Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Revenge of the WUBAs

In the 19JUL10 edition of NavyTimes ... also by Lance M. Bacon - there is an article that speaks to the great fun-sponges out there.

You know the type. Full of that toxic stew of bitterness, insecurity, and self-loathing.

Usually divorced once or twice, or never married - few if any children. Never quite look comfortable in ill-fitting khakis bought 15 lbs ago, and make no effort to go to a tailor to get a proper set made.

There is only one thing they hate more than the fact they were born XX - the fact that some XX are more interesting to XY than they are - some XX like looking that way ... and they hate to be reminded of it.

It isn't available on-line, but I'll quote a few choice bits for you.
(RADM) Halloway said his office has studies that clearly show sexual assault are more likely to occur in an environment that allows degradation of any race or gender, whether through jokes, fraternization or harassment.

"We want to stop that, and make that connection clear," he said.
...
The issue was a hot topic among the nearly 1,000 attendees of the 23rd annual Women's Leadership Symposium, held June 2-3 in Washington. Specifically, many Navy women voiced their displeasure with base visits by and photo ops with "cheerleaders and Hooters girls" - an activity one commander called "insulting to professional sailors."
OK - ask those 18-25 year old Sailors and Marines who have spent most of their prime years in IRQ and AFG - and who almost never get a chance to see a woman actually looking like a woman, and enjoying something - like "cheerleaders and Hooters girls" - that their countrymen at college and professional sports events see in person or on TV. (for the record - my house is full of females who actually have no problem with cheerleaders (are actually friends of cheerleaders at school) and we go as a family to Hooters)

Where is the "cultural sensitivity" and "celebration of diversity" for those young men AND women who enjoy professional cheerleaders and good coastal Southern food?

What is the deployment rate for the uniformed members at that symposium? Do they like having the same opinion as Iranian Mullahs?

RADM Halloway - I guess it is easier to listen to your Diversity and "Woman in the Service" advisors than to do anything as hard as going after the 18-yr old being impregnated in fan rooms by 30-yr old E-6s - or prostitution on ship.

Cheap grace from the grievance industry is professionally rewarding though. While you are basking in it though - just don't ask for feedback from those young Sailors and Marines who are giving up their youth to serve you, and might want to feel like an American for a few minutes before putting their lives back on the line.

Oh, and I owe Lance a beer for creative writing. In the first paragraph we read,
Advancement exams will include questions about sexual assault, bystanders will be held accountable for not stopping an assault and base visits by scantily clad cheerleaders will be more closely scrutinized.
Ummmm, yep. By 85% of the Fleet, and 97% of those Sailors and Marines under 25 who just ask for a few minutes of the USA they are defending.
If you think that is bad - well put your face in your palm now.

One of our friends here on the blog had his stopwatch going the other day when RDML Aucoin visited. 1/3 of his time was on sexual harrassment.

In a different chain - but from the same well - this jewel came from to the warfighter and then to me.
UNCLASSIFIED//
PERSONAL FOR COMMODORES, CAPTAINS, COMMAND MASTER CHIEFS, WARDROOMS AND CPO MESSES, INFO VADMS WILLIAMS, CURTIS, DALY, RADM BUSS, MR. MURPHY, RDMLS HOWARD, DRISCOLL, DAVIDSON, AND CAPT HESTERMAN FROM THOMAS SUBJ/PREVENTION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT// RMKS/1. YESTERDAY, DURING A BRIEF VISIT TO ONE OF OUR SHIPS, I OBSERVED BEHAVIOR AND FAILURE OF LEADERSHIP THAT ANGERED, SHOCKED AND DEEPLY ALARMED ME. IN SEVERAL OFFICE AND CONTROL SPACES, I OBSERVED PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED, SEXUALLY EXPLICIT, AND GENDER-DEMEANING MATERIALS.
THESE MATERIALS WERE INTENTIONAL AND UNEQUIVOCAL STATEMENTS OF GENDER DISCRIMINATION AND INTIMIDATION. THEY WERE FOUND IN PLAIN VIEW, IN COMMON SPACES FREQUENTED BY THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF LEADERSHIP. MOST DISTURBING WAS THE ACTIVE PARTICIPATION BY KHAKI LEADERSHIP IN PERPETUATING THIS UNACCEPTABLE AND INCREDIBLY UNPROFESSIONAL BEHAVIOR.
2. COMMODORES, CAPTAINS, MASTER CHIEFS, WARDROOMS, CPO MESSES: WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH SEXUAL ASSAULT AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN OUR NAVY THAT "BUSINESS AS USUAL" WILL NOT SOLVE. YOUR TACIT APPROVAL THROUGH INACTION IS UNACCEPTABLE. IF YOU BELIEVE ZERO TOLERANCE IMPLIES THAT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ACT BEGINS ONLY AFTER AN INCIDENT OCCURS, THEN YOU'VE ENTIRELY MISSED THE MARK. IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST PULL DOWN THE BLATANT SYMBOLS OF THE BEHAVIOR DESCRIBED ABOVE: I NEED YOU TO DEMAND AND LEAD--IN EVERY WORKCENTER IN EVERY SHIP, IN EVERY CODE IN EVERY OFFICE--A PROACTIVE CAMPAIGN TO EXTIRPATE THOSE WHO JUST DON'T, OR WON'T, GET IT.
3. THE BEHAVIOR DESCRIBED ABOVE CREATES A PERVASIVE, CORROSIVE CLIMATE THAT IS INCREDIBLY DELETERIOUS TO MORALE, UNIT COHESION, AND READINESS. IT IS THE ANTITHESIS OF OUR NAVY ETHOS AND SAILOR'S CREED.
4. OUR NAVY IS BETTER THAN THAT. YOUR SHIP IS BETTER THAN THAT.
YOUR SAILORS...EVERY ONE OF THEM...DESERVE BETTER THAN THAT.
EMBRACE YOUR ROLE AS A LEADER AND NAVAL PROFESSIONAL; SET, ENFORCE AND LIVE TO THE HIGH STANDARDS OF PROFESSIONALISM AND EXEMPLARY BEHAVIOR OUR SERVICE DEMANDS AND WHICH YOU, BY YOUR OATH, SWORE TO UPHOLD.
5. I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU, BY E-MAIL, MESSAGE, OR IN PERSON, ON THIS SUBJECT. TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING ABOUT THIS IN YOUR SHIP.//
Are we talking about pr0n and "training videos" going on in the background?

No. After this message - a copy of this was removed from the Chiefs Mess of a USN ship.



Note the word in bold red above and make sure you read it in context.

Words have meaning and help you understand the mindset of the person who uses them.
ex·tir·pate   [ek-ster-peyt, ik-stur-peyt]
–verb (used with object), -pat·ed, -pat·ing.
1. to remove or destroy totally; do away with; exterminate.
2. to pull up by or as if by the roots; root up: to
extirpate an unwanted hair.
I can't make this stuff up - and I cannot really ping on Aucoin or other junior Flag Officers ... no ... I can't. This Orwelian environment is one of CNO Roughead's big pushes this year. What else can they do?

I guess shipbuilding, maintenance, readiness, and weaponeering is too hard and not as fun; I guess. I am sure they worked so hard to make Flag so they could send out P4s like this; I guess. It is great to be a Flag Officer in a time of war; I guess.

124 comments:

Anon said...

Seriously?  It's unprofessional to display a recruiting poster--part of our Navy's history and heritage?  

RDML must have received word from on high that he needed to find something sexually demeaning--so he did.  At least, he found something to justify his visit.

Jerry Hendrix said...

Wow, why does this not surprise me.  This was the same RDML who "supported" Navy unmanned aviation assets by gutting their numbers.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Lacking in all forms of leadership.  And yes, I can blame junior flag officers.  These people get their marching orders from Roughead, true, but they are ADMIRALS.  The whole lot of them, and the masculine harpies at the "women's symposium" (and DACOWITS, for that matter), need to walk a few foot patrols in Helmand today or Anbar in 2004-7. 

We want to "extirpate" those who do not willingly submit to suppressing any and all instinct (the interest of young men in young women), but we can't possibly "extirpate" the Islamic terrorist enemy, or the hemmorhage of Navy shipbuilding money in LCS or DDG-1000. 

And, if on that foot patrol, a couple of IEDs were to take out the lot, it would be far less loss to the Navy and the country than the loss of a squad of young soldiers or Marines and any IA sailors who might be with them.

SNAnonymous said...

Oh, wow.  I really wonder if any of the flag officers ever bring up at the yearly flag conferences the fact that some of these policies are absolutely ridiculous, or are they too scared to be forced out due to being "intolerant towards minorities."

On a side note, the title of this post reminds me of the decree when I was back at USNA by a certain Supe that decreed that anyone that used the term WUBA was guilty of sexual harassment.  

sid said...

Glad we have folks like this in the USN leadership....

Making things right.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

On top of that, think of all the admin time and precious NMCI/Command Email resources wasted on that missive...never mind, transmitting that kind of dreck is the reason for Command Email's existence, right?

Derek said...

Let's ask the Diversity Admirals this: when DADT is removed and gay sailors put up posters of scantily clad men, will the removal of those posters be seen as discrimination against a lifestyle?

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Oh, how truly good.

Yes, cheerleaders are the true enemy of all women in the Navy, their very presence on base will drive up the on board rapes and sexual harassment by inflaming male sailors. Who are largely rapists and sexual harassers, anyway.

Note bene to all male sailors. Do not approach or speak to a female sailor except i n the line of duty and with a witness present. Constantly take proactive steps to avoid being vulnerable to false and baseless accusation of sexual misconduct. When ever possible avoid social contact with female sailors. Never complement a female sailor on her appearance. Remember, there is no safe place.

Ever more stringent measures will be taken until morale improves, as it must when all problems between men and women are eliminated. Extirpated. Hunted down and eradicated.

Just what the Navy needs. Especially now.

Mutual antipathy and paranoia among the ranks makes for a happy and battle ready crew.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

Well, at least maybe the posters of scantily-clad women could go back up.  Two sides to every coin, gotta support the other team, etc.....

hbp said...

Just to show you how out of touch I am; when I was at USNA, WUBA meant Working Uniform Blue Alpha, i.e. navy blue long sleeve shirt, navy blue trousers, and tie.  But that was BW, when White Works X-Ray was also occaisionally worn.

sid said...

Seems this sexual harrasment push is coming from FFC....

Of course, we've known this was going to be a problem since 1976.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

<span><span><span>I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU, BY E-MAIL, MESSAGE, OR IN PERSON, ON THIS SUBJECT. TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING ABOUT THIS IN YOUR SHIP.</span></span> 
 
Somehow I think "Nothing.  I'm concentrating on maintenance, readiness, and combat training." would not be an acceptable response.</span>

MarkT said...

A great leader, and now retired FFG CO once opined openly that "tradition is not a Navy Core Value"... Kind of dates me, however that has always been the issue - we remove tradition as a form of convenience.  I'd like to remove all the people who really do the work from the service and watch all the diversity pukes stand the watch for a while - never happen though, it is for to weep. *sigh* the blood of the slaves grease the wheels of the ship

Stingray said...

I am trying to imagine what an F-14 pilot could have
done in the last 30 years to be awarded a Silver Star.
Any copies of the citation available?

sid said...

Was wondering eactly the same thing...

gorilspi said...

Enhanced focus on sexual assault/harrassment could also be linked to "Force Shaping" needs as we have way too much end strength, and CNP is beginning to panic.  Two birds with one stone?

Navy Times:  <span>At Risk: Thousands Of Poor Performers</span>


5 New Ways For COs To Trim The Deadwood
(NAVY TIMES 12 JUL 10) ... Mark Faram

If you're a proven poor performer, the Navy is putting you on notice <span><span>—</span></span><span> your commanding officer has five new ways to send you home.

Effective immediately, at least 3,000 petty officers are at risk of being discharged because of tough new performance rules issued by Navy Personnel Command, which make it easier for COs to cut non-hackers.
Sailors at risk include those with low performance mark averages and promotion recommendations, those who have lost their Navy enlisted classifications, those who fail to cross-train during a rating conversion and those who lose the right to carry and operate firearms.
"
</span>
<span>The rules were announced in NAVADMIN 210/10, released June 25.

Exactly how many could be affected by the new rules isn't known, Falardeau said, because Millington doesn't maintain performance records of E-4s and below. But the command took a "snapshot" of E-5s and E-6s who had up to 16 years of service and at least one year in their grade and found 2,941 sailors violated one or more of the five new rules.
These new rules follow last year's announcement that skippers must begin discharging sailors with clear conduct violations, such as sexual harassment, drug abuse, alcohol-rehabilitation failures or sexual misconduct,. For whatever reason, COs had not been processing those sailors out. These new rules significantly raise the bar for who can stay.

More is available, but cannot fit it.
</span>

xformed said...

Nope...it's a "protected class,"  who must be allowed to overly demonstrate, to compensate for the many years society mandated that they remain closeted.

It's all the rage now, haven't you heard?

Anonymous said...

In the early 1980's, USNA slang for WUBA was 'Women in Uniform with Broad A$$' I remember the term as generally accurate.

Spade said...

Seriously, that poster was the problem? You're not kidding about that?

cdrsalamander said...

No.  Not kidding.

Kristen said...

I was just about to ask what WUBA means.  I have a feeling your definition is exactly what the CDR meant.  :)

DeltaBravo said...

Makes for a catchy new motto:  "You rate what you extirpate." 

(Thinks about it...)  Naaah.

cdrsalamander said...

There was a different term used from the late '80s on .... LBG can brief you.

bullnav said...

I think it had to be Libya in the '80s. 

John said...

This is just the latest distraction and incremental degradation in readiness and warrior attitude stemming from the inital stumble down the slippery slope of political correctness.

Girls at sea.  It was a bad idea then, and getting worse.

There are some exceptions, of course, and some women enlisted/chiefs/officers whom can do the job and contribute to readiness.  However, the the chronically offended class of underperformers (of whatever gender/preference/color) have successfully demanded that equality of opportunity be replaced by dumbing down and lowering standards to accommodate those who cannot or will not perform at the necessary level.

They are on a jihad to extirpate our Navy as a warfighting force, and turn it into a "global force for good" under a banner of rainbows and unicorns.  And "manned" by eunuchs.

Kristen said...

Pathetic.  I was reading along thinking, well, it really is unprofessional and inappropriate to have centerfolds displayed...and that poster is the problem?  It's adorable and I bet most Navy women think so too.

How can anyone be humorless to try to deny morale-boosting visits by pretty girls?  I always appreciate ti so much when I read about celebrities making the effort to visit the troops, here or overseas.  It's just sad, and the saddest part is that the Navy offers an official forum for all that pettiness to spill out. 

The "more closely scrutinized" part made me laugh out loud.  I wonder if it was deliberate.

Kristen said...

"Chronically offended" is a great description.

Spade said...

Hope he never vists the WNY. He'll stroke out.

Curtis said...

Precious NMCI?  Now I have heard everything.  My wife bought that poster when we found it in the gift shop at the Smithsonian about 8 years ago.  She also bought the other one.  Both still hanging.

Michael said...

On my visits to USN vessels I have always found them fairly well equipped (if uncivilisedly dry...) compared to The Royal Navy. However, this clearly shows that at least in some parts of the USN there appears to be a clear shortage of vital materials. This shortage may be rectified quite easily by the complainant proceeding at best speed and with all despatch to the nearest Walmart, carrying out search operations and...
GET A LIFE!
Upon completion of operations, return to port for reassingment.

TTFN
To the Worlds Largest Navy - From a retired member of the Worlds Best!

Splice the Mainbrace!

sid said...

None of those engagements ever deserved a Silver Star...

(from someone who has spent quality time below 32'30"N)

fdnfer said...

Ahh Joey...  CAPT Aucoin was my CAG in Japan for CVW-5.  He was a F-14 RIO and I guess he got a silver star for what his squadron did (VF-41) in Bosnia for Allied Force/Forge.  He certainly did not get one from his time in Japan - not respected or liked by the airwing or the Admiral.  My squadron actually sang a song at Foc'sle follies celebrating his departure: "CAG's leavin, on a jet plane, so glad he won't be back again..."  We weren't allowed to make fun of his hair plugs.
  We had all hoped he would have left the Navy after making our lives painful but he has been lurking the corridors of the Pentagon since '04.  He had weak charisma and was not in touch with the sailors or the officers of the airwing.  It seems that he has not grown at all since then, maybe he even regressed?  He defines what is wrong with the Big Navy and it makes me sad that he is still making things worse around the Navy.  Maybe his job will be cut with all the POM 12 cuts being thrown around - we can all hope.

YNSN said...

You know this type of thing is a two way street.  But, it's never talked about.  Ever been the ONLY guy in a workspace?  I have, more than once.  Get three females together and work with them for 8 weeks.  At the 8 week mark, they will start talking little different from how male Sailors talk.  They too will say things that you can't repsond to, because you could very well have the book thrown at you for talking in such a way.

John said...

Looks like RADM(L) Aucoin has been near the scene of disasters for quite a while:
"Program Planning and Development Branch (N801), OPNAV staff; Programming and Budget Division (PBAD), J8, Joint Staff; Aviation Strike Warfare Requirements (N880); head, Program Planning and Development Branch (N801); head, Maritime, Unmanned Aircraft Systems, Aviation Training Plans and Programs (N882) and deputy director, Air Warfare (N88B)"

And he got a degree from Hahvaad, that noted bastion of warrior spirit immune to PC nonsense.

He's just another manager who is part of the problem in our leaderless Navy today.

He also sounds like a Sestek wannabe.

Redeye80 said...

I understand the Navy has many issues to deal with and their priority may be a subject of discussion.  But I guess I have a hard time understanding why it is a bad thing to try reduce sexual assualt and sexual harassment.  I am sure many agree it is an issue but apparently the solutions are the debate. It's been almost a generation in the Navy since Tailhook '91 and this is still an issue?

I guess the description of the symposium attendees or name of post is could be considered part of the problem.  It may be the truth but is attacking a class of people helping or hurting the cause?  I am trying to figure out what part of the Navy core values this falls under.

Who's fault is it to let the fan room activies occur?  We can do the right thing or not. To paraphase John Boyd, "You can have a career or you can do something".  Commanders have to command.

It's your Navy, fix it!

BTW, when I left USNA, it was Women Used By All.  I believe they changed the name of the uniform and it was a conduct offence to udder the word WUBA.

YNSN said...

And you know, having a Chief's mess take down something that is as iconic of our heritage as that poster calls into question the Creed I have committed to memory and the heritage I am told to emulate and love.  I take so much offense to that action.  There is no excuse for it, and it should never have been allowed to happen.  Their actions bring shame upon us all who serve and who have served. 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

YNSN said...

One last thing though.  The Ship's CO had the poster removed?  It was not mandated by the Personal for message sent out? 

cdrsalamander said...

Correct ... but usually P4s are followed or preceeded by phone calls that provide more detail and D&G.

C-dore 14 said...

There is so much that upsets me about this P4 that it's hard to narrow it down.  Let's just say that back in the day most Flag Officers trusted their subordinate COs and Commanders enough to address a "Personal" to them and expect the guidance to get carried out.  Moreover they did it without sending self-serving info copies to everyone in the chain above them.

But what's most disturbing is, assuming that the P4's author is RADM Dave Thomas COMNAVSURFLANT, that it comes from the officer who is primarily responsible for the training and material readiness of all the Atlantic Fleet's surface ships.  At a time when the Navy is trying to resolve long standing material issues, am I the only one who feels that this guy's priorities are screwed up? 

 Undercut the chain of command...check, divert the leadership's attention from meaningful priorities...check.  Nimitz and King are probably rolling over in their graves.

C-dore 14 said...

He'd better not come up to my neck of the woods.  I saw a framed copy of the original poster on sale at a local antique store last week.

LBG said...

Women Used By All was one of the ones that comes to mind.

Anon said...

A few items with this post I would like to comment about:

First - you're title and introduction are quite unprofessional.  I find WUBA and the XX/XY references unacceptable, and if you really want to make a positive statement in how to fix the problem you should lead in with a title and paragraph that does not alienate some of your audience.

Second - It is proven that a hostile work environment, especially one that is sexually charged, will have more sexual assaults.  More sexual assaults reduces readiness through legal and medical issues that arise, the negative interactions between the Sailors that feel compeled to take one side or the other, the probable loss/transfer of crew members, etc. (I could carry that string on for a while)  Over 80% of sexual assaults are unreported.  And last year NCIS was only able to take about 2% of unrestricted cases to court for various reasons (medical exam, victim willing to testify, etc.).  And if you think all victims (and there is an increase in male victimes) are lying you would be wrong - that number is less than 5%  Read that again - over 95% of the time the victim is telling the truth.  It's the media, the friends, and even the male ego, that says,  "The victim is lying" instead of looking at the evidence.  If you don't think we have a problem with sexual assaults you need to pull your head out.

Third - We shouldn't have women running around in short skirts and skimpy t-shirts showing their stuff off then you need fix the problem.  We are supposed to be professionals working in a professional environment.   Just because there is a minority that dislikes something does not mean we can steamroll them with the majorities ideals.

Fourth - I agree we have a problem with pregnancy and Sailors, and prostitution issues on ships.  Comes back to command climate and engaged leadership.  I'm not talking about that intrusive leadership crap - that's a whole different issue.

Fifth - not sure why that P4 is written so strongly, but it definitely generates negative action and response.  Not sure if the author was trying to flex his thesaurus abilities or what.  And if that's the sign that caused the outrage I have to wonder what happened onboard.  The only twist I can think that was the only WWII poster in the Mess and when the Admiral commented on it he received a sexually charged answer from the CPOs.  If that was the case then the anger might be justified.  If the poster was one of many WWII posters in the Mess then I think the Admiral and the message are out of bounds.

I'm a little disappointed in your post.  I've seen better and expect more.

Curtis said...

Good God!,

I put my lesbian 4 and the cute blue eyed 18 year old blond in the same room at camp snoopy and told the 4 to keep her under control. In two weeks every single sea bee fucked her.  That was either her rating or skill or nature.  Detrimental on a monster scale to command and leadership?  Hell yeah.  Finding out after the fact that female CB officers would give blowjobs to the best hatch crews..Not my kind of leadership.  Not my kind of follower.

Casey Tompkins said...

Sorry for the repetition, but I want this clear in my mind; that was the only poster that caused a problem?

What's next, claiming racial profiling because Uncle Sam is white?

Anonymous said...

Couple of things, anon is right, you start off insulting your very negative stereotype of women -- you may be pro-woman because of wife and daughters, but you are clearly very anti-Navy woman.  Note the offended person was MALE.  HE went stupidly high and right.  Now there may have been inappropriate things up up (poster not offensive) elsewhere.  And both sexes can be equally culpable, but I suspect you see fewer chippendale's posters up than playboy (seven ships, I think I can say that with some authority). I have objected to maybe one poster or calendar, a naked woman being very come hither shall we saw with a view that left no doubt she was female and my chief had it down before I said anything.   Sorry, but sometimes the line is crossed.   The P4 is dumb, heart may be in the right place but very poorly handled.  Still don't get why it warrants your opening rant. 

I was at the Women's Symposium and did not hear a single complaint about posters in spaces or harassment -- the presentation on sexual assualt was listened to, and questions asked from various SARCs and SAVIs.  I personally was irked by the constant statement from a MALE reservist admiral that "we have to change the culture that says sexual assualt is okay"  as I don't remember ever being anyplace that thought that.  And it is pretty insulting to all our Sailors to assume they believe that. 

Curtis said...

typical LANTFLT kind of guy.  Imagine the distance between a LANTFLT pussy and the war fighters in PACFLT.

Sailingunc said...

Hey Sal!   Can't you control your posters???  This is just the kind of crap that offends any civil human of either gender...and as monitor, you are guilty of not keeping your litter box clean!  Get a grip!

gorilspi said...

Is it the content of the comment itself or the language used to express the comment that you disapprove of?  Or both?  I can understand the language issue, i guess...

gorilspi said...

What if the sailors printed off pictures of female crewmembers scantily dressed from their (the fame sailors') own Facebook accounts and put those on the bulkheads?  I would assume that a few could be found...this is just the digital version of the same thing...except the "old man" doesn't see it...and these females are objectifying THEMSELVES.

Byron said...

Give Sal a chance to see this. I expect he won't approve either. Matter of fact, I'm certian of it. I know I don't. Curtis, you could have made your point and not got down in the bottom of the gutter. You didn't agree with the comment above? Fine, there's a right way to object and a wrong way, and in my book you went way over on the wrong side.

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, Having served in both PAC and LANT I've seen little meaningful difference between the two forces.  PACFLT guys tend to be more self-reliant while LANFLT guys paid more attention to topside appearance and were better at ASW but that was about the extent of it.

Andrewdb said...

As to your Second bullet - I am not aware of the evidence (as opposed to "conventional wisdom" without evidence) that supports hostile work environment automatically leads to sexual assaults.  Can you point me to any links that show that?

Can you also point me to the evidence that shows the 80% unreported assults number?  I have heard similar numbers, but never have understood how one can prove the missing peice(s).

Thanks in advance.

Andrewdb said...

You mean something like this:  http://www.nyfirestore.com/calendars.html ?

Actually I think Grampa BLueewater is right - a gay officer would be wise to never close the door and always have a witness when doing any sort of counseling of a junior.

Andrewdb said...

I heard a one-star last year comment that being a 1-star is like being a 1LT (he works in DC), just in a different league.

DG said...

<span>{<span>(RADM) Halloway said his office has studies that clearly show sexual assault are more likely to occur in an environment that allows degradation of any race or gender, whether through jokes, fraternization or harassment.}</span>  
 
I'd like to see the science. I'm guessing it wouldn't stand up to real peer review. The problem is that joke <> harassment. Aside from that, there are issues of correlation and causation. While an environment where sexual assault exists may have other things going on too, that doesn't mean the opposite is true.  
 
I will say this: commands can stamp out frarernization and that there is a problem of more senior folks screwing more junior folks. And that activity, even if 100% consensual, screws up unit cohesion, because of the massive perception of playing favorites.  
 
However, that has nothing to do with real sexual assault. I'm not sure how to stop actual sexual assault, but education and stern lectures won't do it. The kind of sicko who rapes a woman is going to do it whether we tell him to or not. That being said, people who cover up actual sexual assaults need to be court martialed. I just don't think that sort of cover-up happens these days, unless it involves the sort of really senior officers who can seemingly get away with anything.</span>

DG said...

BTW, every female sailor I've ever known has loved both this poster, and the other one in the set, which reads,  "if I were a man, I'd join the Navy", or something similar. Half the female sailors I know (and seemingly all the female officers) OWN one or both of these.

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, One question...if you were in a position of authority, what action did you take in these cases?

San Diego Sailor said...

Disgusting.  Not the poster, but the Thought Police who want to control every reflex and turn sailors into robots.  They are making the Navy a branch of Scientology.  We can control every thought.  Any woman I ever knew in the Navy that was half worth a crap would not care in the slightest about this poster and would be insulted by someone bringing it to her attention and implying she should care.  Real women in the Navy worked hard to ensure that they were seen as shipmates and top-notch performers, not someone that needed to be pandered to or pampered.  If they had enough of salty talk or if something was over the top they would tell the offender, give them a chance to reconsider, and then work to repair the relationship.  In most cases the men realized they had been wrong and genuinely aplogized.

I often told sailors that the test of sexual harassment in the Navy was the Mother/Wife/Sister/Daughter test.  If it was not something that you would not want your M/W/S/D subjected to than you were on shaky ground and likely headed for trouble.  Unfortunately the thought police have carried some very simple principles out to the nth degree, where they do nothing but reinforce a view of them as being part of an out of control political correctness cult.

People always lose perspective on how and why we have women in the Navy.  It is about the need for equality in ROTC scholarships and USNA appointments.  If you are forced to have 1/2 your mids as women what do you do with them once they graduate?  And if you have that many female officers can you really have them lead an all-male crew?  I think if you really step back from the political correctness paradigm you will see this is how we got into this predicament in the first place.

ASWOJoe said...

<span>Perhaps if the Admiral cared about sexual assault he could spare a few minutes to call RADM Wrenn, CNFJ and ask him what the logic behind giving the former LCDR Anthony Velasquez M.D. a lousy week in prison for committing serial sexual assaults in our own hospitals.  Seems to me that before we go creating problems "exterpating" sexual harrassment, and Bahrain 10's going back to being San Diego 3's someone might want to ask why we let the real predators go when we catch them.</span>

DeltaBravo said...

So... (thinking so hard it makes my lil' female head hurt...) does this mean the good ol' Admirable would have extirpated the guys who won WWII

xformed said...

HERETIC!  Yo!  Get that stake ready!

xformed said...

So, there I was, in the IO, aboard CV-60 (forced to embark by PACFLT stupid rules about where the ASWC was), working like 20-22 hour days and I got elected to be the Staff Rep to have evening chow in the RDML (then) Jeremiah's mess in the company of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders.  Yep, in their get ups.  Got "parked right next to one, I did.  Wonderful lady, but...dude...we were all the way out in the IO and had been for several months.

Not as much fun as you'd think it would be, it being...oh, well, you guess how "difficult" it became to sit there and make small talk for about an hour...all the way out in the middle of the IO...did I say for several months already?

Was that a bad thing by today's standards, when higher sent us a "morale booster?"

xformed said...

You get medals like that for downing a hopelessy outclassed pilot in a hopelessly outclassed airframe?  That's not what one would consider "sporting."

xformed said...

in 3,2,1....

Don't give them ideas!

xformed said...

I'm sure Foc'sle Follies will be a causualty soon, too...for offending.  Good thing to know the Yamoto was sunk in '45.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Ev'ry last one of 'em.

xformed said...

Proving the unreported.  Well, it works well if no one challenges it.  Also, wasn't there some contreversy as to how "sexual assualt" in surveys a few years back was counted?  Didn't harsh words to a female fall under that category, and not something where hands were laid on, or illegal orders were given, or actual documented cases of evaluations being intentionally lowered because of same?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

A sure sign there's way too damned many and too many without the guts to stand tall.

Curtis said...

You know elliptical?  We worked for the embassy and Fargo and MAJ GEN Bolden who showed up in response to an ND of a SAW.  Not one of mine.  Rounds went into the airport over there. And of course NCWG1, NOLA etc.

There's a whole navy that the navy didn't ever deal with or deploy with or see much.  They see them every day now but that didn't used to be the case.

Not me.  Me and mine would invite all of them to get lost.

Curtis said...

CBs there in support of EASTERN CASTLE.

Grumpy Old Ham said...

<span>Unfortunately the thought police have carried some very simple principles out to the nth degree</span>

Indeed.  This thought process is yet another example of the zero-defect mentality, as codified in the logic of "If we just have enough rules, no one will ever need to think or use judgement again."

Other examples of this disorder (inside and outside of DoD) left as an exercise for the reader.

Curtis said...

I was XO of a tac mobile unit.  I don't know what your problem is.  Is it that my Naval Academy CHOP won her law suit to stay in the navy inspite of provably being a lesbian?  It was before my time. Is it that the girl screwed every single male she could at Camp Snoopy?  Not my fault.  Is it that female CB officers at 1NCD West related stories of Cargo Handling female officers to me?
You learn the limits in these sort of situations.  There is nothing in the UCMJ that forbids a girl from screwing every single person outside one's chain of command.  Inside the command....oh yeah.  Outside...zilch.  One does one's best but sometimes the rules get in the way.  I think you all know where I stand with regard to the rules and the way.  It was SILENT ASSURANCE and we got a NUC out of it.  It was the first time I met Maj General Bolden who came ashore to delve into the mystery of the ND SAW rounds fired at the host nations only airport.  Not any of mine of course.

Curtis said...

Yes sir but I saw my counterpart for 3 years who spent 99% of his time responding to taskers from 2 fleet, JFCOM, FFC, NECC whereas I spent my days totally ignored by 3rd flt and PACFLT.   I prepared a brief, maybe once or twice a year for FFC or C3F.  When I called my counterpart 80% of the time he was out of the office delivering a brief.  I never got to do that.  I delivered briefs in our conference room to the 4 stars that dropped in or was in Korea..

3rd fleet used to call me up and ask as did Airpac.  Surfpac never called.

and, there is a HUGE difference between LANT and PAC fleet.

Curtis said...

It is using the word sex in relation to assault.  Girls want sex.  Deciding that sex = crime is the problem.  Give all the girls knives or 9 mm pistols and stop pissing around that sex = assault.  Leave dead bodies in the wake of assault.  I know girls.  They can do it.

CDR Salamander said...

Ungh.  Curtis.  Strike one.  Mefixie UNC.

Curtis said...

It hangs on my living room wall and has since my wife bought it.

Curtis said...

guys want me to get kicked out for like, you know, observing that such a thing happens.  Must not mention some stuff.  I forget which but I'm so not mentioning it.

cdrsalamander said...

Dude,
I work for a living and have a family.  Help a brother out a little.

Curtis said...

Well, they are cute.  :)

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, Sounds like after my time.  In my experience, working up LANTFLT and a PACFLT battle groups in the late 90s, there was essentially no difference between the two in terms of interaction with the ATGs, TYCOMS, and the 2nd and 3rd FLT staffs.  They all irritated me equally.

Curtis said...

my apologies.  It's the language we use in the fleet but probably best not used here, as you say.

I wonder.

Do you and your loyal readers ever peer into the interstices?

You do the one, occassionally, on Thursday.  I really cannot comment.

When you pry into the gap what do you find?   Is it simply the worst leadership the navy ever had or something else?  May one express oneself freely?

C-dore 14 asked me about my command solution to the problem that I laid out in girl talk.  It was girls that brought it to my attention and I have no problem with using any word one can find in any dictionary.

Still, you agreed to let me abide if I played by your rules and I shall.

C-dore 14 said...

Curtis, Sorry.  I assumed from the tone of your post that you were upset by their behavior.  If you weren't then doing nothing is one COA.

C-dore 14 said...

They still do those things?

CDR Salamander said...

Part 1:  Now that I clearned up after Curtis ....

Anon,
Welcome to the blogosphere and joining us from a DOD IP address via in the DC area.  Glad to see you are taking out time from work to spend some time on my blog.

This is a blog - a blog from the "front porch" genre.  This is not a professional publication, journal, ezine or anything else.  Look at the sub-title to this post if you have any question that this blog pretends to be anything other than what it is - a bunch of folks hanging out on my front porch.

We do not have memory holes we throw things down.  We talk clearly to each other as adults without guile do.  We respond to absurdity by being absurd.  We respond to intellectual fascists by striking where they are weakest - usually their intelligence and/or insecurities.  We often use loaded cultural references to gain a readers attention towards larger issues.  Thank you for validating a blog model that has worked quite well for six years.  I hope you stay and read for a few weeks and add to the discussion.  Now to your points.

First: I don't know if they do to you - but WUBA is something still talked about by people, unlike me, who went to boat school.  As a matter of fact, it was introduced to me by a female graduate of one of the first co-ed classes at USNA.  She uses it to describe some of her female classmates who earned the description by their bahavior.  She is one of the best officers of her year group in her designator and is a very close friend to this day.  If the term is good engough for her - and my JOs earlier this decade who used it - then it is good enough for this blog.  If you are offended by DNA, then I don't know what I can do for you.  I relish the differences between men and women both great and small.  To ignore them is to ignore reality.  We are adults, we should act like it.  Also - if you have a better way of addressing issues - then please do in comments here or better yet, if titles bother you - get your own blog.

CDR Salamander said...

Part 2: Second: It is also proven that sexual assault statistics vary greatly depending on how you define sexual assault.  We also know, USNA has legion of examples, that there is a lot of false claims of sexual assault.  I also served with females my entire career.  You have your statistics - I have a couple of decades experience 24/7 in close quarters from O1-O5.  Do we have a problem with sexual assault?  Sure.  We also have a problem with theft and corruption.  Do they come from cheerleaders and Hooters Girls?  No - if they did sexual assaults would surround high school football stadiums and riverine locations that serve oysters.

Third:  How much time have you spent around 18-25 year old men who have spent most of the last few years deployed away from this country and in combat for a year at a time?  Men who like football and miss being men?  Just because a abnormal minority does not like something because they are saddled with their own insecurity about their physical appearance and are warped by their own sexual disfunction, does not mean we have to punish the majority because they are normal.  Normal people are not threatened by cheerleaders and girls serving hot wings.

Fourth:  In my experience, the largest problem with pregnancy and prostitution is a fear of word getting out - or having a hot-line complaint filed for selective prosecution.  Both derive from a lack of top-cover.

Fifth: The P4 was written in fear.  I am just old enough, that I remember as a MIDN strippers at the O-club in VA Beach and NAS Jax - not to mention what happened overseas.  A Flag Officer is many years senior than I am.  He should know the attitude towards women is much better now than it was - but he also lives in fear.  He knows that with the rudder command given by the CNO, if he does not go "high-and-right" he opens HIMSELF up to professional danger.  This is CYA - CYA on the back of Sailors who have a much healthier attitude towards women than any Flag Officer's year group.  Perhaps there is some projection going on here.  That - and agenda steered statisitics.

I am sorry you are disappointed - I write differently at USNIBlog and BigPeace and Midrats is different as well - as they are different venues for different angles on issues.  CDRSalamander is my front porch and free swim.  I always welcome corrections to factual errors - but I don't throw things down memory holes or refuse to address issues because they make others uncomfortable.

CDR Salamander said...

Guest,
Like Anon - glad you are joining me via a DC DOD IP address.

You clearly do not read this blog much - because from the start I have been exceptionally pro-women in the Navy - as I have two decades serving with them, including in combat.  If I was anti-women - then I woulldn't have given women competitive #1 rankings on evals and fitreps.

Reading your comment a couple of times, I would thing that our venn diagrams overlap about 85% if you took time to not to try to place me in one of your stereotypes of men in the service.  Hey, I actually support gays serving openly too ... in case you were wondering.

The P4 gets the rating because I have sat in the same briefings you have.  I have been forced to listen to people who have no idea what it is like serving for months at at time - 24/7 with mixed-gender UIC.  I have seen people forced to accept bad science and statistics because they had no choice.  I have been told that to speak up is to be professionally destroyed.  I have released messages after being told that the originator thought it was BS but it had to go to keep the beast fed.

If you don't get the connection between the P4 and the poster then you don't get the "throw the virgin in the volcano" logic that is going on in the fleet.  You don't know the fear professionals feel when they know that something unrelated to anything they see can still destroy them.  They lash out at everything in an attempt to protect themselves from any smear.  That is sad.

Wood floats.  Witches float.  Witches must be made of wood.  The only way to know if a person is a witch is to see if they float, and if they do then see if they burn.  If they burn they are a witch.  If they are not a witch - God will protect them and they won't burn.

See - it is all logical.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

Anon,

"<span>I've seen better and expect more."</span>

Precisely how I feel about senior Navy leadership.  This, what Sal has posted about, and the diversity, and the exclusionary racial and ethnic discrimination, it is all crap.  CRAP. 

I hear that the Navy's job is no longer to fight, that it is a "global force for good".  Mention Warrior Ethos and be shouted down as anathema.  I witnessed a conversation at the NWC this weekend where a SWO was referred to by a SUPO as "being one of the killers".  He protested vehemently that he was no such thing.

I despise that.  He and every other SWO, and aviator, and anyone else who has chosen to defend freedom better damned sure be a killer.  But instead they recoil at the term, refuse to understand that fighting for one's country entails very possibly killing as well as dying.  Yet, senior leaders de-emphasize that, to the point where I see little by way of fight or fire in many of what have become very sanitary technicians.

The feminizing of the men and masculinizing of the women of our society, and of the Armed Forces in particular, will leave us with an amalgam of androgenous and passive lemmings unable to withstand, let alone thrive in, the fires of combat.  This latest bit of nonsense is another step on that path. 

Admiral Aucoin and the juniors need to grow a pair of seeds and let the CNO know that their focus is on combat training and material readiness.  If that causes them to be fired, so be it.  They have a moral and professional obligation to do so.  But instead we have this.

Redeye80 said...

Kill is a kill.  You either win or die.  Pretty simple stuff.  Who cares if it is "sporting."

C-dore 14 said...

DB, Doubt that he would have hung out with FADM King (a fairly accomplished womanizer) or FADM Halsey (well known for his "steaming" antics) either.

Casey Tompkins said...

Yeah, yeah, I know; "dead, white, European males..." Feh.

Casey Tompkins said...

I kinda like Yellow Rose and Avenging Angel myself... :)

Curtis said...

its actually the only COA.

Curtis said...

 Phib came through for you shy guys.  He redacted adult conversation so that you would be less shy and retiring.  Did not change the meaning or the content of the posts.

What do you want to tell me?  Did you ever go camping with girls in deuce and a halfs and five tons in 20 man tents?  With 30 KW generators?

Did you ever demand to know why your Commodore would not let you select the very best, even if they were girls to go with you on an IRT to a desert island?  Nothing sexual there, some girls were way the best at certain surveillance things.

Watching you guys today....Byron et al,  oh well, made a deal with phib.  I'm gonna be polite.  But seriously dudes, I'm telling mom!?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

You called it, Commodore. 

William Halsey and Ernie King are exactly the kind of officers we DON'T need in our Navy today!  After all, they weren't even a global force for good, unless you count defeating the Axis.

Anonymous said...

I actuyally have read your blog for some time, and I didn't disagree with the stupidity of the P4.  I question whether that poster was the cause.  I generally don't get wound up about stuff like that, been around a while ahve lived through much, much worse and actual environments where I was unwelcome because of being female.  Their problem, not mine is how I look at it.   My point was you start of a rant about a male flag's overreaction by implying women had directly caused it  and using derogatory terms.  I strongly object to your opening salvo through "<span>Usually divorced once or twice, or never married - few if any children. Never quite look comfortable in ill-fitting khakis bought 15 lbs ago, and make no effort to go to a tailor to get a proper set made. </span>
<span>
</span><span>There is only one thing they hate more than the fact they were born XX - the fact that some XX are more interesting to XY than they are - some XX like looking that way ... and they hate to be reminded of it."   </span>

<span></span>
<span></span>

LT B said...

" And if you think all victims (and there is an increase in male victimes) are lying you would be wrong - that number is less than 5%  Read that again - over 95% of the time the victim is telling the truth."  Hogwash!  Find me the reference.  There was a female cop that quoted something like 2 or 3 percent while on the stand and everybody quoted it.  When it was chased down and rigorous study was applied, it was found she made that one up.  As I went to court to fight my own false assault claim, my support team dug that up through a bit of scholastic integrity.  I have seen four cases of false rape/assault claims in the Navy.  All affected the male's careers and lives in a negative fashion.  So, if you would, chase down your "less than 5% claim."  When they put the girls from the USAFA on the detector due to inconsistencies, as many as 25% end up recanting their stories of rape and assault. 

Thanks for playing.

cdrsalamander said...

Thank you for being a regular reader guest (if you are going to comment - you need to pick a good name or sump'n) - and we won't know if that poster was part or the only issue.  What we do know is that a command environment was created that caused professionals with no act or implication of sexism to have their display of honorable Navy history removed and deemed offensive, when any clear thinking mind can see that it is not.  That is a warning sign of many.  This post only represents a portion of the emails I received, unrelated to each other, over the last week on this subject.

As for your objection of my description - that was not directed at you - but was a highly accurate description of some of the females I have worked with who were consistently walking around with a chip on their shoulders about being female and making life difficult for the men and women that they worked with - the vast majority which after 5 minutes of duty you don't know or care if they are female, both of you are too busy - as it should be.

That description was not for all women and it wasn't written that way.  One thing it is - it is accurate through direct observation.  

I also stand by the fact that "women" did cause the Flag's overreaction.  A small woman or gaggle of such, whose job it is to feed the flames of gender politics.  Their job BA/NMP would not exist without it.  They would not get contract from the government without it.  Members of Congress lean on the uniformed military to speak in the gender-grievance lobby's diktat.  That, Shipmate, is also fact.

Facts can sometimes be uncomfortable - but they are what they are.

LT B said...

If you read The Bible According to Mark Twain, you will see a portion, as I recall, written by the editor.  He mentions the pencil drawings of Eve nude on a rock and how they were castigated and marked as deplorable by some librarian.  That was, of course, after months of "close scrutiny"  :) 

cdrsalamander said...

Andrew,
Actually, perhaps this instead?

LT B said...

The "victim" of the Navy's most widely publicized case of "sexual assault" died the other day.  May the good Lord keep her from the rest of the Sailors in heaven.  :)   God Bless her.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37863636/ns/us_news-life/

Spade said...

Hell, they NAVY owns them. I've seen at least 5 copies of that poster or similar in Navy office buildings. And not in somebody's office but displayed in the hallways as art.

This is no different than Iranians taking famous artwork and painting over all the women in it.

MarkT said...

the Lantflt guys (me) were only better at ASW due to proximity of opportunity (the Russians liked to come to AFWTF to play).  Yeah the topside looking pretty was a b*tch in winter though...

MarkT said...

The silver star in question was his collar device...

Byron said...

They still love pretty topsides...not so much the part that lets air out and water in though...

C-dore 14 said...

MarkT, You're right there.  Spent my first four sea tours in PACFLT and it wasn't until my XO tour and my 6th deployment that I had any interaction with Soviet submarines.

BTW, you haven't had a "winter preservation challenge" until you've served in a ship based in Newport. ;)

xformed said...

It all depends on what "good" means... :)

ActusRhesus said...

I have that poster right next to my poster of rosie the riviter.  Here's the thing.  Anyone who thinks sexual discrimination doesn't exist in the fleet is a lunatic.  I have certainly experienced it.  But by wasting our time on things that at the end of the day don't really matter...cheerleaders, posters, pr0n in the chief's head...we ignore the real "under the radar" discrimination that goes on every day.  Trust me, it's out there.

Kristen said...

AR, you and I differ on women in combat and probably a few other things as well, but I respect your opinion and I was hoping you would offer a comment.

Kristen said...

LT B, wow.  I hadn't heard that AFA stat about recanting the allegations before.  I hope it's true, because it really bothered me to think that that was happening there.

UltimaRatioRegis said...

AR,

Sexual discrimination does indeed exist in the fleet.  In fact, it's command mandated.

<span><span>NAVADMIN 226/10</span></span>

Andrewdb said...

I too was waiting for your take on this.  Thanks.

C-dore 14 said...

AR, Think that you're on target.  These folks deal with trivial things because they can put out a message and convince themselves that things are changing.  Bet all those pictures will be gone by the next time RADM Thomas gets around to going down to the waterfront.  The "under the radar stuff"...well, that's hard and dealing with them takes time, thought, and the results of one's actions may not be so readily apparent.

C-dore 14 said...

One last comment about the message...I'm curious about what the Flag Sec and the COS did to try and keep the Admiral from flying off the handle in print like this.  Even the posters here who clearly support his viewpoint seem to acknowledge that his reaction is over the top.  One of the jobs of the personal staff is to protect the Admiral when his emotions are getting the better of him.  The tone of this message is what I would expect following a major accident that was due to negligence...what's he going to do when that happens?

Maybe the personal staff fully agrees with his reaction and his tone.  Maybe they've tried to protect the Admiral before and failed in the process.  In either case I think it's going to be a long couple of years at good old SURFLANT.

Therapist1 said...

If I were on ship, could I hang a hooters calendar next to a Chip-N-Dale calendar for gender sensitivity?

surfnuccpo said...

You know, I showed this article to my wife (who is also a CPO) and she looked at me and said "When will it end?"  This is NOT the same Navy I joined over 20 years ago.  I am all for preventing sexual assualt and punishing those who commit such an act, but to make the Navy completely sterile is not going to accomplish anything.  I remember several times that NFL cheerleaders would come out to official functions...so what?  They are cheerleaders, not strippers.  I am not sure what direction the Navy's leaders want to go these days, but I don't think I want to be a part of it anymore.  I love the Navy and taking care of Sailors is what caused me to come back to sea for another go, but we seem to have lost the big flick.  Too many Admirals, not enough leaders. 

Spamalot said...

If the brass wants a change, then make it so.  He obviously saw something that upset him enough to send the P4.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and ensure that I fall in line.  If I had the ability to spin up the fleet overtime I saw something I didn't like, no one would get any "actual" work done.

Guest said...

I have always wondered where bad policy comes from, then I ran into your reply. It comes from people like you.

cdrsalamander said...

It won't end until we have leaders who are willing to stand up for their Navy and the inherent goodness of its Sailors.  The reason it won't end is that there is an entire industry that makes millions off of taking a legitimate issue - in this case sexual assault that takes place in every aspect of our society - and churns it into something that their speeches, agenda, and PPT preserntations can fix.  Look at the millions spewn around as described in the Fowler report.

What can help though is good female leaders, like your wife, calling senior leaders on the carpet for supporting such grievance industry programs and listening to a few bitter women who claim to speak for servicewomen.  They don't - people like your wife do, and should.

bubblehead said...

What is happening to my Navy?!?!

Grandpa Bluewater said...

Bubblehead:

Our Navy no longer exists, except for a few isolated outposts of competence in a howling wilderness of what is now.

What is now?  Continuing accelerating across the board decline.  "Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad".


But hey, I could be wrong; grumpy old men often are.  And all the many, many flag officers say it's the best it has ever been.  They should know, right?

UltimaRatioRegis said...

YOUR Navy? 

Unless you are a member of a politically favored racial, enthic, gender, or (coming soon) sexual preference interest group, this is NOT "your Navy". 

Ask Admiral Roughead, if he isn't gone to a NNOA, or Latina, or Women's Issues, or Diversity Directorate meeting.

surfnuccpo said...

Agree wholeheartedly.  Problem is that there are fewer and fewer of those available and the actions like this are making them increasingly harder to find.  Too much focus on the small stuff.  Not enough on the things that could really make a difference.  It's getting harder and harder because the "Leaders" are making drivel like this their "Priority".  When we had a diversity presentation at my last command, I was sitting next to a female MCPO, who happened to be a minority also.  While the speaker was spewing diversity this and that, I commented to her "Look around us....we ARE diverse!"  After looking in the crowd and seeing what I was saying, she totally agreed with me.  We don't need an industry to make it so.  It already is.  At least in the Enlisted ranks.  I think the reason the Admirals all talk about it is because they, as a whole, are not diverse.  Look here http://www.navy.mil/navydata/bios/bio_list.asp  Just looking through the "A"s, 5 of 6 are white males.  There is plenty of diversity in the Junior Officers ranks.  If the brass would stop trying to force it and just let it happen naturally, it would.  They should focus on the things that can make the Navy great again, like shipbuilding, maintenance, readiness, manpower, etc.

Anonymous said...

...had heard that also found offending were a mural of a monkey holding its tail in an "awkward" position and magazines in the workspaces.

Could be seen as demeaning and harassing, not conducive to unit cohesion?

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