tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post1793848815295026150..comments2024-01-03T05:18:54.650-05:00Comments on CDR Salamander: Diversity ThursdayCDR Salamanderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05981221786954902349noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-21130209961744512522011-09-09T16:10:20.333-04:002011-09-09T16:10:20.333-04:00The Navy's not the only service focusing it ef...The Navy's not the only service focusing it efforts on diversity. The USCG's civilian recruiters are at it as well: http://www.uscg.mil/civilian/events.aspCharleyAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-413417202134928732011-09-09T07:33:32.698-04:002011-09-09T07:33:32.698-04:00<span>"If you want to do Dept of Edu...<span>"If you want to do Dept of Edu'ma'cation's work - go there."</span><br /><br />The fact that other portions of the government feel the need to step in and "fix" education speaks volumes about the effectiveness (more precisely, the lack thereof) of the Department of Education.<br /><br />You want more money for O&M -- start with zeroing out the Dept of Education budget, and transfer the funds to DoD O&M accounts. Same goes for the other DoE. Funny how both are creations of that damned peanut farmer...<br /><br />Oh, and just to show that I'm an equal opportunity offender -- fixing our education system isn't as simple as issuing edicts regarding mandatory testing. The problems run much deeper, and have to be addressed at a cultural level. Having ONR show a couple of Powerpoint slides at a Diversity Diktat lovefest ain't the way to start.Grumpy Old Hamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-55049719702330671902011-09-09T01:35:45.109-04:002011-09-09T01:35:45.109-04:00Think of this as recruiting money well spent, rath...Think of this as recruiting money well spent, rather than diversity money wasted.John Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-19938472320044864222011-09-08T23:24:45.701-04:002011-09-08T23:24:45.701-04:00(cont'd ) <span>I understand CDR Salaman...(cont'd ) <span>I understand CDR Salamander’s frustration with the current situation, but I think the time is now right to start changing the course of the bureaucracy toward solving the root problems rather than tearing down many of the efforts of folks to make whiskey sours out of lemons.<span> </span>Clearly “genuflecting as directed” has not worked, so what are the solutions (understanding that Rome and the current Diversity direction was not built in a day and building something is a lot more complicated than tearing something down).<span> </span>That’s the tack I would take, and I have some ideas about a new and more productive course.<span> </span>The first is changing the metrics because metrics don’t really measure things…Metrics drive behaviors.<span> </span>CDR S rightly points out (in so many words) that the current set of metrics are driving wrong-headed behaviors.<span> </span>On this we agree.</span><br /><br /><br /><span> <br /></span>B. Walthropnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-53946592588015982192011-09-08T23:23:53.982-04:002011-09-08T23:23:53.982-04:00<span>(cont'd) In response to the percep...<span>(cont'd) In response to the perception that the military and the American public were growing apart, the diversity initiatives were born.<span> </span>Unfortunately, the metrics used to track these efforts were lazy because they were readily available.<span> </span>Skin color is easy to see. Ethnicity is easy to estimate given that self-reporting (with all of the associated flaws) was easy as well.<span> </span>In a misguided effort to foster inclusiveness, the bureaucracy took a well meaning effort (connecting the military with the general public), and turned it into a bit of a laugh.</span><br /><span> </span><br /><span>Not everyone buys into that rhetoric, and given the situation they try to make whiskey sours out of the lemons they were handed.<span> </span>I believe ONR’s effort to foster and interest in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics across a broad cross section of secondary school students is one of these efforts.<span> </span>It gets labeled as a “Diversity” initiative because those are that metrics that OPNAV has chosen to track, but the fact of the matter is that if the US is not able to generate a cadre of folks educated in hard sciences both with a willingness to endure the deprivations of military and government service, then the USMC and the USN will find themselves in a real hurt locker 20 years from now.</span>B. Walthropnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-63610436980677507172011-09-08T23:22:26.542-04:002011-09-08T23:22:26.542-04:00<p><span>Perhaps you're both right...<p><span>Perhaps you're both right and the CNO's speech has not been overplayed. Since the CMC's speech was to a group of serving officers (both junior and senior), I’d say <span> </span>it's been underplayed. I really don't see much a distinction between the two speeches as they are both just "genuflecting as directed."</span><br /></p><p><span> </span><br /></p><p><span>As a Navy partisan, I suppose I have just grown a bit weary of the last argument of kings suggesting that the USN is lost when there is plenty of house cleaning to be done on the green side as well. Now that we've both proven we can set up strawmen for the other to attempt to knock down, let's address the real issues.</span><br /></p><p><span> </span><br /><span>The USG (including USN and USMC) have chosen lazy metrics to measure "diversity" in an unfulfilled hope of re-connecting the military with the American public at large. The metrics they're using are clearly wrong-headed, somewhat divisive, and perhaps un-American. There are a number of reasons that the military and the American public have become disconnected. For the USN it started after the de-glamorization campaigns following Tail Hook. The attacks (subtle but real) on the club system had that access point pretty well on life support, and then 9/11 happened. The bases closed, and for the last 10 years, the military and the American public were separated by walls. </span><br /></p>B. Walthropnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-517497025942204422011-09-08T23:16:47.296-04:002011-09-08T23:16:47.296-04:00Bistro,
I think the good LT and CDR were discussi...Bistro,<br /><br />I think the good LT and CDR were discussing individual positions, not contracts. But I'm with you on contract awards. Some companies which shall remain nameless have minority-stake ownership by female-minority-"disabled" veterans so that they can scoot boots to the front of the line and claim their piece of the pie. The minority-stake owner has an office, a phone, a computer, and an 8 hour lunch break every day.Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-8481339118720300442011-09-08T23:13:58.824-04:002011-09-08T23:13:58.824-04:00somebody got a spell-check......somebody got a spell-check......Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-60776481825381860082011-09-08T23:13:01.366-04:002011-09-08T23:13:01.366-04:00Dear Bubba,
Your presence must not be missed in m...Dear Bubba,<br /><br />Your presence must not be missed in most DoN meetings then. Because everything is in powerpoint.<br /><br />R,<br />Salty GatorSalty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-63378903439585176462011-09-08T23:11:40.551-04:002011-09-08T23:11:40.551-04:00And you did. Period. The honor is all of yours. ...And you did. Period. The honor is all of yours. And no more or less based on the color of your skin, which is lost on these clowns.Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-9755005073018369882011-09-08T23:09:52.052-04:002011-09-08T23:09:52.052-04:00Why is ONR developing a Total Ownership Cost model...Why is ONR developing a Total Ownership Cost model? Isn't that a NAVSEA05C task? Shouldn't ONR be focusing on, say, guns, missiles, ammunition, propulsion systems, HM&E, hull forms, CORROSION, directed energy weapons, enhanced secure communications, fuel substitutes / economy?<br /><br />I hate when I am told by ONR and industry types that "fleet is really excited about this technology" that ONR is developing on their own without a fleet requirement. What is a fleet requirement? Here's an example: It is a Joint Operational Urgent Need (JUON), a Urgent Need Statement / Urgent Operational Need (UNS / UON), it is a solution to a validated capability gap by the J-ROC or the Navy component dependent upon the ACAT. To be honest, if fleet was really excited about something, it would come back to us in the five sided puzzle palace in more than a one liner email hand carried by ONR or industry.<br /><br />A lot of good ideas floating around. Precious few requirements. Money goes to requirements. And not enough, in my opinion. So to that end, HOW ABOUT ONR SETS ABOUT SOLVING OUR REQUIREMENTS ISSUES / MAKING MATERIEL SOLUTIONS CHEAPER BEFORE THEY EMBARK ON THEIR OWN SCIENCE FAIR PROJECTS?<br /><br />Same goes for you, NPS...Salty Gatornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-28306781686263401372011-09-08T22:45:44.001-04:002011-09-08T22:45:44.001-04:00No it isn't. As you well know.
small, disadvan...No it isn't. As you well know.<br />small, disadvanted, HUB, women, veteran owned, minority owned businesses only need apply. That's the law.bistromathematician@gmail.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-53113187362664808772011-09-08T22:21:28.755-04:002011-09-08T22:21:28.755-04:00B.W.,
Overplayed? No. When I was in AFG the CNO ...B.W.,<br />Overplayed? No. When I was in AFG the CNO came by and had a "CNO Call." Right off the bat - the beginning of his pep talk, he came out discussing how Diversity was his #1 priority and he was working very hard at it. Overplayed? No. Even in AFG, that is what he felt he needed to talk about to a group of Sailor that simply did not care about the subject.<br /><br />It was at that time that I noticed that the group he was speaking to - the USN/USNR Narmy I was part of was just about if not majority "minority" depending on how you defined people. The CNO's gaggle that came in was on visual inspection 100% of European extraction. <br /><br />Also to add to the feeling, in our all Navy group, there were Sailors in DCU, ACU, MARPAT, BDU, flight suits and mixtures of the above. The CNO's gaggle was all perfect DCU.CDR Salamandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-73433198374497414922011-09-08T21:55:44.262-04:002011-09-08T21:55:44.262-04:00CNO's speech is overplayed? Huh. In front of...CNO's speech is overplayed? Huh. In front of future officers, he makes that speech. Overplayed? Not hardly. <br /><br />How do I square the circle? <br /><br />General Amos is indeed "providing the best trained and equipped Marine units to Afghanistan." <br /><br />Admiral Roughead hasn't exactly <span>ensured that the Navy will "c<span><span>ontinue to be the most dominant, ready and influential naval force, globally and across all naval missions." In fact, with his endless diversity push, "optimal manning", and shipbuilding and maintenance as a shambles, he has done anything but.</span></span></span>UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-48877846734111625852011-09-08T20:01:12.027-04:002011-09-08T20:01:12.027-04:00That is true...CMC's #1 Priority is to "c...That is true...CMC's #1 Priority is to "continue to provide the best trained and equipped Marine units to Afghanistan."<br /><br />This is from the General Amos Planning Guidance for 2011. <br /><br />Priority #4 from this document is to "keep faith with our Marines, our Sailors and our families."<br /><br />The second step toward this goal is<span><b> </b>to "improve diversity representation throughout our Corps."</span><br /><br />Strangely, the CNO's guidance for 2011 is very similar to the CMC's guidance for 2011. The first priority (focus in the navy vernacular) is to "c<span><span>ontinue to be the most dominant, ready and influential naval force, globally and across all naval missions."</span></span><br /><p><b><i><br /></i></b><br />Diversity is mentioned (but only once like the CMC's guidance),and it is well down the page and not in the headline focus area. Here's the link if you don't believe me:<br /><br />http://www.navy.mil/features/CNOG%202011.pdf<br /><br />Now I know that the speech the CNO gave at USNA got quite a bit of attention here on the front porch, but I think it has been overplayed. I'll offer you a similar speech (to a more limited audience) by General Amos that suggests "The Marine Corps has established minority officer recruiting as a top priority in our recruiting efforts." Here's that link:<br /><br />http://www.marines.mil/unit/hqmc/cmc/Documents/CMC%20NNOA%20Slides%20v4%20CMC%20vers.pdf<br /><br />This quote was featured prominently in a slide show presented to the National Naval Officer's Association. I believe this is one of those affinity groups that get some play around this place on Thursdays.<br /><br />I suppose you're suggesting that General Amos is genuflecting as directed, but perhaps we should give the CNO the same benefit of the doubt in a speech given to a similarly limited audience. How do you square that circle?</p>B. Walthropnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-32473520127376417322011-09-08T18:53:04.837-04:002011-09-08T18:53:04.837-04:00Here's some more food for thought, BW.
USMC ...Here's some more food for thought, BW. <br /><br />USMC is likely mandated to go along, and will genuflect when told. But the difference is this:<br /><br />The CNO's stated Number One Priority is Diversity.<br /><br />The Commandant's stated Number One Priority is supporting the Marines in contact with the enemy.<br /><br />Food for thought.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-49995983699379860702011-09-08T18:38:33.452-04:002011-09-08T18:38:33.452-04:00<span>"We never pay anyone Dane-Geld, ...<span>"We never pay anyone Dane-Geld, <br />No matter how trifling the cost. <br />For the end of that game is oppression and shame, <br />And the nation that pays it is lost." </span><br /><br />This got me wondering just who "We" are in this allusion to the current discussion, so I did some digging and this is what I came up with.....<br /><br />BEHOLD<br /><br /><a href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quantico.usmc.mil%2Fdownload.aspx%3FPath%3D.%2FUploads%2FFiles%2FEO_MCB%2520Diversity%2520policy%2520statement%255B1%255D.pdf&rct=j&q=usmc%20diversity&ei=J0FpTt_TM-Ta0QHXqN2BDA&usg=AFQjCNEV-Jr_lT0ramlMmiAkErabq_XQAw" rel="nofollow">MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO POLICY STATEMENT ON ...</a><br />https://www.marines.usmc.mil/PA_NEW/NEWS_HQ/HQ_2010_031.htm<br />http://www.marines.mil/unit/divpa/nycpa/Pages/NewsStories/090714NAACP.aspx<br />http://www.marines.mil/news/messages/Pages/MARADMIN651-08.aspx<br />http://www.onr.navy.mil/~/media/Files/Funding-Announcements/BAA/10-023-STEM-BAA.ashx<br /><br />That last link is actually a grant announcement to support STEM programs from ONR for both USN and USMC STEM Programs. I suppose this is not surprising that the USMC is included. Just look at ONR's logo.<br /><br />I suppose all of those USMC initiatives represent thousands or tens of thousands of dollars that could be better spent on training and equipping Lance Corporals, Privates, and Sergeants.<br /><br />Consider it Dane-Geld. It looks like the USMC, CMC, and Quantico are lost as well.<br /><br />Now, I don't really believe the above rhetoric. The current fad in the USG (including the USN and USMC) as a whole is more comedic than dangerous. Like many fads that have come before (parachute pants, the resurgence of penny loafers, big hair, and leg warmers) it will loose its cache' because the Gen X, Gen Y, and Millenials simply don't place much stock in the metrics being used to measure diversity as defined by the DoN. <br /><br />Food for thought.B. Walthropnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-33404128175128848282011-09-08T17:58:06.401-04:002011-09-08T17:58:06.401-04:00Anybody who cares about hurricanes should have thi...Anybody who cares about hurricanes should have this website <a href="http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/TC.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/TC.html</a><br /><br />If the guys who share this work with us want to have a hotel weekend to promote diversity, I say, let 'em. Bubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-91533673787214467452011-09-08T16:52:14.322-04:002011-09-08T16:52:14.322-04:00Cdr,
Don't look at powerpoint slides! They c...Cdr,<br /><br />Don't look at powerpoint slides! They cause brain damage. I have an absolute adversion to powerpoint; I'll get up and walk out of the room. The quality of my life is so much better. Don't look at powerpoint!<br /><br />Love, <br /><br />BubbaBubbanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-18680894775425844232011-09-08T14:19:15.024-04:002011-09-08T14:19:15.024-04:00That chump change could be funding necessary, even...That chump change could be funding necessary, even required training for junior sailors. Which commands don't have. So they go without. And the operating fleet suffers.<br /><br />"We never pay anyone Dane-Geld,<br />No matter how trifling the cost.<br />For the end of that game is oppression and shame,<br />And the nation that pays it is lost."<br /><br />Consider it Dane-Geld. And USN/ONR lost.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-67744831646926638862011-09-08T13:53:15.830-04:002011-09-08T13:53:15.830-04:00you know, looking back at my time in Iraq, I know ...you know, looking back at my time in Iraq, I know we had minorities at the task force...but I couldn't tell you how many, apart from the ones I directly supervised, because quite frankly we had other priorities...like supporting the war.<br /><br />All I know is we had good morale, people worked hard, and we tried to get shit done.Actus Rhesusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-54970315728078489702011-09-08T13:42:04.426-04:002011-09-08T13:42:04.426-04:00I don't agree with this. To some extent, ever...I don't agree with this. To some extent, every R&D organization does its own projects, but at ONR they must have a definite payoff in the Fleet. The projects I've worked on for ONR have been very focused on delivering what the Fleet wants. I've also seen many that have gotten quickly cut off even though the science was working but it was becoming obvious that the project would not deliver something useful to Sailors and Marines.<br /><br />In the current project I'm working on, ONR is little more a conduit for the funding - my team and I are working directly with SWOS to build exactly what they want. In the last ONR project I worked on, the Marines were incredibly excited about how the technology could make the Coyotes' job at 29 Palms much easier and improve the Marines' training.<br /><br />I think ONR does a good job of being responsive to the Fleet's needs.Perrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-37106312205855811932011-09-08T10:44:51.285-04:002011-09-08T10:44:51.285-04:00Let me know how that turns out. With their mania ...Let me know how that turns out. With their mania for "right-sizing" and "optimal manning", I have yet to see the USN have the slightest idea about TCO. Which is largely a function of design of the system and subsystems of particular platforms, and not a "one size fits all" modeling template.UltimaRatioRegisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-12189889076764953502011-09-08T10:36:50.447-04:002011-09-08T10:36:50.447-04:00Roger, copy all. :)Roger, copy all. :)LT Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7704146.post-84373564628655555542011-09-08T10:36:21.980-04:002011-09-08T10:36:21.980-04:00That's ok, we have a Navy Ethos now, so thank ...That's ok, we have a Navy Ethos now, so thank Christ above we have that now. We evidently sucked eggs the other 200 some years before that ethos was written.LT Bnoreply@blogger.com