Want to get a look-see at the new Supe at Annapolis? Want some good news about the USNA, and even - perhaps - see a vision of a new look at Diversity?
Could we be turning a corner - or at least taking an oblique?
Well - go over to USNIBlog to read my last post there and find out.
He comes across as quite the gentleman. USNA needs to attract one thing: Competent people. Everything else is secondary.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest mistake the Supe made was to quote the "idealization" quote of John Paul Jones.
ReplyDeleteIt is not an idealization but a fabrication known as the Buell Fabrication.
Speaking of the military academies....
ReplyDeleteUSAF Officer @ Hoover Institute has some thoughts:
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/49541
Glad you share my impressions, Sal. I tend to be a bit of an idealist, but certainly don't come across that way, so having someone like you confirm my sense of the Supe is reassuring...time will tell if he's more than good talk.
ReplyDeleteThis again????
ReplyDeleteThe Supe brought it up. He also said he was a pragmatist so the underlying message is that if the lie works and is practical for our purposes than we will continue to refer to it.
ReplyDeleteThis type of mentality reinforces all the lies and check the box mentalities that continue to surface on a fairly regular basis.
Otherwise the Supe is ignorant of John Paul Jones history and hasn't read Samuel Morison's biography or this from a former Annapolis professor.
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/johnpauljones.htm
Here we go with the "only" truth is the Peikoff style Randian "truth"....
ReplyDeletePragmatists, and anyone who is in the least compassionate towards their fellow man, do not deserve to continue their existence.
Sid,
ReplyDeleteif I am the only Alumni to throw out the BS flag when the Supe stands before fellow Alumni and quotes the Buell Fabrication and says it is an idealization of several JPJ letters than so be it.
It is a matter of principles.
No one minds that Rick...its just that you won't stop there, but instead try to prosyletize the canonized views of Peikoff.
ReplyDeleteAll of which are based on a piece of too long fiction
Trolls and thread jacks. Let's get back on topic. I hope he can maintain common sense, honor, and loyalty to the true need for diversity and not the industry's desire to put the proper number of brown/red/yellow/white/purple people eating faces in the picture. I remain hopeful.
ReplyDeleteSing Johnny One Note, sing out with gusto...
ReplyDeleteDuring my service, I noticed that....it not enough that a naval officer be just a capable mariner. He must be that, of course, but also a great deal more...These words, and those that follow, whether written by Jones or Buell or AB Strormalong, Foretopman, are a description of the qualities found in the best naval officers. If you aren't willing to try to live up to them, I recommend you seek employment elsewhere. Just like Rick Wilmes has.
You may quote me.
Oh, hooray! Good news from the CDR at last! I shall revel in it. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd I will say a little prayer for the man and for his very important mission.
Grandpa,
ReplyDeleteWhen an individual discovers that he is working in a philosophical and morally corrupt institution one of the rational choices is to seek employment elsewhere.
Cdr. Salamander would not be dedicating every Thursday to diversity if he did not see the corruption that is going on in the Navy.
The point is that none of this happened overnight or in the last several years. If the qualities in the Buell Fabrication are indeed what makes an officer than the Supe should say that but don't give a half assed mealy mouthed diatribe saying it is an "idealization". There are Alumni that know better.
Rick,
ReplyDeleteAre you an alumnus of USNA?
Regardless of whatever "fabrication" may have influenced them, this week's FbF sure does "objectively" show where a solid moral foundation will sustain you in the worst of circumstances....
ReplyDeleteDoes that make me a (gasp!) pragmatist?
ReplyDeleteURR,
ReplyDeleteYes I am. Class of 1991. I did not graduate but was at Annapolis for 2.5 years. Anyone who was at Annapolis more than two years is considered an Alumni, and yes I am asked every year to contribute money and support to the Alumni foundation. My friends from Annapolis call me Rack.
So the question is are the Alumni going to listen to the Supe or Midshipman 2/C Rack?
Like I said, I called the BS flag on the "idealization" of the JPJ letters. Will I be the lone voice or will others follow my lead?
Care to tell everyone why you were there only 2.5 years, Rick?
ReplyDeleteByron,
ReplyDeletedo you want the long or short answer?
This is getting off topic. The point is the Supe has a tough job ahead of him and as an Alumni who listened to his speech I am raising my concerns which are
1) the Supe's stated belief in pragmatism.
2) the so called "idealization" of the Buell Fabrication.
Byron, I raised similiar concerns back in 1987-1990 did anyone listen?
Holy Hand Grenades, Rick.
ReplyDeleteI too was class of 1991, and I was there for 2.5 years. Did you get the boot before or after the epic Army game of 1989?
Rick et al. Stop. For the sake of all that is Holy - stop.
ReplyDeleteRick, once again - please do not bring your tom-tom to the poerty reading. I know this subject is of great importance to you. Please, it is free - start your own blog to discuss it. Wordpress or Blogspot; they're both free and exceptionally easy.
You are more than welcome here to join in germane discussions - but stop this maddness of fabrications and Ryandian wanderings - you're making the locals twitchy. You seem like a reasonably nice guy - on the edge of a standard deviation, but a nice guy. Don't make me ban you. I beg you. I am in such a charitable mood as of late - don't strip by buzz.
Rick, just the answer that tells everyone why you were there only 2.5 years.
ReplyDeleteCdr.
ReplyDeleteI'm moving on, not much left to say about the Supe's speech, time will tell us how he does and I know that you will let us know.
For what it is worth, I really have more important things to occupy my time than the latest scandals at Canoe U. Thing is that I always have Alumni asking for my thoughts based on my experience at Annapolis.
Just thought I would share my thoughts with individuals that are far more interested in the haps at USNA than I am.
To answer Byron's question, I thought that if I hit the Rack for twelve hours a day than I would only be at Annapolis for 2 years while my classmates would be there for 4. 2.5 yrs. wuz close enough.
Rack Hard, Rack Often :)
After the game, I did however attend all 4 Army/Navy football games and marched on to all 4 of them. 8-)
ReplyDeleteTwelve hours in the rack every day? You'd make a GREAT submariner! *THUMBS UP* :-D
ReplyDeleteRick D,
ReplyDeleteWhy would you care after almost 20 years? You left, move on.
Redeye80,
ReplyDeleteI have moved on. I am still an Alumni and I still see a dozen of my classmates on a yearly basis. The scandals as USNA are always a topic of discussion and the fact of the matter is that I know more about the history of Annapolis than most grads, so I speak up when I think it is appropriate.
Are you an alumnus?
ReplyDeleteThen, by definition, you are not an alumnus
ReplyDeleteMaryR,
ReplyDeleteyes I am. Because of the small size of the classes and the nature of the business, Annapolis(not sure about the other Academies) considers anyone who attended more than 2 years an Alumni. In fact, some of the largest fans and supporters of USNA are individuals who did not graduate.
Who is next ??? :)
See here for grad/non grad Alumni status.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.usna.com/Page.aspx?pid=993
Rick. I am sorry. You did not graduate. Get over it. You are not an alumnus.
ReplyDeleteI have tolerated you cynical bullshit clouded in reason long enough. get over it and move on. I am tired of babysitting you on the USNI blog.
Start your own blog and see all those who resonate and participate with your discourse. I welcome this launch - and is eventual success.
Sal...sorry, you said to stop. I will now.
Ricky,
ReplyDeleteI have been sitting here for about an hour to figure you out from your postings. The most that I can tell is that you either DOR'd or was asked to leave by the leadership it doesn't matter. I am just reminded of about a dozen plus folks I have had to pick up the slack for cause they decided the Navy wasn't all Top Gun/JAG/NCIS/Hollywood glamour. This is usually right before we leave on a deployment, they pull some stunt. All sorts of issues seem to come up, like mental issues or some phantom disability. I have done picked up enough slack for the little kids who can't let go of their mommies apron strings, that it only causes me to boil a little bit now a days, instead of going full on supernova. As to whether or not your an alumni or not, that all depends on what the membership by-laws say for the Canoe U Alumni Association. Of which aren't readily available from the link you provided. I know there are a few alumni associations I belong to, that make non-grads associate members if they didn't graduate from the school or were members of the crews. Being an associate means they can show up for the meetings, get the slick newsletter, but can't hold any office in the leadership.
As to your hatred of John Paul Jones and the fact that some historian made up quotes to help sell his book. Get over it! All sorts of authors in the last few years have been making up quotes. Everything from Bob Woodward, Kitty Kelly, and even the great Stephen Ambrose have all been guilty of it. On top of that plenty of other famous books have recently been torn apart by further historians. Such as Rev. Mitsuo Fuciada by Jon Parshall & Tony Tully. There are also plenty of fictional quotes associated with people going around in the world that it can be hard from time to time to separate the fact from the fiction. Even worst is the fact that a number of quotes have been mis-accredited.
My Dad went to "Canoe U" as he used call it. Graduated over 50 years ago. My sisters and I used to ask Dad what Degree he obtained there or what he majored in ? The answer was just, "Naval Science". Dad studied the exact same courses as every midshipman there. No electives. No choices. He knew Navigation even better than Salty Gator. He knew and applied all the Leadership and Management courses he took. Dad knew fuels, steam, diesels, pneumatics, hydraulics, electricity, electronics (there is a big difference), communications, weather, drafting, ship formations and flotilla ops, etc. Dad ended up commanding a destroyer, then an amphib, then a deep draft command ( an ammo ship ). Plus he was CO of EPDOLANT, Norfolk (which is now in Tennessee).
ReplyDeleteBesides being an unsurpassed Navigator and Mariner (there is a difference), my Dad was first and foremost a true LEADER. He didn't just play the part and know the principles from textbook. Dad was really a Leader, the kind that are rarely encountered. Dad said he "learned" about 50 percent of his leadership at the Naval Academy. The other half came from High School sports teams (captain and co-captain of different teams) as well as various Student Body Class Offices he ran for and won.
So, we all hope that lurking in the midst of the 3000 + midshipmen, there are a few future Captains and even Admirals who will be capable of true LEADERSHIP. Even a handful are worth the cost of USNA.
Born Leaders ?? If leaders are just born that way, and not developed by Army Navy Air Force Academy s, then we need to get this word out to the Pentagon right away.
ReplyDeleteThe DoD Generals and Admirals need to get this word pronto. So that they can close the Naval Academy, Air Force Coast Guard, Army Academies immediately.
Think of all the Defense money that can be saved if Sargeants, Warrant Officers, Chiefs, Junior Officers, Petty Officers can stop attending "Leadership" Schools and courses throughout their military careers ! ?
So, if Leaders are not developed, nutured, carefully schooled, etc. but are rather, just "born" as leaders, then how, where do we find such rare and invaluable people ? And then how do we pursuade them to join the Army-Navy Marine Corps Coast Guard Air Force ??
Let's rush into this brilliant idea about closing down all the Service Academies. The quicker the better, right ?
Leaders are not born, they are grown, raised up, nurtured, and pruned.
ReplyDeleteUSNA has a fine tradition, beautiful facilities, lots of expertise in the subjects taught...and appears to be shot through with dead wood.
NROTC and OCS/AOCS produce fine officers, indistinguishable after about 3 years in the fleet from the USNA product, in terms of getting the job done. These programs have their problems, but they are decentralized. The cycle of decline, reform, pursuit of excellence, resting upon laurels and repeat..., is distributed, both geographically and across time. Therefore they are more stable. Since individual outputs are small, shortcomings are less likely to threaten the mission at any given point.
Not so the Academy. It is huge, influential and centralized. It can fail badly at the worst possible time, although it never has. Yet.
Due to events and organizations abroad, we are entering a new age of prolonged conflict, which will test the nation and the Navy. Denial and dismissal of the notion due to a desire to pursue one or another politico-economic ideologically based agenda is worse than folly.
History is manifestly not over. Not hardly, not now or in our grandchildren's lifetimes.
Dealing with with national recognition and readiness for this tragic future are also outside the scope of the day to day Navy, although not the influence its senior leadership.
ALL officer training programs must apply themselves to instruction and inspiration of the finest fighting sea officers they have ever produced and the ruthless pruning of the substandard faculty, leadership and midshipman/cadets.
The aspirants who complete and commission, regardless of source, will hold the destiny of the republic, possibly its survival, in their hands. Just the way it is.
Hard times coming. Get as ready as you can.
"There are Alumni that know better."
ReplyDeleteAlumni-Bumni. The Navy and its officer accession programs, and the state of the officer (and no less important, Petty Officer) corps is the legitimate concern of every citizen of the Republic.
If they intend to keep it (the Republic, that is).
Not to mention the fact that the USNA is not the be all and end all of the USN. This is an open forum. "Shipmate" subscription holders welcome, but we ruffians who aren't will cut 'em no slack. Nor anybody else, grumpy old men included.
Cheers.
"Grumpy old men"...yeah, what he said ;)
ReplyDeleteMaryR,
ReplyDeleteAre you here to tell me that the 2003 Register of Alumni, The United States Naval Academy Alumni Association, Inc. is a fabrication.
P. 694 Class of 1991 Non-Graduates
Wilmes, Richard D.;Missouri;[Redacted]
Junior, I would argue there are other ways, perhaps more cost efficient and effective, to grow the great warrior leaders such as your father. By the way I loved your post. I work with men like him...real naval engineer warriors who are just as comfortable talking DF-21 as they are the fundamentals of steam. Folks who were on Tripoli when she took the mine hit and put her back together, then sailed her home. That kind of naval officer. If only a handful of naval officers turn out as your father, then why aren't we doing something different? Wouldn't your father have turned out the same way at NROTC? Also, the curriculum has changed...he may not get that same intensive naval engineering background. But if we turn it into a finishing school, he might.
ReplyDelete