until the demise of Hood in the 1941 battle with the Bismarck....ewok40knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-73539279121206997342012-01-20T08:54:13.712-05:002012-01-20T08:54:13.712-05:00This is perhaps the only instance of Jackie Fisher...This is perhaps the only instance of Jackie Fisher's "cats" being employed in the role for which they were initially conceived. <br /><br />One has to wonder how much the illusion of abosorbing punishment from 8.2" guns influenced the concept of employing battle cruisers against battleships and other battle cruisers...<br /><br /><i>Invincible</i> had just over 18 months to live. What killed her and her sisters almost killed <i>Seydlitz</i> at Dogger Bank six weeks after the Falklands battle (potential for a turret fire to reach powder handling and powder magazines). Germany modified all of its Dreadnoughts to safeguard against such an occurrence. Britain, without the experience of a near-disaster, did not.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.com